Fun Talking about Jack White at a Party but not really that fun at all.

[rincon2]

I love that this thread was moved to other music, i didn't want to ramble about a bad experience at a party where i couldn't convey my ideas about Jack White's guitar playing to become an off topic rambling and then have it seem like it didn't belong in the right section.  Anywho, great discussion, I have to respond to the idea that you can not play guitar sloppy and precise at the same time.  I believe that you can be sloppy for aesthetic purposes and with that intent in mind you have the ability to be precise in what you attempt to achieve.  Big loud distorted guitars with hammer ons and pull offs is the way i play the guitar, not nearly as well as anyone we listen to but my god i love it.  but as i listen to white blood cells i realize that 75% of the original problem was the individuals i was arguing with and 25% was the irish whiskey inhibiting my ability to explain that i appreciate and love everything Jack White does.  Except Icky Thumb.  Actually i rather liked Icky Thumb but the majority of people i speak to about the Stripes these days claim it was a sub par farewell album.

I have to give lots of love to the person who mentioned Via Chicago. Continually my two favorite bands are Wilco and My Morning Jacket.  Let's keep this debate going with a question:  What is your favorite example of sloppy guitar playing and your favorite of precise playing?

Something a eponymous as the guitar solo in Black Dog. The timing of the whole band sounds off kilter, but it all comes back on track.

[marino13]

Spoon is a band that comes to mind that produce very precise albums with several moments of random talking, laughing, etc. that are supposed to sound "off the cuff" but are really carefully placed to not make the songs seem overproduced.  Precisely sloppy.

[Jaimoe]

Iny Thump rules, just like every White Stripes album.

[Tracy 2112]

Jack White uses terms like expression, rawness, real, screaming poetry, when referring to a Son House song that he earlier called "off time". Sloppy is on the other side of the continuum which he speaks, IMO.

'It Might Get Loud': Jack White's favorite song

In this one, Jack White talks about Meg's drumming as being child-like and quotes Picasso saying "it took my whole life to learn how to paint like a child". He also calls her drumming primitive, primal, limited, boxed in, but he never says sloppy. Sloppy isn't a compliment.

The White Stripes - Charly Rose Interview pt. 1

Sloppy (intentional or not) simply isn't a compliment, it's a negative criticism. There are more appropriate words.

[midwesterner]

I am a huge JW fan but kind of hate most JW & TMR fans. It is very difficult to talk music with them.  Most think Jack can do no wrong. Which IMO is far from the truth. But I am willing to except that opinions are different but most of his fans are not. They see Jack as a god of sorts and that everything he does is gold.
This is really gotten under my skin in recent years because I basically think that TMR puts out 80% crap. Jack choose to work with some god awful bands and I don't understand why.

But again it is all opinion.

PS I saw the White Stripes 27 times including the 10th anniversary show in Glace Bay.

[Ruckus]

Pretty much a perfect American food

[e_wind]

Yes rob. Sloppy IS a compliment.

But why were on the subject of JW and people thinking he "craps gold"... I could never get into any JW other than The Raconteurs. I do think, however, that he is one if today's RnR geniuses, and has secured his spot in history as one of this generations best song writers, along with Thom Yorke. I don't know who else off the top of my head, but maybe Jim one day, and maybe Tweedy one day. Maybe Vedder, but that could be my bias. 

[midwesterner]

Yes rob. Sloppy IS a compliment.

But why were on the subject of JW and people thinking he "craps gold"... I could never get into any JW other than The Raconteurs. I do think, however, that he is one if today's RnR geniuses, and has secured his spot in history as one of this generations best song writers, along with Thom Yorke. I don't know who else off the top of my head, but maybe Jim one day, and maybe Tweedy one day. Maybe Vedder, but that could be my bias.

What is funny is that I never found the Raconteurs "sloppy" enough. One of the great things about TWS was that live they could be super sloppy 1 second then the next be super tight.  Also with TWS there was a surprise element that neither The Raconteurs, Dead Weather or Jack solo out put have been able to capture for me. I saw Jack 5 times last year and I think it was almost the same set list most nights. Only the 2nd night of the Roseland had a really exciting moment and that was during the encore. The solo bands sound great but it is just a little to rehearsed for me.

[johnnYYac]

I am a huge JW fan but kind of hate most JW & TMR fans.

This is really gotten under my skin in recent years because I basically think that TMR puts out is crap

What is TMR?  It's killing me and I fear the answer is obvious.

[oistheone]

Third Man Records! The masters of the gimmick.

[EverythingChanges]

Yes rob. Sloppy IS a compliment.

But why were on the subject of JW and people thinking he "craps gold"... I could never get into any JW other than The Raconteurs. I do think, however, that he is one if today's RnR geniuses, and has secured his spot in history as one of this generations best song writers, along with Thom Yorke. I don't know who else off the top of my head, but maybe Jim one day, and maybe Tweedy one day. Maybe Vedder, but that could be my bias.

I think Jim, Tweedy and Vedder already fit that bill along with Dave Grohl.

[Tracy 2112]

[midwesterner]

Third Man Records! The masters of the gimmick.

Their gimmicks are getting old IMO. Also I hate how they tend to claim they created all of these new formats when in fact they didn't.

But Jack knows how to sell records and seem to be doing a great job at it I just wish it had the sincerity TWS did instead of feeling like a cash grab. I call it a cash grab because how many fucking versions of the TWS albums do we need. There was no need to re-release the first 3 LPs and a bunch of the singles. If you didn't have the originals on vinyl tough shit you missed out.

[oistheone]

The WS reissues actually make sense to me -- there is a huge market for them, and the original pressings on eBay go for ridiculous amounts. TMR has always said that they'll keep 'em print as long as they're in business, which is cool too. Nice to have the option to buy a copy of De Stijl pressed from the original analog masters for $20 instead of an original pressing (which doesn't even sound that good) for close to $100.

It's the glow-in-the-dark, water-filled, scratch-and-sniff records that I'm not a fan of. I mean, I love the idea that they can create these funny gimmick pressings to drum up publicity, but I just hate that people actually pay thousands for these things. You know what, maybe it's the TMR collectors I have a problem with actually...

[e_wind]

Yes rob. Sloppy IS a compliment.

But why were on the subject of JW and people thinking he "craps gold"... I could never get into any JW other than The Raconteurs. I do think, however, that he is one if today's RnR geniuses, and has secured his spot in history as one of this generations best song writers, along with Thom Yorke. I don't know who else off the top of my head, but maybe Jim one day, and maybe Tweedy one day. Maybe Vedder, but that could be my bias.

I think Jim, Tweedy and Vedder already fit that bill along with Dave Grohl.

The problem I have with putting Vedder in is that his band was uber-famous 22 years ago. Their fame has peaked. Radiohead was famous a long time ago, but they're still climbing.

I guess Grohl, though I honestly don't understand why.

[midwesterner]

The WS reissues actually make sense to me -- there is a huge market for them, and the original pressings on eBay go for ridiculous amounts. TMR has always said that they'll keep 'em print as long as they're in business, which is cool too. Nice to have the option to buy a copy of De Stijl pressed from the original analog masters for $20 instead of an original pressing (which doesn't even sound that good) for close to $100.

It's the glow-in-the-dark, water-filled, scratch-and-sniff records that I'm not a fan of. I mean, I love the idea that they can create these funny gimmick pressings to drum up publicity, but I just hate that people actually pay thousands for these things. You know what, maybe it's the TMR collectors I have a problem with actually...

I guess I mind because I did have the original pressings of all of the TWS(including GBMS which I paid a lot for) and it kind of pisses me off that Jack basically deflated the value of those records by repressing them. I guess it is cool that now everyone can own a copy but what about the diehard fans that were buying his albums from the start? I just feel like he doesn't take those people into consideration.

My issue with the Glow in the Dark or Bizarre versions is that TMR doesn't always release the pressing info so people are spending crazy a mounts even though there could be 100 to 1000s of them.  I am fairly certain at this point that for the tri colors there are maybe 100 more printed than what they release.

This is my same issue with the vault I would like to know how many of each are pressed. However I have been very happy with the Vaults out put lately. The Gold Dollar show and jack live at TMR are great.  Now it is time for some 2003 TWS release.

I know it sounds like I am complaining a lot and I really am a huge Jack fan and I think that is why I am so critical of him lately.

[oistheone]

I hear exactly what you're talking about! Their creation of something for no other purpose than to make it collectible kinda takes the fun out of collecting. Especially when, like you say, they deliberately hide facts such as pressing numbers. They pretty much control the secondary market for everything they put out. Kinda shady, really.

[Ruckus]

See Tracy you proved it yourself.  Sloppy seconds are a great thing for all but the prude and the prideful.

And Midwesterner, while I hear where you are coming from, I am always grateful for repressings as a vinyl fan with limited disposable income.  I own some jazz originals from the 50's and early 60's but I would not be angry if Columbia or Blue Note chose to repress again.  The secondary market prices are ridiculous and it makes no sense to deprive fans who want them.

[parkervb]

In this one, Jack White talks about Meg's drumming as being child-like and quotes Picasso saying "it took my whole life to learn how to paint like a child". He also calls her drumming primitive, primal, limited, boxed in, but he never says sloppy. Sloppy isn't a compliment.

The White Stripes - Charly Rose Interview pt. 1

Sloppy (intentional or not) simply isn't a compliment, it's a negative criticism. There are more appropriate words.

Funny enough I got involved in a heated discussion with a "classically trained" drummer about TWS and specifically Meg's drumming. He was a real young guy who knew it all and just kept claiming anyone could do it. I tried to explain this very scene and why it was intentional and even acknowledged by the band that her drumming was simple. He wasn't having it. He also claimed they couldn't be a band because it was just two people. I argued with him for five minutes before realizing he wasn't grasping or even trying to understand the point so I just went back to drinking my beer.

Side note: Charlie Rose is the man.

[Tracy 2112]

So as the conversation went on, i was called white trash and a scumbag and when i politely asked them to leave they wouldn't so the party moved to the deck where we enjoyed drinks and cigars. 

"i was called white trash and a scumbag and when i politely asked them to leave they wouldn't"

Actually, this is the part of your post that I am most concerned with. This is your home? And you just let them stay after they called you names and refused to leave? Are you a sloppy host? Or were you being precisely sloppy?