Thoughts & Prayers for the people of Burma

[dragonboy]

Let's hope that the current protests in Rangoon don't become a repeat what happened in 1998.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011655.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1300003.stm

[BH]

Question:  If the Junta start attacking and killing what should we do?  And when I say "we", I mean the rest of the world, not just the US.  The US is a little busy right now so maybe somebody else can help out for a change?  We, the US, seem to fuck this shit up all the time anyway right, so who's it gonna be?  The UN will talk about it in meetings for several months while people die, but that's not really going to help much is it?  

(Sorry, mini-rant.)

I certainly don't have the answers for these global problems, but please, discuss.....


 

[The DARK]

Question:  If the Junta start attacking and killing what should we do?  And when I say "we", I mean the rest of the world, not just the US.  The US is a little busy right now so maybe somebody else can help out for a change?  We, the US, seem to fuck this shit up all the time anyway right, so who's it gonna be?  The UN will talk about it in meetings for several months while people die, but that's not really going to help much is it?  

(Sorry, mini-rant.)

I certainly don't have the answers for these global problems, but please, discuss.....


 

I respectfully disagree. Personally I think the US needs to spread out who it is helping. Sure, can't just abandon Iraq right this second, but remember how little we helped out Indonesia after the tsunami. If we spread our attention to people who aren't threatening to kill us, maybe we can get some support here. Only focusing on our enemies isn't the answer.

[bowl of soup]

Question:  If the Junta start attacking and killing what should we do?  And when I say "we", I mean the rest of the world, not just the US.  The US is a little busy right now so maybe somebody else can help out for a change?  We, the US, seem to fuck this shit up all the time anyway right, so who's it gonna be?  The UN will talk about it in meetings for several months while people die, but that's not really going to help much is it?  

(Sorry, mini-rant.)

I certainly don't have the answers for these global problems, but please, discuss.....


 

Let's see.  In 1988 "we" did...nothing.  Thousands of people are killed in various African locals yearly and "we" do...nothing.  Ask yourself one question - they got any oil there in Burma?  I believe you may be able to predict our response to even a mass slaying of monks based upon your response to that question.  Combine that with our growing fear of China.  I boldly predict that we do nothing even if they spray the crowds with gas and light a match.

[SMc55]

Let's hope that the current protests in Rangoon don't become a repeat what happened in 1998.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011655.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1300003.stm

Amen to that.

[aMD]

you know when bill clinton sent aid and relief to places like samalia (which has NO natural resources) he was attacked by liberals and conservatives alike. which is the reason he did not do anything about rwanda when he should have.  he has since said that was his worst failure as president. unfortunately I think these days missions like that cannot happen because of the so-called "war on terror" and because of the same political pressure clinton faced.  if bush moved into burma he would also be attacked by liberals and conservatives, we're already spread across the world, so chances are he's going to say fuck it.  

I do find it humorous that the same people that say we have no right to intervene in any other countries' matters (i.e. iraq) are the same people who flaunt "save tibet" bumper stickers.  What are we supposed to save them with bumper stickers and "good vibes"?

sorry, I usually don't post on the political threads.

*gets down off soapbox

[BH]

I just wish we could learn from history a little bit here.  I mean, they told me in 7th grade the reason we study history is to learn from it.   This situation happens time and time again.  We need to find a new approach, and I think the only thing that will work is if "we" as human beings, band together and create a worldwide peace keeping force that actually can get something done.  Am I too naive to think this could happen?  

[dragonboy]

Well we have the UN but they seem pretty helpless (useless?) in a lot of these kinds of situation, Rwanda for example.

[BH]

Well we have the UN but they seem pretty helpless (useless?) in a lot of these kinds of situation, Rwanda for example.

That's exactly what I keep thinking about.  They left them huddled together in one spot completely helpless in the middle of the night.   Just left them there to be slaughtered.  I'm sure their intentions were good, but once again the political bullshit keeps them from doing anything worthwhile.

[The DARK]

I just wish we could learn from history a little bit here.  I mean, they told me in 7th grade the reason we study history is to learn from it.   This situation happens time and time again.  We need to find a new approach, and I think the only thing that will work is if "we" as human beings, band together and create a worldwide peace keeping force that actually can get something done.  Am I too naive to think this could happen?  

No, this is our only real hope. We're going get to a point where one person or group of people can dominate everyone else without any input from the rest of the world. This is where pure capitalism and communism will take us. A world government with actual power is something that we really need more than anything.

Not to sound bombastic, but... ::)

[aMD]

I just wish we could learn from history a little bit here.  I mean, they told me in 7th grade the reason we study history is to learn from it.   This situation happens time and time again.  We need to find a new approach, and I think the only thing that will work is if "we" as human beings, band together and create a worldwide peace keeping force that actually can get something done.  Am I too naive to think this could happen?  

No, this is our only real hope. We're going get to a point where one person or group of people can dominate everyone else without any input from the rest of the world. This is where pure capitalism and communism will take us. A world government with actual power is something that we really need more than anything.

Not to sound bombastic, but... ::)

anyone else think war is a better alternative?

[dragonboy]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070926/tpl-uk-myanmar-43a8d4f_2.html

YANGON (Reuters) - Troops and riot police took up positions outside at least six big activist monasteries in Yangon on Wednesday as Myanmar's junta tried to prevent monks leading new protest marches against military rule, witnesses said...
...There was no immediate word from the monks on whether they would risk their first major confrontation with the junta by trying to march again despite fears of a repetition of the bloody end to a 1988 uprising, primarily in the Sule Pagoda area.

[Chills]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7013638.stm

"Several thousand Burmese monks and other protesters have been marching in Rangoon despite a bloody crackdown by police. One death is reported."

Also thought this was an interesting remark:

Aung Naing Oo, a former student leader who was involved in the 1988 uprising and who now lives in exile in the UK, believes the junta cannot stop the protesters.

"Nobody knew what was happening in 1988," he told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four. "There was only very little information about the killings. Now with the internet and the whole world watching I think its a totally different story... monks are highly revered in the country."

[dragonboy]

"Nobody knew what was happening in 1988," he told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four. "There was only very little information about the killings. Now with the internet and the whole world watching I think its a totally different story... monks are highly revered in the country."

Encouraging words but the Junta aren't about to change their stance or step down peacefully.

"UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown has called for a UN Security Council meeting on Burma within hours, with a view to sending an envoy to the country."

Looks like it's already too late?

[Chills]

"Nobody knew what was happening in 1988," he told the Today programme on BBC Radio Four. "There was only very little information about the killings. Now with the internet and the whole world watching I think its a totally different story... monks are highly revered in the country."

Encouraging words but the Junta aren't about to change their stance or step down peacefully.

Yeah, to react with violence is their only option if they want to stay in power. Apparently the junta believes in the impotence of the international community. At least they have to hope no one will react. There is no alternative for them.

Anyway, could someone (Bowl Of Soup, I believed you mentioned it briefly) explain the role, if any, China plays in this all? They are still permanent members of the UN Security Council and an enormous economic power. Critics blamed them for their role in the whole Sudan case. Is something similar going on here?

Man, I don't have a clue  :-/

[dragonboy]

Here you go Chills:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011746.stm

[Chills]

Here you go Chills:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011746.stm

Thanks DB, that was enlightening.

The China-Darfur situation and the China-Birma situation are indeed very similar. At least that's what I picked up from this article.

[BH]

a UN Security Council meeting on Burma within hours, with a view to sending an envoy to the country."

Looks like it's already too late?

Exactly!

It sounds like from the article I read, all the monks really wanted was to have some talks with the junta about some sort of reform.  Obviously the junta are too stubborn and now everyone will pay with lives.

[MarkW]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7016608.stm

This is very sad.  I loved visiting Burma, mostly for the people, but it's run by a bunch of scumbags.

The Shwedagon Paya is beautiful, and a real symbol of national pride for the Burmese on the street.  It's really upsetting to think of violent scenes in and around the area.  :(

[primushead]

Is it Burma or Myanmar?  It's Myanmar now isn't it?