Marijuana legalization, decriminalization and law reform

[wolof7]

Some big moves made in this country on November 6th in the states of Washington and Colorado by fully legalizing marijuana for personal recreational use without penalty. My home state and current state RI and Mass (along with Maine) are proposing full legalization bills in the near future. Many states also voted to legalize marijuana for medical use this past election.

I can honestly say the way things have been going I did not believe the country would get far with overturning the 70 odd yr prohibition on this substance which is proving to be, with each scientific study, not as harmful as the hype created for it many yrs ago when it was outlawed for dubious reasons (food for thought: it was cheaper, more popular and preferred amongst the Mexican and African-American populations in the 1920's/30's during the era of housing reformation and urbanization). Then came Reefer Madness with its jazz clubs, black face and all.

With a $1 trillion failed War on Drugs and the current economic issues plaguing our nation what are people's thoughts on these measures? Good, bad, ugly? Is it harmful to introduce a new substance for consumption or can this be an effectively regulated cash crop and safe alternative to other highly abused substances both legal and illegal?

Just 2 weeks before the measures are signed into effect, several counties in both Washington and Colorado have begun dismissing all marijuana possession offenses, cleaning the slate for many who would otherwise dish out good money to still have a black mark on their criminal records and potentially wreak havoc on their personal and professional lives.

I'm for full legalization.

[iLikeBeer]

I have been for legalization for a looooong time and I say, it's about damn time we are finally seeing some progress being made in the direction of legalization.  I have never understood how a drug like alcohol, which is faaaaaar more addictive and faaaaaar more destructive than marijuana, can be legal and pot is not???

One thing I am skeptical about though, is how things will go in the states where it is now legal?  I am fearful that you will have a lot of growers/criminals moving out to those states where it is now legal and causing more harm than good giving the skeptics and detractors ammunition against legalization.  My hope is, that with the passing of these laws in Washington and Colorado that this will become like a domino effect and we will see more states fall in line. The faster this movement sweeps the country, the better it will be and the fewer problems will arise.

Also, what I have never understood is why federal and state governments have been so stubborn to see the potential revenue that could be generated from legalizing marijuana as opposed to the trillions of dollars they have spent/wasted in trying to fight it???  And I don't get the argument that they are opposed to legalization because they feel that it will only lead to legalizing harsher drugs?!  Why would that be the case?  Just more bullshit propoganda much like the hysteria that has surrounded this drug as being a so-called 'gateway' drug by the anti-legalization movement!

Which leads me to this.  I am also completely fed up with the stigmatism and hysteria those in the anti-legalization movement are making.  The stereotype that they paint that everyone that smokes weed is a worthless stoner ala Spicolli in Fast Times is a complete joke!  I have several friends who hold prominent jobs and lead productive lives that smoke on a regular basis and no one outside of those in our circle of friends would even know it!  Imagine that!  They aren't becoming degenerate wastes in society and they aren't seeking out harder drugs because we all know marijuana is nothing but a 'gateway' drug after all right?!   

I just wish those opposing these measures would just get their heads out of their asses and see the potential revenue that marijuana could be for already cash strapped state governments across the country!

Congrats to Washington and Colorado for hopefully getting that snowball rolling down the hill!   

[Tracy 2112]

Which leads me to this.  I am also completely fed up with the stigmatism and hysteria those in the anti-legalization movement are making.  The stereotype that they paint that everyone that smokes weed is a worthless stoner ala Spicolli in Fast Times is a complete joke!  I have several friends who hold prominent jobs and lead productive lives that smoke on a regular basis and no one outside of those in our circle of friends would even know it!  Imagine that!  They aren't becoming degenerate wastes in society and they aren't seeking out harder drugs because we all know marijuana is nothing but a 'gateway' drug after all right?!   

Hear, hear.

We are having huge mind shifts in our society and I think it's great. Information is getting out, thanks to this fancy interweb. The lies they make up about weed to support the war on drugs can longer be suppressed b/c intelligent, rational, responsible people are arguing these "old guard" fears. As a former addict, I tell people all the time, especially parents who are concerned that their teens are smoking weed, > outside the obvious legal ramifications of getting busted with weed, alcohol is a far more powerful and dangerous drug PERIOD. And alcohol is legal. The reality that we live in a society that says it's OK for one drug to be used openly and freely, advertised, profited from, etc...while another less harmful drug be criminalized has always made me skeptical of "the powers that be". Anywho, I have a friend of a friend who has a son (wink-wink) who went all through college and graduate school smoking weed almost daily, delivering pizza at night, graduated with a cumulative 3.7 and got hired first job making over 80k a year. Oh, and he likes The Flaming Lips.

Evolution is still happening; thankfully.

And now, the late great Bill Hicks: (well, the first 8:30 is great)

Bill Hicks-Marijuana

[exist10z]

Just to be a bit of a buzz kill here...

I am all for legalization.  Couldn't be more for it, without reservation, but I don't necessarily think of the actual act of smoking weed as a 'positive'.  I would say it's nuetral at best.  Now, again, legalization is a complete positive.

Speaking as someone who's smoked a lot of weed over a lot of years (preaching to the choir), but who has also spent considerable periods of time abstaining (and currently abstains), I think it's a bit pollyanna-ish to act as if there are no negative consequences to legalization.  For at least some people, any sort of mind alteration has the propensity to become habitual.  Furthermore, a case can be made that people are generally more productive (not just in the traditional economic sense, which I wouldn't defend), when not in an altered state.  I would also contend that there is something noble about facing life's many and varied challenges with a completely clear mind, absorbing the frustrations and difficulties, and growing from them.

This is not to deny that the majority of users simply smoke to enhance their daily/weekly lives, broaden their mental experience, or just alleviate pain or stress; but using it to avoid or evade is less than constructive, and certainly applies to at least some portion of smokers.  There is also the issue of de-stigmatization, which while good and just for current smokers, could lead to an increase in use by those who might otherwise have abstained.

I am not going to go into the positives of legalization, that's been covered and is fairly obvious to anyone with an open mind.  The sole fact that a more harmful drug, alcohol, is not only legal, but heavily advertised and promoted, is enough of a reason on it's face.  And the weight of evidence, in almost every sense, supports legalization.  I also believe the same case could be made for almost every other drug, but it's certainly easier with something as benign as marijuana.

Small steps, maybe this country will start making sense eventually, but I am not going to hold my breath...

[wolof7]

great points by all here, which is what I was hoping and always come to expect from the forum:

It's funny how people (the man) always shunned the alcohol argument when I was growing up and lead me to believe there was a clear distinction between alcohol and other illicit drugs, marijuana included.

I work as a clinical social worker in a hospital and see the ramifications of all drugs all the time. The biggest issue is by far, alcohol bar none, and let me be clear there is a  city that has a methadone clinic on every corner, heroin is an easy get. I see prob at least 15-20 alcohol related admissions per week and I am one of 5 social workers in the hospital where I work and we all see the same. I see at least 2-3 deaths per month around etoh related illnesses and its not an easy death.

Additionally, benzodiazapines (klonopin, xanax, ativan, valium) and painkillers (perc's, vic's, oxy's, etc.) are all legal and prescribed with no regard to the consequences of the severe withdrawal symptoms especially benzo's. Alcohol is also the only withdrawal you can die from which we also see every now and then.

I work on a cardiac unit whch provides cardiothoracic surgery to folks (bypass surg). In 70% of people's social history there is evidence of significant tobacco abuse for many yrs. Additionally many people who abuse alcohol have significant cardiac problems from mid-later yrs of life.

How many hospitalizations related to marijuana abuse or marijuana-related illness have I come across?: 0

That being said I do agree with you exist that pot shouldn't be treated as the savior substance. I know many who do become psychologically dependent on it and as with alcohol, moderation is the most responsible way to use. Also there is no question that it definitely be kept away from developing minds. I also think it needs to be studied more on a general health scale for its beneifts and detractors. I've seen studies where it helps children with autism immensely but I've also seen studies that lend to the argument that  it affects memory later in life.                                                   

[wolof7]

Congrats to Washington and Colorado for hopefully getting that snowball rolling down the hill!   

Ha, even the emoticons promote alcohol, where's our ganja emoticon?

[Taterbug]

Wolof7,  I have a friend that is a a decades long smoker but never inhaled,  I know for a fact his  short term and some long term memory has been affected, and also his  scope of vocabulary has shortened.   

What are we talking about again ?

[Tracy 2112]

Wolof7,  I have a friend that is a a decades long smoker but never inhaled,  I know for a fact his  short term and some long term memory has been affected, and also his  scope of vocabulary has shortened.   

What are we talking about again ?

We were talking about Uranus

[Tracy 2112]

A drug of choice, hardly ever demonized.



Moderation is the key, be it weed, gambling, food, TV, alcohol, etc...
it ain't the substance, it's the person.

[wolof7]

Looks like not many here are for keeping it illegal, and if so, I welcome the discussion.

here is the best source I have found on marijuana law reform: www.norml.com

here is a site where people list there ideas when they are stoned (some are relevatory):
www.highdeas.com