Frank Zappa

[aMD]

So I've been obsessed with this guy recently and figured he deserved his own thread. Right now I've been listening to nothing but stuff from the 1972-1976 era when George Duke and Jean Luc Ponty were in his band.

He was SO far ahead of his time, in fact he may still be ahead of ours. to think that in his time he only gained popularity as a novelty act in the same vain as weird al yankovic is just absurd.  He was seriously one of the best composers of the 20th century, but most people couldn't see past the fact that he played guitar and sang funny lyrics to realize that fact, many still can't.

Reading his wikipedia article is like reading a trageic play about a musician who's always fighting something or someone and almost always losing despite almost always being right.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.  Any other fans out there?  Anyone have any recommendations outside of the 73-76 era?  anyone seen zappa plays zappa?  i really want to see it now and I'm definitely getting the dvd when it comes out later this month.  



Oh, and dude could play the guitar too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_i_HVBD9ks

[Jaimoe]

I love the 1969-76 era of Zappa best (I realize his band changed a few times during this period). The pre 1969 albums are arguably his most important work historically, but they are rooted in 60's socio-polictical satire and really experimental, so they might not be for everyone's tastes, even if We're Only in It for the Money (Sgt Pepper's parody version) is the best album cover ever, with respect to Weasles Ripped My Flesh.

Here's some must owns:

Hot Rats (1968) - as important as anything he's ever put out.
Burnt Weenie Sandwich (1970) - one of the last original line-up Mothers albums.
Chunga's Revenge (1970) - some unreal jams and grooves on this great album, pre-Frank's vocal-chord damage.
Waka/Jawaka (1972) - great album.
Zappa in New York (1978) - one of his best live albums with one of his best bands, featuring the Brecker brothers and Terry Bozio.
Sheik Yerbouti (1979)
*All the Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar albums and off-shoots (eg. Guitar).
You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore VOL II - a full concert from Helsinki recorded in 1974, features his best 70's band. This is the first time they did "Whipping Floss", a "Montana" and "Whipping Post" mash-up. The album also features Frank's best guitar solos on "Inca Roads", which is an extension of the sample used on One Size Fits all.

Any of the You Can't Do That On Stage albums are must-owns as are all the 60's stuff. I'm not a big fan of Joe's Garage though.

You probably already own it, but Frank's best live album is: Roxy & Elsewhere. Find a better song than "Penguin in Bondage". I dare you.

[Coltrane]

I could listen to "Hot Rats" about a million times in a row and love every bloody second of it.....


and i would just stare at the album cover........mezmerized.

[.Walt]

i was driving around listening to the college radio station, and this song came on that i couldn't stop listening to. it sounded like just one big song, kind of like the soft parade. they never said who it was, or what was being played. the only thing i could remember was a song about vegetables. i remember coming back, and saying i just listened to the coolest-weirdest song. turned out i was listening to the Frank Zappa hour, and they were playing Absolutely Free in it's entirety. i was hooked!

[Jellyfish]

Joe's Garage is one of my fav all time albums,period.The remastered version has such excellent sound you can taste it.

I also like the periods mentioned above as well.Weasels Ripped My Flesh,yeah,I got that on vinyl.There are a ton of Zappa recordings circulating.

[aMD]

thanks all.  I actually checked out You can't do that on stage anymore VOl 2 for the first time today.  Great stuff, Inca Roads is amazing.  Thanks for the recommendations Jaimo.  My next move will be for roxy and elsewhere.  

[red]

I'm so unfamiliar with Zappa that it makes my stomach turn.  Is there a logical 'starting point' album?

[getinthevan]

I love Zappa.  I'm not sure how I ever got interested in him, but I decided that I needed to read "The Real Frank Zappa" and I was hooked.  Zappa Plays Zappa is playing here this summer, I can't wait.

This past Halloween I carved his face on a pumpkin then listened to Mothers - Fillmore East, June 1971.  It was a good day.

[aMD]

I'm so unfamiliar with Zappa that it makes my stomach turn.  Is there a logical 'starting point' album?

YES.  definitely ' (apostrophe) followed by Overnite Sensation.  That's where I started because I saw Deezil Zappa recommend those two as a starting point on a documentary and I'm definitely hooked.  

[getinthevan]

I'm so unfamiliar with Zappa that it makes my stomach turn.  Is there a logical 'starting point' album?

YES.  definitely ' (apostrophe) followed by Overnite Sensation.  That's where I started because I saw Deezil Zappa recommend those two as a starting point on a documentary and I'm definitely hooked.  

If you're not taking the vinyl approach, these two albums are available on one disc.  

[aMD]

I'm so unfamiliar with Zappa that it makes my stomach turn.  Is there a logical 'starting point' album?

YES.  definitely ' (apostrophe) followed by Overnite Sensation.  That's where I started because I saw Deezil Zappa recommend those two as a starting point on a documentary and I'm definitely hooked.  

If you're not taking the vinyl approach, these two albums are available on one disc.  

I have em on mp3 but am looking into getting them on vinyl.  Those are seriously two of the greatest albums I've ever heard. I've been listening to them practically non-stop the past month and am still gaining appreciation for them.  

[Jenny]

my absolute favorite is "we're only in it for the money" followed by "hot rats".
i think both're good starting points.

[Jenny]

PS: apparently lou reed hated zappa:

QUOTE:
"He's probably the single most untalented person I've heard in my life. He's a two-bit pretentious academic, and he can't play rock'n'roll, because he's a loser. And that's why he dresses up funny. He's not happy with himself, and I think he's right."

[corey]

Lou Reed doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

It looks like most people agree that "Hot Rats" is a great starting point. There's not a bad note on the album.

As far as live stuff goes, "The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life" is fuckin' great.

My wife and I had tickets to see Zappa Plays Zappa live back when Vai was on the tour, but it was 5 days away from Christmas and was over 4 hours away... so we ended up selling our tickets at the last minute. We've regretted it since. :(

[getinthevan]

My wife and I had tickets to see Zappa Plays Zappa live back when Vai was on the tour, but it was 5 days away from Christmas and was over 4 hours away... so we ended up selling our tickets at the last minute. We've regretted it since. :(

For some reason I decided to not to go to see that tour the summer it came here.  I also have regretted it ever since.  


I'm quite fond of Sheik Yerbouti.  The lyrics are ridiculous and the music is great.  I don't know that I have a single complaint about it.  Except maybe that it doesn't have St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast on it.  

[Penny Lane]

i'm so glad there's a zappa thread! i'm the biggest frank fan ever!

if you can, check out zappa plays zappa or project object (w/ike willis)...they have the zappa songs down to a tee. what a great experience--

frank was WAY ahead of his time (in life and in music) --i agree that a logical starting point is hot rats or joe's garage--it's not for everyone..

lou reed is an idiot for saying that...frank was a genius--he may not have played lou's style of rock and roll or had the rock and roll lifestyle (didn't drink or do drugs) but that's because it bored him.

now if i could only get thru ThingFish---wierd album....

[Crispy]

I'm late getting here - count me in the camp who feel that Frank Zappa was one of the greatest modern composers and musicians. Joe's Garage was way high up the list on my high school soundtrack back in the '80s - it's still one of my favorites even if it's not the most highly thought of. Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation is definitely the best way to introduce oneself to his stuff - Nanook and St. Alphonso and all that, but also more incredible playing on tunes like Zomby Woof and Montana. Then of course you get Dinah-Moe-Hum, which is about the best example of his "typical" shock-sex-humor song. (If you ever get the chance, don't do this tune at karaoke) It's unfortunate that most still see FZ's stuff in that vein and don't really appreciate the man for the music.

I've always liked the late 70's and early 80's stuff too, like Baby Snakes and Ship Arriving Too Late - maybe not the best material, but the musicians and bands he put together were incredible. The Underwoods, the Bozzios, Cuccurullo, Mars, Belew, Fowler, Duke, Ponty, the list goes on and on. FZ liked to take music recorded from live shows and mix it into studio records, so you know those people were friggin good. If you've ever played any instrument, just imagine trying to keep up with the Black Page!

I missed Zappa Plays Zappa when they came through here and now I regret it. I did see their rendition of Camarillo Brillo in the documentary about Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, and it seemed a bit contrived, like Dweezil's band may lack the spontaneity of the old Frank groups, but I guess that's to be expected. Anybody here seen ZPZ and care to rebut this opinion?

Now is that real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?

[Penny Lane]

I'm late getting here - count me in the camp who feel that Frank Zappa was one of the greatest modern composers and musicians. Joe's Garage was way high up the list on my high school soundtrack back in the '80s - it's still one of my favorites even if it's not the most highly thought of. Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation is definitely the best way to introduce oneself to his stuff - Nanook and St. Alphonso and all that, but also more incredible playing on tunes like Zomby Woof and Montana. Then of course you get Dinah-Moe-Hum, which is about the best example of his "typical" shock-sex-humor song. (If you ever get the chance, don't do this tune at karaoke) It's unfortunate that most still see FZ's stuff in that vein and don't really appreciate the man for the music.

I've always liked the late 70's and early 80's stuff too, like Baby Snakes and Ship Arriving Too Late - maybe not the best material, but the musicians and bands he put together were incredible. The Underwoods, the Bozzios, Cuccurullo, Mars, Belew, Fowler, Duke, Ponty, the list goes on and on. FZ liked to take music recorded from live shows and mix it into studio records, so you know those people were friggin good. If you've ever played any instrument, just imagine trying to keep up with the Black Page!

I missed Zappa Plays Zappa when they came through here and now I regret it. I did see their rendition of Camarillo Brillo in the documentary about Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, and it seemed a bit contrived, like Dweezil's band may lack the spontaneity of the old Frank groups, but I guess that's to be expected. Anybody here seen ZPZ and care to rebut this opinion?

Now is that real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?

the baby snakes DVD is great...you have to get it

[aMD]

I'm late getting here - count me in the camp who feel that Frank Zappa was one of the greatest modern composers and musicians. Joe's Garage was way high up the list on my high school soundtrack back in the '80s - it's still one of my favorites even if it's not the most highly thought of. Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation is definitely the best way to introduce oneself to his stuff - Nanook and St. Alphonso and all that, but also more incredible playing on tunes like Zomby Woof and Montana. Then of course you get Dinah-Moe-Hum, which is about the best example of his "typical" shock-sex-humor song. (If you ever get the chance, don't do this tune at karaoke) It's unfortunate that most still see FZ's stuff in that vein and don't really appreciate the man for the music.

I've always liked the late 70's and early 80's stuff too, like Baby Snakes and Ship Arriving Too Late - maybe not the best material, but the musicians and bands he put together were incredible. The Underwoods, the Bozzios, Cuccurullo, Mars, Belew, Fowler, Duke, Ponty, the list goes on and on. FZ liked to take music recorded from live shows and mix it into studio records, so you know those people were friggin good. If you've ever played any instrument, just imagine trying to keep up with the Black Page!

I missed Zappa Plays Zappa when they came through here and now I regret it. I did see their rendition of Camarillo Brillo in the documentary about Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, and it seemed a bit contrived, like Dweezil's band may lack the spontaneity of the old Frank groups, but I guess that's to be expected. Anybody here seen ZPZ and care to rebut this opinion?

Now is that real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?

hmmm... no foolin'!

I have a DVD of a few late night performances of ZPZ and they definitely do willie the pimp and peaches en regalia justice.  i can see what you mean by it being contrived but they have a LOT to live up to.

It seems like we're split on the most logical starting point.  Half think '/overnite sensation and the other half think hot rats.  let's let dweezil be the tie-breaker, start with '/overnite sensation!!!  I have to disagree with we're only in it for the money being a good starting point. I don't really like it, it's more of a statement that you can understand by looking at the cover than an album I would rock out and sing at the top of my lungs.  If I had started there, I may not have moved on.

[Kimbos_Evil_Bread]

Thanks for starting this thread, I've always wanted to get into Zappa but never had a clue where to start.  Awesome tips everybody!