Red Rocks - August 14

[Woldie]

I thought I enjoyed myself at Red Rocks. Then I read these posts, and realized the error of my ways. I now realize just how much that show sucked.  I apologize to those around me for the lightness of spirit and pure elation I exhibited during the performance.  I hope to experience a real show sometime soon.  Is there any way that I can know ahead of time if a show will be good? It just seems inefficient to have to wait until after the show and after opinions of it have hit the forum.

Again, my humble apologies for my joy.

[Santo]

IF any of you were at RR a few years ago, the crowd was no comparison.  If you can find this concert from RR that aired on Palladia, the crowd is NO WHERE CLOSE to the same caliber.  Red Rocks was ON FIRE during those takes and while it was not a live feed, it was a live concert and the place was I N S A N E.  Please watch that and then watch the stream again....no comparison.  And perhaps that is why I felt let down, perhaps it was the caliber of the crowd around me and the overall environment.  In the end I think it was a mix of both and coupled with my high expectations created a hole for myself.  No biggie really. 

I will leave you with this from an article that was posted a few hours ago.
"While seasoned fans soaked up jam after jam, some casual concertgoers grew fatigued by the sprawling setlist. By the time 11:30 p.m. rolled around, many people sat on the aisle stairs looking bored. But the band still had about an hour's worth of music left to play."

Just wasn't the same. 

I agree it wasn't the same, but it never is, despite similarities in some setlists. They approach the two night runs differently than a one-off show. We don't have Palladia tv in my neck of the woods, but the show on Axs was night two of the two night run. I think a better comparison is the 2011 show. All originals, no covers and a legendary show in of itself.

I think caliber of crowd is a matter of perspective. Friday we were close to the soundboard. The crowd was energized and full of stamina. It felt like it could have gone for another hour. We were at the 2012 shows. The second night we sat at the top. Had a relaxed, phenomenal night. But we saw people leaving early, folks left between the main show and encore, but most stayed. The casual fans that we were with enjoyed night 1 better, the one that wasn't televised. Perspective plays a part in the review too. One person's "sprawling setlist" is another's "career highlight of a show"

The Jambase review had a different perspective than the recent one. It says:

"Not only did they rise to the occasion at Red Rocks but they shattered audience expectations. For over three hours, MMJ dished out 29 songs that covered every one of their seven LP's, showcased material off of their latest album, The Waterfall, hit on all the classics, and even shelled out a few deep cuts for the setlist geeks to drool over."

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Lonndown27]

guys guys guys , this dialogue is getting amazing! you guys are all bringing great thoughts to the table.

WE ARE SPOILED JUST TO HAVE A BAND LIKE MMJ EXIST! Think about that for a moment...think about all the other shit music out there....

I feel the band can play Oxen, Chills, How Do You Know etc all amazing and just dont play them. Think about it, whenever MMJ "makes mistakes" onstage, most of the time you never even notice them, because they're so solid, the chemistry is so high that if one guy or even two are off, the others pull them back in or cover it up, its insane, they make mistakes into new jams hahah. So the excuse of not knowing how to play them, just isn't there for me, they can do it. I think the songs being of a personal nature, as someone up above said, is probably the truest of all of them. How Could I Know, Come Closer seem to be about one lady, Jim's lady around 2002-2004 and I dunno what happened with her, but it probably makes Jim sad to think about. Maybe thats the reason? he should just tough it up and realize we ALL have ruined relationships, and if you're a musician and you're gonna channel that through songs, you've got to understand that if they're amazing songs, they're gonna connect with US. And they DO. So ....tough it up and play them, Jim hahahas .

Guys we are spoiled just to have this band exist, with this discography.
I think RR2012 was better, but the visual aspect the other night wasnt comparable to 2012, it was like watching a movie based on the band, it was nutso and awesome. Set list wise? of course 2012 was better, and the only cardinal sin in my mind was them re-treading so many songs we've seen from RR2012, that have been played at RR. Why not play all songs that havent been played there, especially in 2012?

Oh well...as everyone has said, they can play the most stale on paper looking setlist, and have it be still a life changing show: isnt that the sign of a ONCE IN A LIFETIME band ???

Keep em coming guys I love the dialogues!

[johnnYYac]

From Clinton Reno:

Hi everyone. I'm not sure the best way to reply to all the requests that I've received through all the social media outlets so I thought it best to just throw up a message here and hope that as many people see it as possible?

My plan is to post the remaining Red Rocks prints I have (and sadly I don't have THAT many) on my site at Noon (EST) tomorrow August 18th.

If by some chance I'm not able to get them up then (life with 3 kids makes even the simplest of tasks INSANE, ha!) then I'll edit this post in BOLD to reflect the change in timing.

Side but related note, thank you all for the VERY KIND words over the last few days (and weeks for those asking about previous posters in the tour). You make it easy and exciting to release these crazy things out into the world. Not only has MMJ been a fantastic bunch to create for, but you all as well make it pretty crazy cool.

Clinton

http://clintonreno.com/blog/2015/08/17/my-morning-jacket-red-rocks-release/

http://clintonreno.com/rockprints/

[ericm]

I agree with you 110%. I was at ATL and skipped RR because I was afraid this would happen. I kind of knew that RR wasn't going to get a special set list. The band kind of doesn't do that on these tours post an album. I actually found RR to be good but not great (I just watched the stream) and other than the mix with no bass and the awful hyper cutting of the video the set list was just to familiar to get me really excited.

I do think for the fall tour the band needs to start mixing up the set list more since they are doing so many multi night runs.  But I am not expecting that. I will not be flying out to Boston or NYC. Mostly because the shows are Thanksgiving. If they were another time I would probably hit them. But I would expect repeats during NYC. I bet the first two shows are repeat free but then the 3rd and 4th shows will repeat songs from those nights.

So let me get this straight. A show/setlist with Dondante,Steam Engine, and Phone isn't special?     How many times have you seen one of those? I never have. I've gotten two of the three, and thought THAT was special but never all three at the same show. Do I think RR15 was the best setlist ever? No, but to say it wasn't special is off the mark, IMO.

As far as B4 getting repeats by show three, I think you couldn't be more wrong. T5 five nights/1 repeat. PC three nights/ no repeats. The Wiltern three nights/ no repeats. Chicago three nights/ no repeats. What makes you think they'll only play 2 nights at the Beacon before repeating a song? The precedent has been set, and honestly I don't think we're going to get one repeat over the whole run. Carl himself a couple of years ago said they dig doing multi night shows, and wondered why songs being repeated at them is still a question. Sorry, but I'll take it coming straight from his mouth to my ears over someone speculating otherwise until I see different. So far his words have been spot on fact. 

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not here to fluff the band in any way, just trying to bring a little perspective to the conversation. Frankly your post comes off to me like someone who feels they saw the best couple of shows on the tour,that's your story, and you're sticking to it kind of thing. Almost like you're rationalizing away any possibility other shows might top them, and why bother going to another. I'm glad they played a couple of great shows at The Fox,and you got to enjoy them. I had friends there who did as well. I wasn't able to make them but I did get Chicago, and I was thrilled with those. I'm sure B4 in NYC during Thanksgiving week will be just as special as any shows of the tour. Personally, the multi night runs are my favorites, but I sure do wish I was at RR last Friday. 

[Rex]

How does the saying go?

The thing is the thing, not what is said of the thing.

[Crispy]

How does the saying go?


The thing is the thing, not what is said of the thing.

[Frank G]

So let me get this straight. A show/setlist with Dondante,Steam Engine, and Phone isn't special?     How many times have you seen one of those? I never have.

As far as B4 getting repeats by show three, I think you couldn't be more wrong. T5 five nights/1 repeat. PC three nights/ no repeats. The Wiltern three nights/ no repeats. Chicago three nights/ no repeats. What makes you think they'll only play 2 nights at the Beacon before repeating a song? The precedent has been set, and frankly I don't think we're going to get one repeat over the whole run. Carl himself a couple of years ago said they dig doing multi night shows, and wondered why songs being repeated at them is still a question. Sorry, but I'll take it coming straight from his mouth to my ears over someone speculating otherwise until I see different. So far his words have been spot on fact. 

Look, you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not here to fluff the band in any way, just trying to bring a little perspective to the conversation. Frankly your post comes off to me like someone who feels they saw the best couple of shows on the tour,that's your story, and you're sticking to it kind of thing. Almost like you're rationalizing away any possibility other shows might top them, and why bother going to another. I'm glad they played a couple of great shows at The Fox,and you got to enjoy them. I had friends there who did as well. I wasn't able to make them but I did get Chicago, and I was thrilled with those. I'm sure B4 in NYC during Thanksgiving week will be just as special as any shows of the tour. Personally, the multi night runs are my favorites, but I sure do wish I was at RR last Friday. 
[/quote]

Man o man, did not mean to hit any wrong chords ladies / fellas.  And as I've stated, RR was an incredible show.  BUT, if you look at what was played in Atlanta, then take a peak at RR and see it is very similar.  That is all I'm saying.  And after seeing this wonderful group of fellas for years, YES, I expected more!  I was expecting more than what I heard a few weeks prior.  My example was two "firsts" in Steam > Memories > Steam and Part 1 & 2 together....both firsts and both played in Atlanta, then RR.  That's all I'm saying. 

As far as saying Atlanta was the best show in my opinion, for this tour you would be correct.  But it's just an opinion.  But do not get it twisted as I saw 7 shows this tour, not including OBH II.  In ALL of my years seeing this band, YES, The Fox Theatre is in my top 3-4 shows and best this tour that I witnessed.  Just listen to what Jim says in Atlanta to the crowd.  Mentioning how Atlanta has always been a favorite, how the fans always bring the heat and intensity and they love every minute.  You could see it in their energy and the way they vibe with each other.  Again, just my opinion but I have a pretty good track record to pull from and yes, it was the best by far.  But think about it in this light, they are ON FIRE and playing harder than ever before.  They were said to have peaked years back but yet the media is now saying it again!  How cool is it to be part of this incredible experience.  But as we've all stated, every show is different for every one. 

I am not saying it isn't worth seeing any other shows but they are getting very close to Tedeschi Trucks as I stated earlier....you wouldn't travel to several cities to see them because the set lists are very similar with some change-ups, but over the course of 5-6 shows you get the same material.  They are different and we all understand that fact, but it is the first time I have ever felt that way about this band.  Perhaps that is the major element of my current mental state.

Trust me when I say I'm not here to claim "this is the best show" or "that show was not good".  But I am here to explain my disappointment in RR after seeing them in Atlanta.  That is really all and how this conversations started.  I was curious if anyone felt the same way and wanted basic dialogue for some others thoughts.

I am glad we are getting those here.  But please do not take my words as detriment as all is cheerful.  If you went to RR and had a blast, RIGHT ON!  If you thought it was the most epic show of this century, RIGHT ON!  I am not here to dismiss otherwise.  I am also not here to say the show was a downer or waste.  I am here to say I thought it would be something more. 

But then again, I had the same thoughts about my last pay raise.... 

Love you all.  Hope to see you on the 3rd leg somewhere. 

[dookie shoot bandit]

Touch me pt 1 and 2 were played in succession twice in 2008 behind the evil urges tour.
Once 1 then 2... And another 2 then 1.

[Frank G]

Ahh, my bad....missed that one but I will say playing it 7 years later for the first time (to me) was a blessing.  But same sentiment, hearing it days later after a 7 year hiatus doesn't change my feeling.     

[Lonndown27]

once EVERYONE gets to hear the show, when the live LP is released, all will be disspelled. Those jams on the "hits" are fucking incredible, and definitely MAKE the show special. Its a 3 hour fucking show...what isnt special about that? I was wishing they'd play my chosen rarities but they didnt, and that was ok considering they delivered the best show of the tour, maybe not in setlist, but in energy and giving us crazy good jams that lifted those songs to an elevated level never before touched (IMO) with those songs.

[Mr. White]

I'll probably never be able to afford a trip out west to Red Rocks (or to Mexico, or San Francisco, etc.), but this tour has been a joy for me. I'm relatively new to the band (coming up on 5 years with the 10/29/2010 KFC Yum! Center show being my very first), and I'm loving every single show I've been to (12 MMJ shows & 5 Jim shows). I can't even begin to categorize them. Each show has something special for me to focus on. Everyone has their own opinion, but mine are shaped by proximity to the stage (8 of my 17 shows I've been on the 1st or 2nd row!), how long they played, the light show, who I saw the show with, and the all consuming set list concerns probably come last. To be honest, I don't care all that much about the set list when it comes down to it. Every single song they perform means something to me. If I see the same songs on multiple nights, I don't worry too much about it. Like Ericm said, having Dondante, Steam Engine, and Phone Went West all in one show would be a favorite of mine, had I been there (I did purchase the Live Stream and watched it for about 12 hours of the more than 24 hour feed of the thing). I loved the Red Rocks 2015 show! I will say that the Chicago run of 3 shows with no repeats was an ultimate event for me. We saw 67 songs with only 1 true cover (not counting songs Jim did with The New Basement Tapes as being covers). I'll be happy with that little run back in June of 2015 for the rest of my days. I envy all those people who make the sacrifices to attend as many shows as possible. If I had the money, and fewer family (financial) responsibilities, I would be right there with them. I did quite the job this year with my 8 shows since April 6th! That will have to do...until they kick it into gear a little closer to home in 2016...I hope!

[ericm]

Frank G - I understood your post completely, and had no problem with anything you said. You're certainly entitled to your opinion just like anyone else,. I respect that, and it didn't  bother or offend me in any way. However my post was directed at Midwesterner. I didn't get some of the things he was saying, ie,not a special setlist when it had those three monsters all in the same show.

I also disagree with him on the no repeat thing at B4, and I was just pointing out why I think he's mistaken about the repeats, and also how his post came across to me. It's all good though, we're all fans and can certainly have different opinions, and views on things.  No problem with that at all for me. Just responding to some things I didn't get, and others I don't agree with. I think we all agree though how great this band is, and how much we all love em. 

[Frank G]

@ Ericm, right on right on right on! 

[rdylanoconnor]

Folks, I think we're discussing first world problems here. I personally have no expectations of their shows. I don't care if they play oxen, or how could I know or pepper me with WC, I'm amazed, and OTR. Because the fact is, these guys are incredible musicians who play their hearts out EVERY SINGLE TIME. If you are disappointed that they didn't play a song off your bucket list rather than being awed by their music then, IMO, you're looking at things backwards. What right do you have to expect or strongly hope a professional music band owes you something more?

Been to 25-30 shows and every single one was a damn good time because these guys are special.  My advice, for those who care, is enjoy what's given to you by this incredible band. The minute I leave a jacket show feeling disappointed is the day I'll die.

[Lonndown27]

just sayin but.....My Morning Sweatshirt is the fuckin man!!!!

[Lonndown27]

ok...Frank M...midwesterner, rewatch that opening with Wordless, and when he tells them to cut the lights and hesitates before launching into We Are The innovators They Are The imitators, YOU CANNOT tell me that that part isnt fucking epic as all hell and that that line defines the band and that that moment was that that THAAAAT amazing :) anyone doubting it wont rewatching, INCLUDING ME...I had my complaints but getting to see these guys do what they do for 3 hours and in a 2015 way, ISNT 

all you ladies and gents are amazing, and I think our boys won't be letting up anytime soon. Remember...........WE'RE GETTING ANOTHER LP IN 2016!!!! They spoil us rotten...

[parkervb]

Look at what they were playing back 5-6 years ago...and heck, look at OBH this year!  The amount of covers and off the wall tunes was very nice.  Willie Nelson cover & Waylon Jennings "Don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys"...a few Marley tunes...what?  Chris Issak / Mazzy Star / New Basement Tapes tune as well. 

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the Red Rocks show easily more than any of the OBH shows. Acoustics were obviously a big factor, but quality of the performance is also a biggie for me.

I'm not even sure how OBH can even be considered in any comparison. Especially this year's. Jim's voice now vs where it was at OBH2...HUGE difference.  I tried to listen again the other day after listening to MPP and it was night and day. (also count me in the camp that has them retire the Bob Marley covers)

[dontgetupset]

Let me start by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with Frank that although RR may have been an absolutely amazing in-person experience it surely doesn't seem like an all time great show especially in light of the ATL similarities.

That being said I think many of the more seasoned fans here realize something that is not really spoken about much or articulated in the following terms but that I believe to be undeniably true: This band has 2 sorts of concerts

A) Record company 19-21 song shows with 4-7 Waterfall songs that don't feature horns, special guests, or particularly deep cuts, except ONCE IN A WHILE. For example, an opener might assist on Wonderful or there will be a Lowdown, PWW, Run Thru etc... but not Bob Weir playing Dead songs and not Tennessee Fire played in its entirety.

B) The special shows. Port Chester T5 Wiltern Chicago Beacon OBH etc... At these you get the Oxens of the world, the covers out of nowhere (see all T5 encores), the horns, the surprises and the no repeats (which as Eric has stated will absolutely continue for the Beacon run).

The last Red Rocks appearance seemed to have been more akin to the Type- B special shows and it seems that many were expecting Friday night to be the same but it bore many similarities to a Category A show (despite the length and quantity of songs played).

I love this band but with limited time and money I have literally no desire or thoughts of ever traveling to St Augustine, Miami, Atlanta, Toronto, festivals etc... because I feel that seeing 2 or 3 out of the 4 nights of the Beacon will be so much more awesome than any of these other shows.

Obviously I have to add as Frank did that I adore this band with all my heart and I think that even at their least interesting one-off 19 song performance on a Tuesday night somewhere they are putting out something far superior than almost anybody else in the rock world.

The one thing I'll add and that I've been meaning to say for a long time (please don't get upset) is that despite The Waterfall being a fair album I think it's BY FAR THEIR WORST ALBUM without any comparison. I think it was a major regression and aside from Hillside Song and Get The Point there is almost nothing on it that I enjoy hearing the album version of. This band can make anything sound good live but I think many may feel slightly deprived by only hearing 14 pre-Waterfall songs on a given night.

I know that people will be vociferous in their dismissal of my critique and claim that this band is unable to make anything not perfect but hopefully most realize that even great Rock bands (with the exception of the Beatles) make not good albums. Some like the Stones have some of the greatest albums of all time and a handful of ones that I hope never to listen to again.

I HOPE THERE ARE OTHERS IN THIS FORUM WILLING TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET AND COMMISERATE WITH ME ON THEIR LACK OF LOVE FOR THE WATERFALL. I just wanna know I'm not alone :)

[kholl44]

Even great Rock bands (with the exception of My Morning Jacket) have some not good music