The N word

[ycartrob]

I am facilitating a peacemaking circle this Monday about the use of the N word in rap music. The teens in our program don't have a problem with it, however, some of our employees (black and white) do. I found this interesting web site that is striving to abolish the accepted use of the N word (the N word is nigger, or any variation  ie  niggah'). Here's a link to their web site and a portion of their mission statement. Anyone care to comment? I agree with their stance on the use of the N word.

http://www.abolishthenword.com/homepage.htm

As a small group of Brooklynites who grew up during the original old school era of hip hop, we remember when rap songs never used the "N" word or profanity for that matter. We remember referring to our friends as homeboy and home girl. And we were still cool. We remember the airing of "Roots" and the sting of hearing the "N" word on national television for the first time. Now we ask ourselves what happened. What happened in our community that the "N" word is tossed around freely in everyday language? When the use of it makes you cool, down, accepted.

Our community has come full circle as we extend an invitation to others to call us the "N" word as well and we answer with a smile. Our ancestors must be rocking in their graves. The "N" word is not a term of endearment. It cannot be reapropriated. We cannot redefine the "N" word or re-spell it to make it positive. Racism is so subtle, we now think that we can embrace the "N" word and take away its power. However, not enough time has passed for this concept to be effective. The word is viewed as a racial slur at large, it will continue to be so until it is put away for a generation, and then maybe it can be embraced at such time in a historical context.

Until the pain of this word no longer lingers in society for any of us, we cannot continue to use the "N" word. Every time we use the "N" word it is a slap in the face of our elders and a blatant disrespect to our ancestors. We have not only lost our minds, but we've lost consciousness.

The dependency of this word as a greeting, to complete sentences and start conversations is a total disregard for every movement that gave us the many freedoms we enjoy today. This site is our answer to a call to duty. We now challenge you to make a personal commitment and join us in the movement to abolish the "N" word.

[Jellyfish]

I find it ironic that the very people that were offended by that word when I was growing up are using it more freely than it ever was then.I guess it's ok as long as a white person doesn't say it.

[ycartrob]

I find it ironic that the very people that were offended by that word when I was growing up are using it more freely than it ever was then.I guess it's ok as long as a white person doesn't say it.

I don't think the same people who were offended by the N word are the same one's using it today.

[marktwain]

There's a really excellent book on the topic by Randall Kennedy.

I think use of the word may be appropriate in certain contexts.  But being a cracker, I don't think it's my place to say.

I don't allow the kids in my library to call each other that word, not only because it is offensive to some bystanders, but because it is used as an insult more often than not.

[wellfleet]

tracy, i don't know if you have time to look into this but the FX channel aired an incredible series about race relations called Black/White. It was co-produced by Ice Cube. two families, one white, one black, shared a home and each family was transformed, with the aid of some incredible make-up artists, into members of the other race. they then experienced some things as black and white. one episode dealt directly with the use of nigger as a greeting versus its use as a racial slur.
some black people went on to explain that by taking back the power of the word nigger, they are negating its effect as a slur and an insult. they also said that this was only acceptable among black people and that a white person, who hadn't suffered through the pain inflicted by the word, was therefore not allowed to use it.
there was an absolutely harrowing scene where the black teenage boy (who came into the class in "white face") was taking an etiquette class in Bel air and said he didn't mind the use of nigger so the teenage boys started acting like a bunch of hip-hop morins calling each other and him my nigger... it was just terrible...

personally, i find the word offensive and i don't think it can ever not be offensive, no matter how much time has passed or how many advances black people have made in north america. i would never ever call a black friend a nigger even if we'd been friends forever. some of my jewish friends would call each other kike or yid as a joke to mimic the use of nigger. i think it's just super-super clever and funny  :P until some asshole who isn't jewish or black calls you that same racial slur.

also... look at the word "bitch". there was a time where that was a terrible thing to call a woman and now women use it routinely, both as put-downs and terms on endearment. as women. thing is, i can say to my girlfriend "come here, bitch" and it would be fine but if my husband told me i was a bitch i would be really hurt...

the point is, i think, to look at the intent as much as the word. i understand why people would want to abolish the use of nigger, but i can also see how removing the word's power makes it useless for people who use it with hateful intentions. by making a mockery of the term instead of it remaining taboo, it becomes meaningless.

remember that part of Freakonomics about the guy who infiltrated the KKK and had their secret codes and words used in cartoons? it took away their menacing tone...

[EC]

i hate that word.  i hate it in all contexts.  but, i understand the impetus behind reappropriation, but i don't think it makes it meaningless.  and i don't think we should make it meaningless.  we're so apt to forget about horrors and that's why a lot of history keeps repeating itself.  when i hear the n word i hear the history of it.  even when people use it as a term of friendship.  i think about where it came from and what it once meant, and it makes me think about how shit like that can't happen anymore.  i think we need to be reminded of things - it's like how mothers brains over time forget the pain of childbirth so that they'll have more babies.  we forget about how painful certain relationships were, we forget about the immediacy of terror we felt when 9/11 was happening and the only thing that will keep those memories fresh is to make sure that we think about that stuff all the time, and i think that's one thing that the n word can do - remind us how we can't, can NOT repeat the same mistakes.  we're supposed to remember what we've learned.

[wellfleet]

that's a really good point EC. i am pretty lucky to have never experienced the kind of racism that black people have experienced in the US. i think that older black people, in their 40s and up, don't use "nigger" in conversation because they know what it's like to have that hurled at you like a dagger... black teenagers (and this is what the kid's father tells him on the Black/White show) haven't had to experience as much oppression, so they don't understand the weight of the word.
ultimately, it's just really crass...

[Jellyfish]

I don't think the same people who were offended by the N word are the same one's using it today.

I think you know what I meant,let me rephrase...the same race of people. ;)

[Jellyfish]

And I HATE that word and cringe whenever I hear ANYONE use it.

[MMJ_fanatic]

I see it as a measure of the (low) intellect of the individual using the word--regardless of their race.

[wellfleet]

i have the worst internal potty mouth and i know that i, for one, would look down on people who swear excessively or gratuitously, i think of them as less intelligent and less capable of proper self-expression... so i try not to swear in good company.
it does say a lot about people who choose to use that word.

[Coltrane]

Wittgenstein would say that it's all about the definitions used by those individuals using the word. So, if two guys (or girls) understand the meaning of the word in the same way, in the same context, then they are speaking the same language and can justify it. If someone from the outside comes along and uses the word but is not clued in on the definintions and meanings of the first two, they will never understand each other.

Richard Pryor stop using the word, not necessarily because he thought the word was wrong to use, but the collective definition of the word used by the outside world (outside his group/audience) was negative and he no longer wanted to contribute to the negative perceptions being bandied about by the white upper class.

none of this makes sense.


ass. ass. penis. ass.

[ratsprayer]

Wittgenstein would say that it's all about the definitions used by those individuals using the word. So, if two guys (or girls) understand the meaning of the word in the same way, in the same context, then they are speaking the same language and can justify it. If someone from the outside comes along and uses the word but is not clued in on the definintions and meanings of the first two, they will never understand each other.

that's just about what i think.  it's just words, people, letters put together in an organised fashion, but the intent behind the word is the most important thing.  sure, i completely understand that the older folks wouldn't want to use it or hear it, but the younger people see it as a term of endearment and comradery, so guess what, they're not using it with the intent of slurring each other.  that doesnt' make it right, it makes it it.  (how's that for zen?)

i don't consider myself racist because i hate everyone equally.  i tend to base my opinions of people not on skin colour, but attitude, behaviour, and respect (or lack thereof) for other people.  

[Jaimoe]

I do find the word appropriate in Patti Smith's angry "Rock and Roll Nigger" even though it still makes me cringe when I listen to the song.

[marktwain]

the younger people see it as a term of endearment and comradery, so guess what, they're not using it with the intent of slurring each other.  

In some cases, yes.  But I hear the word every day used by one young African-American to insult another.  To me, that's sad.

[Jaimoe]

In some cases, yes.  But I hear the word every day used by one young African-American to insult another.  To me, that's sad.

Sad yes, and it also infuriates people like Spike Lee, Bill Cosby and Chuck D (to name a few) too.

[banjohead]

All this... ugh.

It is the biggest double-standard of all time. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with race, but it is pretty rediculous. They get their own word which we can't use. They get a national holiday, an entire month. They get affirmative action. If white people had their own word or a million man march or a "white appretiation month" we would be labeled as extreme racists. I understand that it is all because of civil rights and making up for the horrible past african americans had to suffer, but I think it is time that we all just shut the fuck up and live with what we have become. Things will continue to progress and change, but things will always digress as well. It is the paradox of life. If another race wants to use a word, let them. Just don't use it yourself. That is all you can really do, even though it is a hypocritical mess.
To the thread starter.. I respect what you are doing and appretiate it, because it is for the youth. You are definately on the right track, in my opinion, by getting to the youth. Change the youth, you change the future.

I know this post will probably come off as racist to some people, but please beleive me when I say, I hold no judgements by race. I respect every singular person in every race until they give me a reason not to. It is just the double-standard that gets me.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

They get their own word which we can't use. They get a national holiday, an entire month. They get affirmative action

"they"??  

[ycartrob]

banjo, your comments do come across as racist (or perhaps not thought out). "They"? "They" get their own word we can't use? Who the hell do you think made that word up? And you know what? You can use that word (and it sounds like you're upset b/c you can't).

And tell me what entire month is a national holiday? Do you know what a national holiday is?

I see both sides of affirmative action. However, you can't enslave a race of people for a couple of hundred years and expect that race to overcome slavery from a couple of decades of equal rights.

I find it very hard to believe you "hold no judgements about race".

I didn't set this thread up to bash anyone, these are just my thoughts and opinions and I have to disagree with some of your points and yes, your tone comes across as racist (or thoughtless).

[ratsprayer]

enslavement or genocide.....minorities in this country have always been treated so well.  

slavery was horrible.  no doubt about that, but at least a huge attempt wasnt made to wipe them out completely and steal their land.