fender amps question

[petemoss]

Hey all was just wondering if some of the ridiculously smart people on this board could help me out:

I am planning on a buying my first tube amp.
I have had my heart set on buying a fender hot rod deville 410.
but deep in my heart i know that this will be way too loud for my apartment, and while it will be fun for jamming, playing it in my place at fun volume is impossible.
So i was also looking at the fender hot rod deluxe. or maybe even the deville with the 2 12's...
Also I guess the fender blues deluxes could be good. if i can pick out a good fuzz/distortion pedal...
does anybody have any suggestions as to what i should go for?
I really need help deciding.
i think the hot rod deluxe would be nice, i just dont know if it is not as nice as the deville, or what to expect.

thanks guys, i really appreciate it...

[ItStillJaimoe]

It all comes down to what you want sound-wise and what you are planning on doing with the amp now and in the future. All the ones listed are good amps.

I bought a Fender Twin Reverb 1965 Reissue around 8 years ago and I barely use it because it's far too loud for my apartment or anyone's house. Even when jamming, I don't need an amp that loud (85-watt  two-speaker tube). Derek Trucks uses a 50-watt Fender Reverb (single speaker) when he plays clubs and not jamming with the Allmans and the amp suits him just fine. Plus, most places of a certain size will mic amps anyway, so volume doesn't matter too much. Also, any 50 watt amp will be loud enough for most clubs even when it isn't mic'd.

[petemoss]

It all comes down to what you want sound-wise and what you are planning on doing with the amp now and in the future. All the ones listed are good amps.

I bought a Fender Twin Reverb 1965 Reissue around 8 years ago and I barely use it because it's far too loud for my apartment or anyone's house. Even when jamming, I don't need an amp that loud (85-watt  two-speaker tube). Derek Trucks uses a 50-watt Fender Reverb (single speaker) when he plays clubs and not jamming with the Allmans and the amp suits him just fine. Plus, most places of a certain size will mic amps anyway, so volume doesn't matter too much. Also, any 50 watt amp will be loud enough for most clubs even when it isn't mic'd.

thanks man.
i guess what i should ask is:
i really like the hot rod deville, is the hot rod deluxe a big step down, or is it pretty similar?
i know it all comes down to personal opinion, i am just pretty uneducated when it comes to amps.

[ItStillJaimoe]

Ask a real music/guitar shop salesperson that question - make sure you tell him what you want volume and in-the-future wise. An honest place will not steer you wrong. I wish I knew more about what I really needed instead of buying a monster amp I never use. For me, a Fender Twin Reverb and a Reveb sound similar but the latter just isn't as loud.

[tomEisenbraun]

From experience, Fender loud is LOUD.

The 60 watts of either of the DeVilles will be way too powerful for your apartment, much less any smaller club.

I will make a suggestion rarely ever made in the world of musicians, but in all honesty, check out Peavey.

I played a Peavey Classic 410 a while ago running just my Tele through it, and it absolutely cranked, and did the exact thing an amp ought to do when you roll the volume knob back. It went from crunchy to smooth and clean. And if I just played the notes softer, it cleaned up very nicely and kept that great chimey tone that you'd expect out of an amp coated in that kind of tweed.

A couple hints.

4 speakers will be twice as loud as two speakers. However (and I found this pretty surprising) the 410 will sound not only fuller, but deeper as well. I've got a Peavey Delta Blues with a 15 inch speaker, and while my sound will shake your nuts, it's not exactly a really "filled out" sound. The 410 uses that smaller speaker to fit four speakers into one cab (it will also be a lot heavier than a 212, though) and allows you to get sound from a few different angles, which really deepens it in your ears. As for an apartment, you'll probably need to keep a 50 watter around 1. I keep my 30w on 1.5--2.5 unless all my neighbors' cars are gone.

If you'd like to get your tone a little bit better and louder for recording inside your apartment, I'd suggest checking out a 30 watt with 2 or 4 speakers. One is just fine, but I'd check and make sure it has an external speaker output, so you can hook up a 212 cab or a 410 cab to help get you fuller if you need it playing out. If you don't play out, don't sweat it. One speaker will suit you just fine, and 2 won't make it impossible to get your knob up a little higher in an apartment.

Another hint: Make sure that your clean stage is Class A and not A/B. Your gain stage will most likely be Class A/B, but if you've got good circuitry there's no reason it should be constrained.

[tomEisenbraun]

Way more info than you need on Class: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier#Power_amplifier_classes

A is a direct signal, with no artificial distortion. AB runs it somewhere between 50% and 100% and works to produce clipping to give it good gain without having to drive it from your amp's front end (meaning cranking it to eleven and playing really really hard).

Also, definitely don't be afraid to buy used on amps. Tube amps are built frickin solid, especially older ones. If you can score a five or ten year old Peavey Classic or Fender of some lower wattage, go for it. It's been broken in for you, and is working much better (and more reliably, I guarantee) than something you pick up from a shop--someone else has found all its flaws already and, if they are able to use it regularly, worked them out and gotten them fixed for you. Not a bad deal.

[tomEisenbraun]

It all comes down to what you want sound-wise and what you are planning on doing with the amp now and in the future. All the ones listed are good amps.

I bought a Fender Twin Reverb 1965 Reissue around 8 years ago and I barely use it because it's far too loud for my apartment or anyone's house. Even when jamming, I don't need an amp that loud (85-watt  two-speaker tube). Derek Trucks uses a 50-watt Fender Reverb (single speaker) when he plays clubs and not jamming with the Allmans and the amp suits him just fine. Plus, most places of a certain size will mic amps anyway, so volume doesn't matter too much. Also, any 50 watt amp will be loud enough for most clubs even when it isn't mic'd.

thanks man.
i guess what i should ask is:
i really like the hot rod deville, is the hot rod deluxe a big step down, or is it pretty similar?
i know it all comes down to personal opinion, i am just pretty uneducated when it comes to amps.

I haven't compared the two, but the Deluxe doesn't have an effects loop, which means trouble if you'd like to run a pedal board. Delay sounds terrible run into the front of an amp, especially with distortion, and most modulation effects have more dimension to them after the signal as well. I'd think hard about that one.

[EC]

From experience, Fender loud is LOUD.

from experience, fender quiet is loud. ;)

here's my two cents:  if you're just buying an amp to mess around in your house, i would get the little blues junior and buy some fun pedals.  even the bj (sorry, had to do that) is a loud little guy, and i remember i couldn't practise past one.  it's not a bad gig amp, either.  plus, you're always going to be able to resell a fender amp.  same with pedals if they're decent, so if you find you don't dig your setup, you can try again with something different.  if you're only gonna be playing at home, having a more powerful amp isn't really all that worth it because you won't get the awesome tone because you won't be able to turn 'er up.  

mmm fender amps are dreamy.

[Jaimoe]

Oh yeah, since my Fender is too loud, I bought a small practice amp. You may have to do the same.

[petemoss]

Thank you so much for your help guys.
I think I will probably go with the hot rod deluxe, and it actually does have an effects loop... Maybe the hot rod deville 212, but i doubt it - i think it will just be way to loud. I hope the hot rod deluxe will be loud enough for jamming/house party gigs. not what the headroom on that one is either...
I have been browsing used stuff, but don't have too many leads so far.
thanks for the help i appreciate it. i dont know very much about tube amps, and sites like harmony central can be VERY overwhelming...

[EC]

jaimoe you're back as jaimoe!

good luck petemoss - don't worry too much about your decision - like i said, you can always change it up - fenders are awesome that way.

[whyteand82nd]

Ha listen to Tom. He's the man. He gave me a shit ton of advice on getting my guitar

I will sex him one day.

[tomEisenbraun]

Ha listen to Tom. He's the man. He gave me a shit ton of advice on getting my guitar

I will sex him one day.

ummmmmmmm...ysplz?

Seriously though, you coming bowling Thursday?

[tower]

I've had a 65 Twin Reverb Reissue (incredible amp but too loud for most occasions), a Hot Rod Deville (before they were tube amps), and now have a Blues Junior which I really dig.

I've played outdoor and indoor gigs and not had to mic it so it's plenty loud enough and has great tone and the classic Fender Reverb. I've never been one to use effects loops on amps so in my opinion you can put your pedals in-line to the input and be just fine.  I'm running a Roto-vibe, a Wah, a Vibrato, and a Tube Screamer in my line and it works fine for me.  I've also run a Digital Delay pedal in-line in the past.

I'm also using this amp to record and it sounds great as well. Having said that I do love the DeVille and the Deluxe, both great sounding amps and I would get one if I were doing more lead guitar work!  And really both will be too loud for your apt.  For that matter the Blues Junior will be too loud if you turn it up but because of the low wattage you can get better tone at lower volumes.

The other thing I like about the Blues Junior is because of it's size it's much easier to load-in and out!  Give it a try in the store, you may be impressed!  Our lead guitarist has an older Peavey with 4-10"s I think and it's got it's own distinct tone which is cool and those amps are built tough but man is it a heavy son of a bitch!

[petemoss]

Thanks a lot for all the help everyone.
I will probably go with the hr deluxe, because it is more in my price range at the moment. I am confused though, cause every one i have seen has an effects loop. Tom must have been talking about the earlier versions made in 1996. I was THIS close to getting my hands on a brown tolex version, but someone else got to it before me...

[tower]

You won't be disappointed in a HR Deluxe...great sounding amps.  I'd like to have one myself.

[whyteand82nd]

Ha listen to Tom. He's the man. He gave me a shit ton of advice on getting my guitar

I will sex him one day.

ummmmmmmm...ysplz?

Seriously though, you coming bowling Thursday?

I cant, the mother has made her decision. :(
I'm thinking we should get a gang together and meet up for dinner before the actual concert. Yes? No?

[tomEisenbraun]

Most definitely, man.

And Pete, I was mistaken. I double-checked the Fender site and the effects loop was hiding from me in the item description. It's definitely there. I was just confused.

[petemoss]

Most definitely, man.

And Pete, I was mistaken. I double-checked the Fender site and the effects loop was hiding from me in the item description. It's definitely there. I was just confused.

Thanks for all your valuable information - from now on you are officially the authority on all things instruments and amplifiers.
I think i'm gonna just buy the hot rod for now, with the plan to eventually upgrade.

[petemoss]

So I bought the Hot Rod Deluxe, with a Boss Blues Driver to use as a booster. I'm really liking this amp. I can definitely tell it is not perfect, but I have had some really good practices with it so far. The Blues Driver really helps me get the sound I want.