The demise of Major League Baseball

[Tracy 2112]

Anyone else feel it? Sports talk here in Nashville has been talking about how the national's past time is starting to become less and less appealing. I grew up an avid fan (I can still name the starting lineup for the Big Red Machine of the mid 70's) but quit watching in the late 90's. Now, I can't even recall who played in the previous year's World Series. and I probably can't name more than 3 players on 1 team.

Anyone else used to be a fan but not anymore? I mean, I cleared Sunday's slate to watch women's soccer, that's how much I couldn't care less about baseball these days.

[TheBigChicken]

I agree. Watered down garbage with too many teams. With this you get sub -standard  pitching which equal more HR's...etc....just plain sucks and I don't watch it...not to mention ROIDS >:(

[mjk73]

Sadly I haven't even watched a game this season.

[capt. scotty]

Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.

Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!

[Tracy 2112]

Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.

Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!

Thank you for validating my point.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I agree. Watered down garbage with too many teams. With this you get sub -standard  pitching which equal more HR's...etc....just plain sucks and I don't watch it...not to mention ROIDS >:(

almost guarantee players have been roiding up for years and years and years.  they got narc'd out and then people were like "what? no way, it's baseball, this is america".  they forget these fuckers get millions of dollars to play a game, of course they're going to juice up.  their livelihood depends on it now.  I want to see MORE roided up players. 

[capt. scotty]

Buccos are a half game out of 1st place, best record this late since 1992, so shut your god damn fucking mouth, curmudgeon.

Also, there's a baseball thread, maybe you should do a thread search noob!

Thank you for validating my point.

No prob, but what they really need is a salary cap and salary minimum, within reasonable distance, maybe $50mill.

[ophidiophobia]

I don't agree with this at all! Pitching is at a premium these last couple years, Lee threw 3 consecutive shutouts this season, Justin Verlander has thrown a no hitter this season, Rangers' starters have been lights out the last couple weeks, and as mentioned earlier the Bucs' pitching has got them further than they have been in almost 20 years. Baseball isn't a causual sport; most people that enjoy it are freaks about the game (myself included). It's hard to compare the women's soccer game to a common baseball game. I watched a bunch of the soccer because it was team USA but I don't give two shits about MLS, and just because I watched the women play I wouldn't consider myself a fan instead I was just proud of my country. Baseball is a great game with many hardcore fans just not many fair-weather ones. I loved watching The Open, the World Cup, and the Red Sox game yesterday. I was sad that Phil or Dustin Johnson didn't win, I was sad that the women lost, but come October and the Red Sox make the World Series and lose I will be heartbroken.

[Tracy 2112]

I don't agree with this at all!

I am not asking for people to agree, it's just a fact that MLB is on the decline and has been for a little while now. Attendance is down, TV ratings are down (Red Sox viewership is down 35% this year) they just had the lowest rated all-star game in the history of baseball. From 2000-2009 the crown jewel of MLB, the World Series, averaged a 12.05 rating which only pales in comparison to the 25.51 average rating the fall classic received from 1980-1989 (over a 50% drop).

My question is why do you think this is? Is it b/c there are so many Hispanic players? So few black players? Game is too slow for today's ADHD society? The Rays have a suck ass stadium?

[Ruckus]

I don't necessarily agree Tracy.  I do think the regions of fandom have shifted to some extent.  It was only a few years back that MLB set all time attendance and revenue records.  Baseball has never been a huge television draw but there still exists a huge, loyal fan base.  Unfortunately, I do think that the popularity is waning with each upcoming generation and I don't attribute it to some failure on baseball as much access to more varied forms of entertainment as well as the previously mentioned ADHD culture. 

If you are in a big baseball market, it's still a pretty big deal.  I think it's rather unfair to compare ratings from the 80s when we had 10 channels then compared to now.  Try comparing the average attendance from the 80s to the last couple of years and the numbers tell a different story.

And Ophidophobia, I couldn't agree with you more.  The "post" steroid era has been a breath of fresh air.  One thing I will contest is the complete myth of "watered down" pitching because of more teams.  No one ever contests this fallacy and it is repeated as gospel as so many other sports axioms.  30 years ago, we didn't have Venezuelans, Japanese, South Koreans, etc. playing at a high level as we do now.  With that, the number of quality pitchers competing for MLB roster spots has increased at a much greater rate than increase in roster spots as a result of expansion.  Secondly, even up through the eighties into the nineties, very few pitchers had command of three pitches and most relied on the 4 seam fastball.  Nowadays, everyone has a changeup or splitter as an alternative offspeed pitch to throw against opposite side hitters.  Additonally, no one gets away with throwing just a 4 seamer anymore.  Everyone's fastball moves, either 2 seam tailers or cutter/sliders, all with an increase in average velocity across the board.

[bowl of soup]

Yes Tracy, it's the Trops fault.  Baseball is fading, old dudes like myself still watch, but ask a 14 year-old to name 5 baseball players, then ask him to name 5 x-game folks and see who wins.  I think that there are a million reasons, but all sports fade.  At the turn of the last century boxing and horse racing were the preeminate sports in this country - both might be gone in 50 years.  Everything about baseball is looooooong.  The game, the season, the time between pitches and that's just not where were at as a society

[mike]

Yankees attendence during 1930s.

15,185

11,773

12,337

9,579

11,100

8,826

12,605

12,715

12,368

11,313

Yankees attendance during 50s.
26,857

25,326

21,165

20,368

19,034

19,352

19,374

19,443

18,431

20,026

20,998

Yankess 2000-2010

37,956

40,807

42,736

42,785

47,788

50,499

51,858

52,739

53,069

45,918

[pawpaw]

I don't know, I thought last season was one of the best ever.  8)

Baseball isn't a sport that's well suited for Red Zone style streaming stats and highlights, and that's how "we" consume sports today. NL-style, pitching dominant, grinder games are especially a turn-off to the casual fan, but I love them. And in the right hands, no sport is better suited for a radio call.

[mike]

Chicago Cubs attendance during 1950s.

15,142

11,541

13,224

9,854

9,717

11,374

9,173

8,598

12,726

11,074

Cubs 70's

20,280

20,407

16,656

16,791

12,536

12,776

12,669

17,776

18,831

20,353

Cubs 2000-2010
34,438

35,196

33,248

37,032

39,138

38,753

39,040

40,153

40,743

39,610

As you can see, no one goes to games anymore eh?

[mike]

And so the attendance figures are not just from Chicago and New York, lets say we look at the mighty Pirates.

During the 40's
6,597

6,263

6,107

6,477

7,899

7,853

9,740

16,669

19,702

18,824

70's
8,532

18,419

16,295

13,711

15,777

12,666

15,276

11,976

17,722

2000-10
30,834

23,148

20,983

21,107

23,003

23,269

22,141

20,113

19,479

[kotchishm]

I've watched almost every single Nationals game this year.  With the NBA lockout in full effect and the NFL having tough labor negotiations I can see some resentment from fans.  Let it be noted that the CBA for Major League Baseball ends December 11th yet there has been no talk of a lockout.  Plans are to have the new agreement in place by the World Series.  I'm not saying baseball could reclaim it's spot at the top but the 1994 Lockout killed the MLB.  The steroid era is over and the labor negotiations are going smoothly I can see MLB poised for a climb in popularity again.  With there being a bunch of young talent starting to dominate the MLB:

- Starlin Castro
- Michael Pineda
- Danny Espinosa
- Bryce Harper (soon enough)
- Andrew McCutcheon
- Hunter Pence

I can see if being easy for a younger generation to become attached in some way to a team/player.  I know it's been easier to watch Nationals' games not only for their competitveness in games but also the youth of the team (average age 28.4) and also the youth of most clubs that are now becoming threats to the older powers (Pittsburgh (27.6), Cleveland (27.2) and Tampa (27.8).  Not saying it's guaranteed or even plausible that the NFL loses it's throne but I can definitely see MLB's popularity rising in the coming years.  Or at least I can hope.


Go Nats!

[BigHerm]

And so the attendance figures are not just from Chicago and New York, lets say we look at the mighty Pirates.

I don't think people buying a ticket and a hot dog are paying $50,000,000 contracts or whatever the hell these guys make now... For me, I've always found baseball painfully boring. That said I hit up a few Nashville Sounds games a year on thirsty Thursday. 

[ophidiophobia]

I think two of the largest problems that baseball struggles with to attract new fans are translating the live game to TV and the pace of play. When I sat down to watch a game on TV it's hard for me to stay interested for the typical 3-3.5 hours it takes for an average game. But when I'm at a baseball game there are so many things for everybody to do. Most stadiums that I've been to have playplaces for young ones, numerous pubs/bars for dad and/or mom. Baseball's pace of play has a hard time converting the live game to the television. Also, the time of a game is so long compared to other sports. Sunday night Boston beat Tampa 1-0 in 16 innings and the game time was over 5 and a half hours. Compared to a football game or a basketball game there is too much in-between time between pitches and innings. Football on TV is similar to baseball as far as time goes, but the pace of a football game is lots faster. The sports saying "speed kills" applies to the problem baseball faces; basketball and football blow right by it in terms of speed of play.

[kotchishm]

Speed of the game defense may no longer be valid

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-games-are-about-to-get-longer-and-more-repla?urn=nfl-wp3507

[e_wind]

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