Ted Nugent on 'The Summer of Drugs' ???

[mjkoehler]

I tend to agree more with what Tracy said. I see both sides and understand where everyone is coming from. I hate seeing stories of someone sliding out of control due to their addictions. But I also look and see what the world would miss of some people didn't imbibe to open up something in their heads (music, lit, art)

With that said. I hate the Nuge (other then his playing). To me he is a shameless self promoting ass clown. I do not agree with his stance on many things, more specificaly gun control, Bush, and the War. I do appreciate his stance on the meat industry as it is a pretty scary disgusting place and we really should be eating organic meat.

[ratsprayer]

i think most everyone here has good points.  in excess anything is bad.  some people can handle it, some people can't.  even with weed, it can become a serious addiction as i know from personal experience.  it's not the drug's fault, it's the user's.  to broadly classify all drug users as the culprit for all of society's problems shows a true lack of intelligence in the nuge.  i tend to be an extremist on a few issues especially politics, but in the past few months i've opened my eyes to see that not all conservatives (or republicans or whatever you want to call them) are bad.  hell, ron paul has become my motherfuckin' hero, and he's a straight republican.  that man deserves his own thread, but overall, broad generalisations don't get anyone anywhere.  (isn't that a broad generalisation in itself?)

[EC]

I declare this summer:

The Summer of Tom

you said that last summer.  how many summers of tom do we gotta endure? ;)

[ratsprayer]

I declare this summer:

The Summer of Tom

you said that last summer.  how many summers of tom do we gotta endure? ;)

how about The Summer of What-Not

????????????????

[ycartrob]

rats, did you not never respond to my thread I created in your honor?

http://www.mymorningjacket.com/cgi-local/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1182707750

you had better, or you'll face the wrath of the Bear Butte Woodchuck

[ratsprayer]

rats, did you not never respond to my thread I created in your honor?

http://www.mymorningjacket.com/cgi-local/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1182707750

you had better, or you'll face the wrath of the Bear Butte Woodchuck

i never had any idea how to respond to that thread.   :-[ :-[

also, "not never" is a double negative.  please refrain from such grammatical mistakes, or you'll face the wrath of the grammar police.  

[tomEisenbraun]

I'm absolutely sick of hearing that people who change their mind on things or are considered "flip floppers" are bad people.  If you get new information on something that could change the way you interpret the knowledge you have, why the hell is it so wrong to change your mind on what you believe?  The extremists are fucked, IMO, as the needs of the people tend to lay in the middle.  To steadfastly believe in something to the point that you deny the fact that what is considered to be "the truth" can change is just sickening to me.  It's a tool to manipulate people to think they are weak if they question the actions or beliefs of their leaders.  Fuck that!  *steps off soapbox*

That would be what I learned in Philosophical Logic class to be a slippery slope argument. Or perhaps a straw man--setting up the other side with a stance so terrible that it morally and logically appeals to go with the alternative, however unfair the persuasion might be towards. Little bit of both maybe?

Heres the deal: You aren't a bad person for changing your mind when you get new information about something that affects the way you understand the topic. If I heard that the Nazis were an amazing crew of people who were out to build the biggest and most powerful nation and had some of the most brilliant advances in technology and were all about loyalty to the country of Germany, I being a German would have to say, "hey these guys are alright with me". If after that I found out about what they did to the Jews, the Poles, the Gypsies, et. al. I would be disgusted and infuriated and my entire opinion about the people would drastically change. Anything wrong with that? I don't think so.

Another situation. Say I knew all the facts behind what went down at WWII in Nazi Germany, and with every ounce of my soul hated the crimes against humanity committed in the name of seeking racial perfection. Now say I was approached by an old WWII Nazi who still believed in everything he did back then, and he looked as though he'd slit my throat if I disagreed even mildly with him. Suppose I changed everything I believed in so that I'd come off better in his eyes "Yeah, I see what you guys mean about those Jews..." and whatnot. THAT. That I have a problem with.

I didn't mean in my first post that I want to see people aligned so far left or so far right and be so committed to it. Good lord, that'd screw everybody up who didn't know where they stood on big things. I've got a problem with flip-floppers who change so they appeal to whichever audience they're in front of. If you're in the wrong place, don't barge ahead and tell everyone they're wrong, but tell 'em what you stand for, and make a discussion about why they believe what they believe and why you do what you do. I don't think Nugent had any reason not to give his full opinion on the summer of love. It went down exactly the way it went down, no one can change that now. But a lot of people were unhappy with it, and I say legitimately. A lot of people have lost some serious brain matter on mind altering drugs since then.

As for the part I bolded in your part in this argument, Supernova,, I don't see where the Nuge denied any truth. Certainly he didn't like what was going on, but I don't believe he denied the truth. Maybe I'm an idiot and missed it, but I'm pretty sure he had legitimate reasons, even if he glossed em up a bit, for disliking that movement. As self-righteous as a bastard as he is, everyone deserves their own opinion. Everybody gets a part in this big play, and we aren't all gonna agree, but we can at least hear each other out.

I'm done.

And Tracy, I'm honored.

[EC]

i enjoyed reading that, tom.  i'm enjoying this discussion a lot.  it's making me rethink my stance on recreational drugs.  not change it, but rethink it.  clarify it.  

i'm glad that we're having a summer of tom (again), but can we have a summer of tom + drugs?

just kidding.

how about a summer of plugs?  it's been hard washing my face, lately...

[LizKing531]

Last Month's Playboy ran an article that interviewed the head Doc from the free-clinic in Haight -Ashbury during the Summer of Love.  That article (yes I read....some.....of the articles) is a must read on this subject.

It talks about how it all started in peace and love then led into the hard-core drug scene that quickly destroyed it.

For a modern-day example, one could look to the Phish scene several years back.  It was all fun and games and good times and lots of whatever, but sure as shit it went to hell.  The last Phish show in Indy ended with a whole slew of folks getting arrested for fights and something like 3 girls got raped.

Its called substance abuse for a reason.  Like the old saying "everything in moderation".  Once it goes to excess, the problems start.