My take on the "leak"

[sweatboard]

i'm not sure of the intent of this discussion, but if anyone is keeping track of the general sentiment of the majority of mmj fans, i'm for downloading an album as long as you purchase it as well.
i try to live by the rule that if i'm not going to buy it, then i'll delete it from my computer.
i also think we should always support bands when they come to your town. it seems like any and everything helps, and buying things and attending shows is such a great way to directly support them and show someone you like the music that they make. it's very encouraging.
of couse i'd like to hear the new album, but i don't think you guys should be begging for the link. that's embarassing and rude, especially on the band's message board.
my few cents.
i'm new by the way, hello all.
-AUSTIN

I doubt the band considers this "Thier Message Board" I would think they probably consider it "ours".  The fact is the album is out now and if you have acess to the internet and a desire to get it, you are going to be able to.  I think this statement   "that's embarassing and rude" is way out of line.  Just my two cents.  

[EC]

I think this statement   "that's embarassing and rude" is way out of line.  Just my two cents.  

I don't find it out of line.  I got cringy, too, with people saying thing like GIVE ME THE MUSIC, or "I know it's probably against what the band wanted, but I really want to hear it."  Or "Their family and friends can listen, why can't we?"

I'm not trying to shout any particular person(s) out, and those are just statements that stuck in my head.  But when the fans start believing that they "deserve" to hear a band's new album, even if the band hasn't released said album, then things get a little screwed.

[aMillionDreams]

EC, I never took you as such a capitalist.  I would have thought you be one of those, the music belongs to everyone, kind of people.  I didn't mean to offend anyone by begging for the link.  But it worked, and I'm listening to the new album right now and I'm not all embarrassed by it. ;D

[EC]

EC, I never took you as such a capitalist.  I would have thought you be one of those, the music belongs to everyone, kind of people.  I didn't mean to offend anyone by begging for the link.  But it worked, and I'm listening to the new album right now and I'm not all embarrassed by it. ;D

Holy crap.

aMillionDreams, maybe you're just being funny? (I hope?)

But no.  I definitely am not one of those who thinks that "the music belongs to everyone."  

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

let's save the insults and general bad vibe.  i think this has run it's course.  there are those who want to download it, and those who think otherwise.

for the record, i echo sir riny in asking that no one post links anywhere on this board to any sites offering the new record (or any other for sale MMJ music).  

Live recordings have always been available for folks to share.  It was always my intention to distribute the live shows, with the band's permission, to anyone who asked for them.  It was never my intention to foster the idea that anyone could or should distribute the band's official catalog, but since torrents and Kazaa and other modes of distribution exist outside of anyone's control, it has become obvious that these things are going to happen, regardless of mine or any other person's intentions.  It is clearly a philosophical choice one makes-by offering the catalog for free, there is little incentive for all who hear it to actually buy it.  

There are those who would argue that they downloaded the record and will therefore buy it.  Kudos to those we've heard from.  Bullocks to the masses we haven't heard from who won't.  I believe that by offering samples, established bands can increase their sales.  It's the CD quality, full album downloads I fret about.

I'm not trying to paint all downloaders as bad people, or "uncool", or trying to win some #1 fan contest.  What I am doing is trying to appeal to your sense of reason, and not post links to any sites offering any of the band's catalog for downloading.

And I swear I'll shut up about it.

[aMillionDreams]

I wouldn't post any direct link, especially since Riny asked us not to.  I'm just not sure what your hang up is about?  I understand that you wish that some fans wouldn't do what they do, but you can't control what other people do, so get off it!  You are obviously someone who is going to buy the CD, so what's stopping you from getting an early listen?  

BTW, if the "let's save the insults" line was directed towards me, how about you save the comments where to tell me what to post and what not to post.  It's getting a little old and last time I checked Riny was the moderator and my my dad lived in Ohio.

[havibulin]

I think it's shitty that this thing leaked. If it was my album i wouldn't like it at all. That being said i don't think that people downloading it will hurt their sales one bit.
we live in a "have to have it right now" kind of world. it's unfortionate in my opinion. one day it could be the end of us...

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I would post any direct link, especially since Riny asked us to.  I'm just not sure what your hang up is about?  I understand that you wish that some fans wouldn't do what they do, but you can't control what other people do, so get off it!  You are obviously someone who is going to buy the CD, so what's stopping you from getting an early listen?  

BTW, if the "let's save the insults" line was directed towards me, how about you save the comments where to tell me what to post and what not to post.  It's getting a little old and last time I checked Riny was the moderator and my my dad lived in Ohio.

WOW!  What's old is listening to people trying to justify distributing an unreleased record!  No shit I can't control other people.  I hadn't noticed that.  

But just like you continue to insist it's okay to do this, I have every right to point out to you that it's not okay.  This IS a message board, after all.

Obviously, you don't get what I'm driving at.

[aMillionDreams]

You're right, I don't understand what you're driving at.  I was trying to get you to make your point clearer.  It doesn't make sense to me that if you're going to buy the album anyway, why you would feel wrong/guilty about listening to it early?  And if you're going to point out that it's not okay to download the album, you should give reasons to support your claim, rather than just dismiss my reasoned arguments as "general bad vibe".  

[biscuitbobo]

i didn't mean to be a part of such a giant, controversial issue...leave that to the suits..I (personally) didn't mean to get under anyone's skin so bad....i wouldn't want to do that..as far as being, "embarrassing and rude", i've tried my hardest to never be either..that's a joke..and when I said, "Give me the music" i guess i didn't add enough stupid smiley faces or hints of light hearted playfulness..it's just music..jeez....screw it, i'll wait till the 2008 winter equinox to hear "Z" if it'll please people on a message board (about music, by the way).....sorry....i guess my zest and excitement didn't translate enough...i guess the band probably won't give me a chocolate chip cookie now :) :) :) :) :)

[BeatTheDiese]

What happened to "Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You?????" I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE that song

[Specialist]

I for one will be waiting for the release date to hear Z, i would never steal from my favorite band, and trust me, it is stealing. What if someone came to your place of work and said "I want what you do for free."  

Do you think they want you to steal their music?  That's basically a spit in the face of the band if you download illegally, especially if you love the band so much that you would post on their message board.  Like saying "Fuck what you guys think, we don't give a shit, you guys cater to us."

i figured it would be a cold day in hell when Jacket fans are at each others throats.

[EC]

Dude.  aMillionDreams.  I think John's been very clear that he's upset because somebody motherfucking else other than the band "decided" that it was okay for them to start distributing this album.  John's been a longtime fan and helper and general special man in regards to this band, and I think it's pretty close to him.  I shouldn't speak for him, but it REALLY gets me fucking riled if people are jumping on him

It's like, if somebody gets a hold of a friend's diary, and lets everybody else read it, and you know there's something really interesting in there, do you read it?

Just because something is "the way it is" does NOT make it right.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Well, I've said three times in this thread that you and I and folks here who post are most likely going to buy the record, but the ones we don't hear from are not as likely to buy it.  And I think that will hurt sales of the record.

Also, as the record is still unreleased, it is not officially "out there" and somehow it's on the internet.  I think that someone along the way violated the band's trust, which is totally uncool.

and the "general bad vibe" is about how this has degraded into an argument that won't get resolved-as I stated previously, there are those who will do this, and those who won't, and no amount of message board posting is going to change that.  slinging terms like "capitalist" isn't helpful, either.

so I hope that makes it crystal clear for you.

[biscuitbobo]

again, i'm sorry.....i love my morning jacket and i love their fans.... :-*

[aMillionDreams]

yeah, that clears it up.  I respect your decision and you don't have to respect mine.  Sorry to use such nasty words as "capitalist", but in my house that's not an insult.  Were you really offended by that, EC?

[biscuitbobo]

honesty is the best policy...hey, at least i'm being honest... :-/, again, maybe we should lighten up.......it seems like this stuff has been dominating music message boards lately...whens the release date on that new Grandaddy (album and ep)?  How about top listens as of late?
mine go like this:
1.  Super Furry Animals-Love Kraft!!!!  (album of the year, but i haven't heard "z" yet)
2.Radar Brothers-Fallen Leaf Pages, somebody needs to hear this album, truly great
3.The Quarter After- rob campanella's band (producer of the tyde, beachwood sparks,brian jonestown, elliot smith,etc..) pysche.country rock ala Byrds and Beachwood Sparks
4.Andrew Bird's Mysterious-so good, it almost makes you want to stop trying to play music
5.DJ Noboby-n/r from LA dj with guest's (Chris Gunst, Mia Doi Todd,etc) includes great reading of Flaming Lips, "what is the light?"
6.The Espers- if you like the "nu"folk stuff, check this one out...the best of this "genre" in my opinion..whatchew' checking out?

[fiftymillimeter]

you got the advance, you didn't.
no reason for folk to stop hanging out.

can't blame the leaker (when you love something so much you want to share it with others who will love it), can't blame the leakees either. it's not a diary, its a commodity - it was built especially to be distributed.

and especially in regards to the folk here, who are obviously fans and respect support the band. we can drop the righteous indignation and the guilt-ridden defense and get back on track.

[EC]

yeah, that clears it up.  I respect your decision and you don't have to respect mine.  Sorry to use such nasty words as "capitalist", but in my house that's not an insult. Were you really offended by that, EC?

No, I wasn't offended by it.  I was surprised.  But more surprised about the other comment.

It's partly because people keep calling me a hippie, and it's totally freaking me out.  I think it's because my hair is long and I've been wearing a lot of t-shirts lately.

And dudes, all of you, I'm serious when I say that I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, or made someone feel like I was shouting out at them specifically (unless I was responding to a specific post).  I HATE conflict.  I seriously hate, hate, hate it, and probably try to avoid it more than I should.  But I don't think this whole discussion was for nothing.  I do think it's important to figure out where you stand about stuff, and to talk about things.  Everybody's contribution into the pile is important to the whole, and if nothing else, you learn.

And learning is good.  And learning is knowledge.  And knowledge is knowing.

And knowing is half the battle.

(Where's that guy's site where he did G.I. Joe PSI's?)

[realdeal]

yeah, i agree. these fans are fanatic. i thought i was a big fan of mmj but good lord! this discussion is becoming absurd.