my $.02 on Z

[utonynashm]

I love you all...*winky-poo*

[ycartrob]

Gripe, if I "enlighten" my brother that he can go ahead and make 2 peanut butter sandwiches because there's more peanut butter than he thought, that doesn't put me in a position of "authority" whatsover; it's simply the passing of knowledge. You're confused.  :-/

[Gripe]

Nope.

[ycartrob]

gripe, you tell me I get the last word, and you respond.

you say it's none of your business, then you post a manifesto.

how 'bout this, Z sounds cheap and some of it is easily the worst material that MMJ has put on record.

that's the sound of me closing the door gripe.

good luck  :-[

[Gripe]

I lied about the last word. I will post responses until I keel over and die.

By the way, what's a door gripe?

[Danko71]

Whoo boy, look what I started. I must say I'm cracking up right now. I don't even know where to start, nor do I have the time. I will say that I've been into MMJ longer than many people on this board (first show early '00), and I have every right to say whatever I want. I like to debate and analyze music; it's fun, at least with people who are willing to give and take and look at things from different points of view...as opposed to people who twist your words into something entirely different, and harp on one single word until their blue in the face.
Having said all that, I listened to the album more this weekend and it is growing on me. There was some initial shock, and that's why I like throwing thoughts out there, to see what others thought. Again, I should've known better than to say anything critical on this board, since most mistake that kind of talk as 'attacks' on the band, which is not true; the more sensible of you out there know that.
p.s. I like Rush, as well as Dylan and Neil's Tonight's the Night. And the Replacement's Let it Be. But none of that had anything to do with what I was talking about.

[ratsprayer]

i dont even care about the "cheap" factor of the debate here.  i think the 'i knew about them before you' logic is the funniest of all.  i was in to the jacket before it was cool, man!  oh my.....

[PapaJoeBear]

Yeah, who cares how long you've been a fan of The Jacket?  We aren't in high school, kids, we're on a message board of a band we all like.  That make us all pretty cool in my book.  I also don't like how people are saying that people are afraid to say anything bad about the jacket, because they think anything MMJ does has to be good.  I have no problem saying I don't like something that a band has done.  I, for one, just happen to like everything they have done.  They are growing as a band. Some bands grow and kind of lose the sound that got me into them, like THe Sea and Cake.  Theses guys just have made all the right moves as far as their sound, in my humble opinion.
Anyway, while you folks argue and the bickering gets more and more silly with each post, just remember that we all post here because of one thing. MMJ.

Rock
PapaJoeBear

[Danko71]

Well I pulled out my show experience to validate my comments. MMJ is one of the bands that I got early on, and I may be a little more protective or overly sensitive towards them, or maybe harder on them in some ways. But it does make a difference if you've seen/heard a band longer. Doesn't mean I'm a 'better' fan though. Basically I've earned my right to say what I feel about this band, regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with me. It'd be different for me to say that if I only heard MMJ through the Coors commercial or whatever. I'm just pissed I'll have to wait to see them since I'll be out of town when they come to Chicago.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

most awesome debating, folks...keep it comin'...

[aMillionDreams]

I don't think that people should shy from writing anything critical of the band, but if you do you are probably going to be debated since this board is full of MMJ fans who love to debate.  If you're looking to totally trash mmj I hear that the Wilco forum is a good place to do so and not too many will debate you.  I think that many of the 'old school' fans will be posting such criticisms in the coming weeks with 'Z' and E-town coming out soon.  So, let's get it on!

[Danko71]

I hear ya, but a debate is an exchange of ideas, give and take, looking at things from different angles...and I don't see a lot of that on this board. It's basically 'MMJ is king, and if you don't like it, you're crazy, or something is wrong with you; please leave'. Sorry but it's true. But again, we'll see what the bigger response is when the 'official' album comes out. Myself, I'm starting to like it. Can't get a couple tunes out of my head, so there ya go.

[SMc55]

 If you're looking to totally trash mmj I hear that the Wilco forum is a good place to do so and not too many will debate you.  

Really? I wouldn't have thought that. I might have a look.

I'm starting to like it. Can't get a couple tunes out of my head, so there ya go.

It's often that way with me. Sometimes I surprise myself when I remember I didn't warm to a song at first.

[aMillionDreams]

Every album has grown on me with time and 'Z' is no exception.  And the good doctor is right, I can't believe I didn't much enjoy the Tennesse Fire the first time I heard but that's the way it goes with good music (and movies for that matter).

[SMc55]

You're so right. It took me ages to get into The Tennessee Fire. Somebody said recently (I think it might have been you, aMillionDreams) that the first album you hear affects how you perceive the others and I'd definately agree. The first album I got was At Dawn, closely followed by It Still Moves. I just didn't 'get' TTF after falling in love with those two. The thing that made me go back and really listen to it, strangely, was hearing songs on the first tribute album that weren't familiar to me. I absolutely love it now, so that's why I won't be upset if Z doesn't say anything to me on first hearing.

[PapaJoeBear]

I hear ya, but a debate is an exchange of ideas, give and take, looking at things from different angles...and I don't see a lot of that on this board. It's basically 'MMJ is king, and if you don't like it, you're crazy, or something is wrong with you; please leave'.

I don't think anyone here wants you to leave, Danko.  
I'm glad that someone can say, hey, I not feeling this tone, song, vibe, ect. And I would like to think that if anyone here feels that way about something the band is doing, that they would speak and speak their mind. The fact that there is not alot of negative stuff coming from the board members might mean that they dig just about all that the band has and is doing.
But I've seen several discussions about people not liking the newer stuff compaired to the 1st 2 albums. Several conversations.
And, after thinking about it, there is 1 song that MMJ has done that I don't care much for at all. That song Holy on the C&I ep.  Never could ge into it.

Not sure if I had a point going into this post, but I know I've totally lost the point now. Whatever.

Rock
PapajoeBear  

[dragonboy]

I don't think that people should shy from writing anything critical of the band, but if you do you are probably going to be debated since this board is full of MMJ fans who love to debate.

I quite agree - we all love the MMJ but no band is perfect (although MMJ is about as close as they come!) & everyone has the right to voice their opinion.
I just think that when it becomes a personal slagging match between 2 people, that's kind of sad. We should be able to debate constructively & still respect one anothers opinions.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

no one has ever been asked to leave, short of abusive folks.  the "debate" is why there is a message board in the first place.  if you don't agree, then debate it...but give good, solid, logical, informed reasons as to why you feel that way.  i of course will call out all bullshitters, so i'm not sure if that makes me "difficult" or nazi like or whatever this is aimed at...but be informed, not just "this tune sucks".  give reasons!

[aMillionDreams]

no one has ever been asked to leave, short of abusive folks.  the "debate" is why there is a message board in the first place.  if you don't agree, then debate it...but give good, solid, logical, informed reasons as to why you feel that way.  i of course will call out all bullshitters, so i'm not sure if that makes me "difficult" or nazi like or whatever this is aimed at...but be informed, not just "this tune sucks".  give reasons!

Oh, bite me!  ;)

[easy way]

Unfortunately, the only songs that I have heard from "Z" are live versions from various shows and much love for 'em. One thing I do know is great, timeless artists and when you look at bands such as Pink Floyd or The Beatles, there is a natural evolution to each new album. If Floyd released 15 Syd albums like Pipers, I think we'd all be a little too tripped out. I feel it is best to embrace the change and respect the artists of whom we are obvious nerds for.