2012 College Football

[manonthemoon]

I don't see how CK will be as successful in the NFL as its such a gimiky offense that would likely kill the offensive linemen due to the pace.  With that said the only way I see him leaving is if the rumors that the NCAA hammer is about to come down are true, just like with Carroll at USC.

I don't think it is gimmicky at all.  It's unique but its basic tenets are no different than most NFL offenses.  The zone read options and bubble screens are widely used in some variation by the Panthers, Redskins and Seahawks to great effect.  The Patriots had another prolific year and ran so many damn plays after Bellichick consulted with Kelly and added some of his wrinkles into the Patriots' attack, mainly his fast, faster and fastest concepts.

Think about how hesitant the NFL has been to adopting cutting edge offensive styles.  Some of it has to do with how valuable quarterbacks are and some has to do with the fear of failure in a prestigious coaching position.  In the NCAA, there are well over a 100 teams alone and it's such fertile breeding ground for new ideas where there isn't as much risk for a coach to try something new in order to overcome talent gaps.

It was only a matter of time before the NFL began adopting spread packages and now with running qbs, even moreso.  The one thing Kelly needs is a passing QB with legs, i.e. Wilson.  I look forward to his ascension to the pros.

Here's a great Grantland article that came out right before Stanford throttled them this year.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8631595/the-success-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks-offense-more-familiar-seems

Well said Ruckus.  When you see gurus like Bellichick going out to pick the brains of Kelly and utilizing some of the principles of his offensive philosophy with a non-mobile qb like Brady, I think it is something that could definitely work in the NFL.

There's a big difference in using parts of an offense and using the entire thing in the NFL.  I mean the redskins are using a pistol/option based offense, but not all of the time, plus they have the rare advantage of having a world class sprinter who plays qb.  Not too many of those in the NFL these days, even though Kap and Wilson are pretty mobil. 

http://coachingsearch.com/component/content/article/2153-jerome-bettis-skeptical-about-chip-kellys-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I have seen other articles about this in the past and the one thing that is brought up by former linemen usually is that 300 plus NFL lineman are like the smaller ones that Oregon uses in their scheme and wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace.  Conversely if you use undersized lineman they won't be affective against NFL Defenses.

He may have some success early on, even if he is stuck with Weeden and the Browns, but the NFL has a way of stoping gimiky offenses like the wildcat and I think even the read option will not last super long as qbs will start getting hurt or someone will come up with an effective way to gameplan for it.

I also think the reason a lot of these offense work as well these days is all of the rules that have been placed that put the defense at a sever disadvantage.  Look at all of the over records broken over the past few years and it points to the league making it harder on defenses.  But that's an entirely different topic.

Ruckus, what do you think about your hero's tattoo?  I am suprised he didn't get it on his feet.

[Mahgeetah34]

Well, that Football Johnny guy sure did tear through Oklahoma. Being in the SEC must've given that team super powers this season. I wonder how Bob Stoops feels about being on the receiving end of a blowout?? Him, Saban and Urban Meyer are pretty low individuals in terms of classless characters.

As for the Clowney hit, I don't see the big deal. He simply wrapped the guy up and laid his weight into him. The helmet coming off made it look bigger than it was.

[Tracy 2112]

As for the Clowney hit, I don't see the big deal. He simply wrapped the guy up and laid his weight into him. The helmet coming off made it look bigger than it was.

And caused a fumble, picked the ball up with one hand and began to run, all in 1 motion. One of the most amazing plays I have ever seen.

[Mahgeetah34]

As for the Clowney hit, I don't see the big deal. He simply wrapped the guy up and laid his weight into him. The helmet coming off made it look bigger than it was.

And caused a fumble, picked the ball up with one hand and began to run, all in 1 motion. One of the most amazing plays I have ever seen.

Yeah I completely forgot about that part. That was pretty awesome. A lot of folks on Facebook and such were making a big deal about the hit itself which was a big hit, but nothing to turn backflips about.

[iLikeBeer]

There's a big difference in using parts of an offense and using the entire thing in the NFL.  I mean the redskins are using a pistol/option based offense, but not all of the time, plus they have the rare advantage of having a world class sprinter who plays qb.  Not too many of those in the NFL these days, even though Kap and Wilson are pretty mobil. 

http://coachingsearch.com/component/content/article/2153-jerome-bettis-skeptical-about-chip-kellys-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I have seen other articles about this in the past and the one thing that is brought up by former linemen usually is that 300 plus NFL lineman are like the smaller ones that Oregon uses in their scheme and wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace.  Conversely if you use undersized lineman they won't be affective against NFL Defenses.

He may have some success early on, even if he is stuck with Weeden and the Browns, but the NFL has a way of stoping gimiky offenses like the wildcat and I think even the read option will not last super long as qbs will start getting hurt or someone will come up with an effective way to gameplan for it.

I also think the reason a lot of these offense work as well these days is all of the rules that have been placed that put the defense at a sever disadvantage.  Look at all of the over records broken over the past few years and it points to the league making it harder on defenses.  But that's an entirely different topic.

Ruckus, what do you think about your hero's tattoo?  I am suprised he didn't get it on his feet.

Who says Kelly can't adapt either?  This guy obviously has a pretty good offensive mind when you have coaching icons like Bill Bellichick coming cross country to pick your brain in getting ideas to upgrade his offense.  If Kelly can help Bellichick introduce pieces of his offense to be run by an immobile Qb like Brady, I think he could also develop a style of offense to fit the personnel he would inherit in Cleveland.

As Ruckus said, there are more and more QB's coming out of college with the tool sets to run at least a variation of what Kelly likes to run.  Just look at how many dual threat QB's there are now:  Cam Newton, RG3, Russel Wilson, Kap.  The trend has already started and the Browns are hot on the coach who best runs this style of offense. 

BTW, it looks like the Browns are closing in on Kelly:

Kelly Likely On Way To Browns

Now, the Browns can go winless next year so they can draft Johnny Football #1 who would be a PERFECT fit to run Kelly's system!   

[manonthemoon]

There's a big difference in using parts of an offense and using the entire thing in the NFL.  I mean the redskins are using a pistol/option based offense, but not all of the time, plus they have the rare advantage of having a world class sprinter who plays qb.  Not too many of those in the NFL these days, even though Kap and Wilson are pretty mobil. 

http://coachingsearch.com/component/content/article/2153-jerome-bettis-skeptical-about-chip-kellys-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I have seen other articles about this in the past and the one thing that is brought up by former linemen usually is that 300 plus NFL lineman are like the smaller ones that Oregon uses in their scheme and wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace.  Conversely if you use undersized lineman they won't be affective against NFL Defenses.

He may have some success early on, even if he is stuck with Weeden and the Browns, but the NFL has a way of stoping gimiky offenses like the wildcat and I think even the read option will not last super long as qbs will start getting hurt or someone will come up with an effective way to gameplan for it.

I also think the reason a lot of these offense work as well these days is all of the rules that have been placed that put the defense at a sever disadvantage.  Look at all of the over records broken over the past few years and it points to the league making it harder on defenses.  But that's an entirely different topic.

Ruckus, what do you think about your hero's tattoo?  I am suprised he didn't get it on his feet.

Who says Kelly can't adapt either?  This guy obviously has a pretty good offensive mind when you have coaching icons like Bill Bellichick coming cross country to pick your brain in getting ideas to upgrade his offense.  If Kelly can help Bellichick introduce pieces of his offense to be run by an immobile Qb like Brady, I think he could also develop a style of offense to fit the personnel he would inherit in Cleveland.

As Ruckus said, there are more and more QB's coming out of college with the tool sets to run at least a variation of what Kelly likes to run.  Just look at how many dual threat QB's there are now:  Cam Newton, RG3, Russel Wilson, Kap.  The trend has already started and the Browns are hot on the coach who best runs this style of offense. 

BTW, it looks like the Browns are closing in on Kelly:

Kelly Likely On Way To Browns

Now, the Browns can go winless next year so they can draft Johnny Football #1 who would be a PERFECT fit to run Kelly's system!   

Well see how it goes, I think it is telling that he is said to prefer McCoy to Weeden, which has to be based on his running ability.  I also think that being a defensive and running team by design it will be interesting in how it all pans out.

Anything can happen, but I just think that this trend of running qbs will be short lived as the defenses will catch up schematically.

[Ruckus]

I don't see how CK will be as successful in the NFL as its such a gimiky offense that would likely kill the offensive linemen due to the pace.  With that said the only way I see him leaving is if the rumors that the NCAA hammer is about to come down are true, just like with Carroll at USC.

I don't think it is gimmicky at all.  It's unique but its basic tenets are no different than most NFL offenses.  The zone read options and bubble screens are widely used in some variation by the Panthers, Redskins and Seahawks to great effect.  The Patriots had another prolific year and ran so many damn plays after Bellichick consulted with Kelly and added some of his wrinkles into the Patriots' attack, mainly his fast, faster and fastest concepts.

Think about how hesitant the NFL has been to adopting cutting edge offensive styles.  Some of it has to do with how valuable quarterbacks are and some has to do with the fear of failure in a prestigious coaching position.  In the NCAA, there are well over a 100 teams alone and it's such fertile breeding ground for new ideas where there isn't as much risk for a coach to try something new in order to overcome talent gaps.

It was only a matter of time before the NFL began adopting spread packages and now with running qbs, even moreso.  The one thing Kelly needs is a passing QB with legs, i.e. Wilson.  I look forward to his ascension to the pros.

Here's a great Grantland article that came out right before Stanford throttled them this year.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8631595/the-success-chip-kelly-oregon-ducks-offense-more-familiar-seems

Well said Ruckus.  When you see gurus like Bellichick going out to pick the brains of Kelly and utilizing some of the principles of his offensive philosophy with a non-mobile qb like Brady, I think it is something that could definitely work in the NFL.

There's a big difference in using parts of an offense and using the entire thing in the NFL.  I mean the redskins are using a pistol/option based offense, but not all of the time, plus they have the rare advantage of having a world class sprinter who plays qb.  Not too many of those in the NFL these days, even though Kap and Wilson are pretty mobil. 

http://coachingsearch.com/component/content/article/2153-jerome-bettis-skeptical-about-chip-kellys-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I have seen other articles about this in the past and the one thing that is brought up by former linemen usually is that 300 plus NFL lineman are like the smaller ones that Oregon uses in their scheme and wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace.  Conversely if you use undersized lineman they won't be affective against NFL Defenses.

He may have some success early on, even if he is stuck with Weeden and the Browns, but the NFL has a way of stoping gimiky offenses like the wildcat and I think even the read option will not last super long as qbs will start getting hurt or someone will come up with an effective way to gameplan for it.

I also think the reason a lot of these offense work as well these days is all of the rules that have been placed that put the defense at a sever disadvantage.  Look at all of the over records broken over the past few years and it points to the league making it harder on defenses.  But that's an entirely different topic.

Ruckus, what do you think about your hero's tattoo?  I am suprised he didn't get it on his feet.

You make some good points and I'm sure you have some first hand experience as well. 
A couple of things:  While offenses have improved because of the rule changes (though we don't know how much), I believe the change in offensive styles and the use of the no huddle, hurry ups, and increased pass/run ratio have as much to do with it, even if somewhat a result of the rule changes.  The sheer number of plays run now because of play stoppages on incompletes, hurry ups, and big plays would have led to a point increase even if you could crush the qb, a defenseless receiver, or make contact after 5 yards with a receiver.

As to the lineman argument, there are teams that run the zone schemes that have thrived with smaller O Lineman.  Sure a 350 lb LT might struggle but I always thought that in any hurry up, the D spent more energy and gets exhausted before the O.

The choice between McCoy and Weeden is a tough one but if he said that, I get where he is coming from.  As with Harbaugh taking Kaep over Smith and Carroll taking Wilson over Flynn, good to great mobility and not just functional mobility is required to run these schemes, particularly Kelly's.  Ha!  Dennis Dixon might be getting a call.

[iLikeBeer]

Well, we can end the speculation wrt Kelly and the Browns.  Don't know who broke off the talks, but the Browns are no longer in on hiring Kelly and it looks more likely that Kelly will be staying at Oregon to soon be facing NCAA sanctions.  Looks like his plan to cut and run from Oregon didn't work out like he planned?

[davymac]

Its gameday!  I hope everyone has plans to watch this game, I'm excited, I think it should be a good match up!

[ItBeats4Jew]

Well, we can end the speculation wrt Kelly and the Browns.  Don't know who broke off the talks, but the Browns are no longer in on hiring Kelly and it looks more likely that Kelly will be staying at Oregon to soon be facing NCAA sanctions.  Looks like his plan to cut and run from Oregon didn't work out like he planned?

don't know about the sanctions ILB.  if the NCAA was sniffing around, dontcha think he'd bail Carroll-style?  I think he tried to create a bidding war and overplayed his hand. 

[Mahgeetah34]

Were people being serious when they said Notre Dame could be the team to stop the streak? Please..

[Tracy 2112]

UGA's defense isn't nearly as good as ND's so I don't think you will see Bama putting up the rushing numbers they did on UGA.  That said, I also don't think ND will have the success offensively that UGA had on Bama's defense.  I think this one will be lower scoring and closer than many (ESECPN) who are already predicting the NC game won't live up to the hype of the SEC Championship.   

Close game or not, I don't see Bama losing; in fact, I could see it getting ugly early. I think experience will play a key factor. Brian Kelly talks ND getting everyone's "best" each Saturday and they understand pressure? Well, so does Bama. It's just the pressure ND will feel in Miami will be different than the pressure they felt against Purdue, who they beat in South Bend by 3 (that's 6-6 Purdue) or BYU, who they beat in South Bend by 3 (that's 7-5 BYU) or Pitt, who they beat in South Bend by 3 in OT (that's 6-6 Pitt). Saban and the boys have 5 weeks to prepare for the game and they have been here before (like, last year and 2 years before that!). As much as I dislike Alabama and was rooting for UGA yesterday, we all know football is best in the South and that's where the BCS title will live for the 7th consecutive year.

[Mahgeetah34]

A page back, I said Alabama wins the SEC Championship 27-21. The actual score 32-28. I called a win by six and they win by 4.

I called Alabama to win the National Championship by blowing out Notre Dame 38-13. The actual score...42-14. I called a win by 25 and they win by 28.

Seems like I know my stuff

P.S. I apologize for my attitude this college football season. I just don't like people assuming I'm wrong when it comes to certain sports. 

[yakeroo]

Win-win situation really. It's the SEC either way! My early predictions have it Alabama-38 Notre Dame-13. I do hope Manti Te'o gets Heisman though. The guy deserves it!

Mahgeetah34 I do not question your superior college football intelligence, but do you still think Te'O deserved the heisman?

Crazy to think had Ohio State been eligible, they would have played Notre Dame. This playoff system can not come soon enough!

[Mahgeetah34]

Win-win situation really. It's the SEC either way! My early predictions have it Alabama-38 Notre Dame-13. I do hope Manti Te'o gets Heisman though. The guy deserves it!

Mahgeetah34 I do not question your superior college football intelligence, but do you still think Te'O deserved the heisman?

Crazy to think had Ohio State been eligible, they would have played Notre Dame. This playoff system can not come soon enough!

It seems I was wrong on one thing. Football Jonathan deserved the trophy rather than Manti Te'o. It would've been nice to see ole Manti win it though...he seems like a good character.

Ohio State is in the "powerful" big ten. Playoff scenario and Alabama beats both teams 9 times out of 10. Urban and Nick are both pieces of trash though.

[yakeroo]

Haha why is Saban trash? You have got to admit he is probably one of, if not the best, college football coach we have seen in our lifetime.

Alabama plays at Texas A&M next year. I got to think the outcome will be much different the next go round.

[Ruckus]

UGA's defense isn't nearly as good as ND's so I don't think you will see Bama putting up the rushing numbers they did on UGA.  That said, I also don't think ND will have the success offensively that UGA had on Bama's defense.  I think this one will be lower scoring and closer than many (ESECPN) who are already predicting the NC game won't live up to the hype of the SEC Championship.   

Close game or not, I don't see Bama losing; in fact, I could see it getting ugly early. I think experience will play a key factor. Brian Kelly talks ND getting everyone's "best" each Saturday and they understand pressure? Well, so does Bama. It's just the pressure ND will feel in Miami will be different than the pressure they felt against Purdue, who they beat in South Bend by 3 (that's 6-6 Purdue) or BYU, who they beat in South Bend by 3 (that's 7-5 BYU) or Pitt, who they beat in South Bend by 3 in OT (that's 6-6 Pitt). Saban and the boys have 5 weeks to prepare for the game and they have been here before (like, last year and 2 years before that!). As much as I dislike Alabama and was rooting for UGA yesterday, we all know football is best in the South and that's where the BCS title will live for the 7th consecutive year.

Easiest money I ever made.  I love how Urban Meyer had the Irish winning a close one.

[Tracy 2112]

Alabama plays at Texas A&M next year. I got to think the outcome will be much different the next go round.

Much different than losing? Maybe. I dunno, A & M is going to be really good next year. September can't come soon enough   

[Mahgeetah34]

Haha why is Saban trash? You have got to admit he is probably one of, if not the best, college football coach we have seen in our lifetime.

Alabama plays at Texas A&M next year. I got to think the outcome will be much different the next go round.

Nick Saban is a great coach. He always has his team disciplined and ready to play. As an individual, he's trash because he doesn't have the best character although Urban's "fake death" probably beats that.

This video always brings me laughs
Nick Saban Failure as a human being.mpg

[Mahgeetah34]

A page back, I said Alabama wins the SEC Championship 27-21. The actual score 32-28. I called a win by six and they win by 4.

I called Alabama to win the National Championship by blowing out Notre Dame 38-13. The actual score...42-14. I called a win by 25 and they win by 28.

Seems like I know my stuff

P.S. I apologize for my attitude this college football season. I just don't like people assuming I'm wrong when it comes to certain sports. 

Had to quote myself since my wondrous predictions got buried behind on the last page. Where are all of the 'Notre Dame's defense won't allow a blowout' and 'The national title game will be better than the SEC championship' people at?