RIP Gene Upshaw

[pawpaw]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_10262992

[ItStillJaimoe]

R.I.P. to a great football player even though he was really bad for active and retired players via the NFLPA.

[TheBigChicken]

that was one BAD dude

[pawpaw]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

[TheBigChicken]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[j_rud]

Upshaw did a lot for current players but you'd be remiss to not mention his reluctance to provide medical insurance and aid to retired/injured players. This is going to sound harsh but I'd be lying if I said Im not wondering how this will affect the collective bargaining agreement and the owners desire to implement a rookie contract cap.

[j_rud]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And he's giving out contracts like they're going out of style! I wanted the Giants to re-sign Gibril Wilson but theres no way he's worth Ed Reed/Bob Sanders money, which is what Davis gave him. The Raiders got a steady, solid safety, but they're paying for a game changer. The amount of money invested in that secondary is absurd!

[pawpaw]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

;D I know, and he looks more and more corpse like with each passing season. Talk about longevity though...

[pawpaw]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And he's giving out contracts like they're going out of style! I wanted the Giants to re-sign Gibril Wilson but theres no way he's worth Ed Reed/Bob Sanders money, which is what Davis gave him. The Raiders got a steady, solid safety, but they're paying for a game changer. The amount of money invested in that secondary is absurd!

I have plenty of criticism for Al Davis' ownership and coaching management style, but he's always been willing to spend money to try and build a winning team.

"Just win, baby."

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

Upshaw did a lot for current players but you'd be remiss to not mention his reluctance to provide medical insurance and aid to retired/injured players. This is going to sound harsh but I'd be lying if I said Im not wondering how this will affect the collective bargaining agreement and the owners desire to implement a rookie contract cap.

2008's Football Knowledge Champion of the MMJ Board

[The Drake]

yeah, not to pile on the dead or anything but maybe some of the retired NFL players will finally get their due now (same with the rookies). I never understood why the players association would let their former stars suffer while rewarding rookies who have accomplished nothing.  Maybe someone with a little more sense and a little more heart will replace him.  Rest In Peace

[j_rud]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And he's giving out contracts like they're going out of style! I wanted the Giants to re-sign Gibril Wilson but theres no way he's worth Ed Reed/Bob Sanders money, which is what Davis gave him. The Raiders got a steady, solid safety, but they're paying for a game changer. The amount of money invested in that secondary is absurd!

I have plenty of criticism for Al Davis' ownership and coaching management style, but he's always been willing to spend money to try and build a winning team.

"Just win, baby."

Its not about spending more money. Each team has the same amount to devote to player contracts. The Raiders arent spending "more" money than anyone. They're spending the same amount of money poorly. Thats the difference.

[j_rud]

Upshaw did a lot for current players but you'd be remiss to not mention his reluctance to provide medical insurance and aid to retired/injured players. This is going to sound harsh but I'd be lying if I said Im not wondering how this will affect the collective bargaining agreement and the owners desire to implement a rookie contract cap.

2008's Football Knowledge Champion of the MMJ Board

Damn straight...

[capt. scotty]

yeah, not to pile on the dead or anything but maybe some of the retired NFL players will finally get their due now (same with the rookies). I never understood why the players association would let their former stars suffer while rewarding rookies who have accomplished nothing.  Maybe someone with a little more sense and a little more heart will replace him.  Rest In Peace

I think a lot of people dont understand what Upshaw did do for injured/retired players. Since he became the head of the NFLPA, retired players are receiving more compensation than ever. Granted, they dont get what they deserve, and people view that in light of contract amounts now compared to 30 years ago and more, but thats not Upshaws fault. Upshaw continually pushed for more money, and usually got denied. Its not like he has this bank account for the NFLPA and he can personally pass out money to retired players in need. It doesnt work that way.

That was actually the first thing I thought of to j_rud. Im not worried about the rookie contract thing, its not like owners want to pass out that kind of $$ to rookies, so Im sure that will be taken care of rather easily. Im more worried about them not getting a salary cap settled for the 2011 (?) season. That would be terrible.

But considering how much of a cash cow the NFL is, and the owners know it, I think everything will be taken care of.

[Killgies]

RIP Gene

I always really enjoyed Gene's interviews when he came on Sirius NFL Radio. I think he did an amazing job for the NFL/players in general.
The blame shouldn't be pinned to him for the mess of some of the retired players are in. He has done many things to help.

Current Players have more to do with the mess that is going on with the Retired Players. I can understand how they would not want to pay for someone's else troubles. Not sure if there is an easy way to fix this for previous players.

[ItStillJaimoe]

Regardless of what people think of Upshaw, the NFLPA is still more disfunctional than every other professional players association.

[pawpaw]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And he's giving out contracts like they're going out of style! I wanted the Giants to re-sign Gibril Wilson but theres no way he's worth Ed Reed/Bob Sanders money, which is what Davis gave him. The Raiders got a steady, solid safety, but they're paying for a game changer. The amount of money invested in that secondary is absurd!

I have plenty of criticism for Al Davis' ownership and coaching management style, but he's always been willing to spend money to try and build a winning team.

"Just win, baby."

Its not about spending more money. Each team has the same amount to devote to player contracts. The Raiders arent spending "more" money than anyone. They're spending the same amount of money poorly. Thats the difference.

I didn't say the Raiders were spending "more" (were you quoting yourself?), and I'm aware of the salary cap. I said that Al Davis is willing to spend money to put a winning team on the field. What I meant was, that he (and his personnel staff) aggressively seeks players for areas of the team that are lacking, and aren't afraid to pay to get them. Until the past couple years, Dr. York and the Niners were a perfect example of the opposite - an ownership group raking in revenue from past glories (that they had nothing to do with), and hoping for maximum return on minimum investment (but boy are the paying now).

It may not always work out, but you can't fault Al Davis for not spending money to try improve his team - while many owners are content to hover near the team salary floor limit with a losing team if their ticket sales are still high, Al Davis wants to win, and if there's cap room, he'll make deals to try and improve, and that was my point. Sorry for not being clear.

But, as I previously mentioned, I have plenty of criticism for Al's management style. I think he's running his team with a formula that worked 30 years ago - he has a weakness for hyper-athleticism over intelligence and skill, puts his players first, and can't stand having a strong coach who will challenge his decisions. The Raiders are one of the great NFL organizations, and owe so much to Al Davis, but they CAN be a much better team without him.

[j_rud]

that was one BAD dude

I KNOW! In a town that gave birth to the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, AND THE RAIDERS, Gene Upshaw was one of the baddest. He and Art Shell were such a dominating force on the O-Line together...he is one of the NFL's greats.

...and Al Davis lives on...

Al Davis is still alive... :-/ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And he's giving out contracts like they're going out of style! I wanted the Giants to re-sign Gibril Wilson but theres no way he's worth Ed Reed/Bob Sanders money, which is what Davis gave him. The Raiders got a steady, solid safety, but they're paying for a game changer. The amount of money invested in that secondary is absurd!

I have plenty of criticism for Al Davis' ownership and coaching management style, but he's always been willing to spend money to try and build a winning team.

"Just win, baby."

Its not about spending more money. Each team has the same amount to devote to player contracts. The Raiders arent spending "more" money than anyone. They're spending the same amount of money poorly. Thats the difference.

I didn't say the Raiders were spending "more" (were you quoting yourself?), and I'm aware of the salary cap. I said that Al Davis is willing to spend money to put a winning team on the field. What I meant was, that he (and his personnel staff) aggressively seeks players for areas of the team that are lacking, and aren't afraid to pay to get them. Until the past couple years, Dr. York and the Niners were a perfect example of the opposite - an ownership group raking in revenue from past glories (that they had nothing to do with), and hoping for maximum return on minimum investment (but boy are the paying now).

It may not always work out, but you can't fault Al Davis for not spending money to try improve his team - while many owners are content to hover near the team salary floor limit if their ticket sales are still high, Al Davis wants to win, and if there's cap room, he'll make deals to try and improve, and that was my point. Sorry for not being clear.

But, as I previously mentioned, I have plenty of criticism for Al's management style. I think he's running his team with a formula that worked 30 years ago - he has a weakness for hyper-athleticism over intelligence and skill, puts his players first, and can't stand having a strong coach who will challenge his decisions. The Raiders are one of the great NFL organizations, and owe so much to Al Davis, but they CAN be a much better team without him.

I think the guy overpays, plain and simple. You dont build through free agency, you build through the draft and supplement through free agency. Agressive spending in free agency often gets you nothing. Ask Dan Snyder and the Redskins how his financial pursuit of a Super Bowl is going.

The teams most consistently at the top of the league are very rarely the ones hauling in the big name free agents. Until they splurged on Moss last year who was the last big name free agent the Patriots brought in? How about the Colts? Look at the Giants last year; their big name acquisition? Kawika Mitchell, a utility LBer from the Chiefs that no one else wanted who they signed for a pittance at 1 million. Meanwhile, they hit a grand slam in the draft and saw significant contributions from 6 rookies (2 as starters) on the way to arguably the biggest upset in Super Bowl history (its either the Giants or the Jets. Either way that honor belongs to the city of New York).

So while I would agree that Davis isnt afraid to spend money to land the big fish, I would argue that those fish havent really contributed to many wins. We're talking about a team with a top 5 pick in back to back years. Follow the plan of Scott Pioli, Jerry Reese, and Bill Polian: build through the draft, supplement through FA.  

[pawpaw]

j_rud, you're right about draft/internal development first, free agency to supplement - I certainly won't argue with you about that. I think that JaMarcus Russell may prove to be a worthy pick, and he certainly filled a need on the team. Darren McFadden, while an exciting prospect, shows Al's weakness for offensive speed. They could've used that pick on their defensive secondary or to shore up the offensive line. The Raiders should take a cue from their Coliseum stadium-mates, the A's, and follow Billy Bean's lead.

Look, I'm a Raiders fan, and we've had some hard years. We've known for a long time the way Al operates, and up until 5 years ago, it worked pretty well. I will say though, I'm optimistic about this year. If Russell can continue to improve, and Al lets coach Kiffin do his job, I see the start of good times again in Oakland.

[j_rud]

j_rud, you're right about draft/internal development first, free agency to supplement - I certainly won't argue with you about that. I think that JaMarcus Russell may prove to be a worthy pick, and he certainly filled a need on the team. Darren McFadden, while an exciting prospect, shows Al's weakness for offensive speed. They could've used that pick on their defensive secondary or to shore up the offensive line. The Raiders should take a cue from their Coliseum stadium-mates, the A's, and follow Billy Bean's lead.

Look, I'm a Raiders fan, and we've had some hard years. We've known for a long time the way Al operates, and up until 5 years ago, it worked pretty well. I will say though, I'm optimistic about this year. If Russell can continue to improve, and Al lets coach Kiffin do his job, I see the start of good times again in Oakland.

I feel bad for Raider fans. Davis just cant help but meddle in aspects of the game that have just passed him by. Thats what I love about the Mara and Tisch families (Giants owners): they ask to be kept informed of team and personnel matter but interfere in no way. Jerry Reese has been given the wheel and they let him steer the ship. Its worked out alright recently, with 3 straight playoff appearancs, a division title, conference title, and Super Bowl title.

Speaking of football, and since this is an MMJ board, how insane is this 3 day span: MMJ in DC Wednesday, Giants opener Thursday against the 'Skins, MMJ in Philly Friday.  Thats going to be EPIC ;D