Is Gideon about ultraconservatives/Iraq/Vietnam?

[Jose F Martinez]

I've read it's about "spirituality" but it sounds to me like a clear, strong (and beautiful) political statement about ultraconservative politics, the Iraq war and its similarities to Vietnam.  Just read these excerps with that mindset and it'll become obvious what they are talking about and who the animal is exactly:

Religion, should appeal to the hearts of the young...
Truly. Truly we have become...
Hated and feared for something we don't want.
Listen. Listen.
Most of us believe that this is wrong.
You animal. Come on.
What does this remind you of?
Animal. Come on.
What does this remind you of?

[sweatboard]

That sounds like a pretty acurate take to me.  Jim mentioned that Gideon was the name of a really annoying and intrusive Bird that took over a household with it's constant Gawking.  I think the bird probably reminded Jim of our current administration.

[Drunkre]

Nice take on the meaning of the song there, but isn't the lyric "Religion/Shouldn't be in the hearts of the young" ?

Mentioning that, has anyone heard the new David Gray song, "You're The One I Love" ?  He has a lot of lyrics about bullets and tracers in that one too.  Let's remember England is at war as well.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I've thought that it was about the war in some way (Iraq) but I hadn't thought it was a comparision between Iraq and Vietnam...

[ratsprayer]

i thought it was comparing the two wars, or comparing the current regime here to stalin, hiter, pol pot, or any horrible government in the past.  fuck the neocons, and the certain country theyre listening to!    >:(

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

yeah, it's a sad state of affairs these days....hopefully, it will implode here directly.

[tomEisenbraun]

The line is "Religion should appeal to the hearts of the young"

There's an article about this one. Basically it was written about two things: Jim was listening to NPR and there wasthis story about a bird that this woman owned that got really overprotective of here, and when she had kids it HATED the kids. It started squawking at them and attacking them, just being nuts. The second part is about Jim's frustration with all the intricacies and fickleness of organized religion. When I asked Patrick about it, looking for more, he was hesitant to tell me that before he found out about the interview, and wanted me to have the song takes it own meaning with me as i interpreted it.

So it's really not about war or current regimes or anything of that sort, but if it speaks to you in a way that lets you vent about that stuff, then great. I think they would have wanted that.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

hmmm  I always thought the line was "religion...should it appeal to the hearts of the young" which is slightly different.

(runs to car to get Cd liner notes...)

[Mudbutt]

The name Gideon could also be related to "The Gideons" which is the name of a non-profit religous group who, among other acts of kindness, place Bibles in hotel rooms.

[Jose F Martinez]

I believe you they said that, but I still think it's about the US, conservative politics, and war than a bird.  Maybe they didn't want to turn it into a political issue or something (which is probably smart; and more elegant/productive than shouting "fuck Bush every two songs"). But you need some tortured reading to make it about  a bird in some house when the antiwar statements are right there in the surface.

There's an article about this one. Basically it was written about two things: Jim was listening to NPR and there wasthis story about a bird that this woman owned that got really overprotective of here, and when she had kids it HATED the kids. It started squawking at them and attacking them, just being nuts. The second part is about Jim's frustration with all the intricacies and fickleness of organized religion. When I asked Patrick about it, looking for more, he was hesitant to tell me that before he found out about the interview, and wanted me to have the song takes it own meaning with me as i interpreted it.

So it's really not about war or current regimes or anything of that sort.

[tomEisenbraun]

I believe you they said that, but I still think it's about the US, conservative politics, and war than a bird.  Maybe they didn't want to turn it into a political issue or something (which is probably smart; and more elegant/productive than shouting "fuck Bush every two songs"). But you need some tortured reading to make it about  a bird in some house when the antiwar statements are right there in the surface.

Yeah, I guess the fact that I actually asked the band about it doesn't really make much of a difference either. I would show you the article, but we've lost our Press section.

Straight from Patrick and  the article - it was written half about the bird story on NPR and half about where organized religion stands. Like I said, if it's somehting that backs up what you think about the war, or if you like ot listen to it because it says something to you like that, then great. But it isn't what the song was written about.

[aMillionDreams]

It means whatever you want it to mean.

I think it's about Jesus, not the deity, the bowling child molestor in the Big Lebowski.

[tomEisenbraun]

okay, i think this distinction needs to be made.

There's two different levels of meaning:
1. the artist's intent
2. what the song means to you

1) The artists intent is fairly obvious. what the guy meant while writing it is what he means. that stands. you cannot change that meaning, no matter what, unless he decides that it's changed for him. If he decides to let you know that, awesome. I just ehard an interview with Jim where he was talking about people who always ask "what does this piece mean" in reference to art, and "Off the Record" was his reaction to that. Sort of a "screw that, just listen and take it for yourself". Which leads us into...

2) What it means to you. This can stand independent from the artist's meaning, or it can be entertwined with it. But it is NOT the basis of the song's meaning. An artist may mention that they want the listener to create their own meaning, but I believe what they are saying in this statement is not so much that what the artist meant is irrelevant, but that they want the song to have a life of it's own for the listener, and not just be cut and dry, but that they want the listener to relate to it. The fact that you may "think" a song means something, while the song may mean something to you in that certain, does not necessarily mean that the song is about that. It's not something you can argue. The song is about what the artist meant it to be about. You can argue about what you think it means if the meaning is never stated, but to argue against the artist saying that you don't care what they meant, because its about (fill in your high and mighty blank) is ignorant, because you do not outweigh the artist on this issue.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I think that, lately, that distinction has been needed to be addressed.

[aMillionDreams]

oh, now I get it.  There is an objective and a subjective part of music... that sounds oddly familiar.  

Thanks for saying it in a way that everyone can agree with, Tom.  I'll be just go back into hiding now...

[tomEisenbraun]

Haha. I finally trumped you.  ;)

yeah, i figured it needed to be clarified that, no matter what you think the song is about, it's still what the artist wrote it to mean. And I've been seeing that challenged a bit recently about a couple tunes from the new record. I think someone went to say that they felt Dondante was about their friend, which is not true. It was about the guys' friend. It can conjure up emotion in you to mean a lot in respect to the situation you went through, and how everything went and who the person was. It may mean a hell of a lot to you in regards to that aspect, but it's still about Jim's friend.

[EC]

I thought it was about the Muppets.  :-/

[sweatboard]

I thought it was about the Muppets.  :-/

Yeah, aren't all thier songs though. :-/

[Jose F Martinez]

Yeah, you're still doing a pretty good job of it kid. Can't imagine what you must be like when you try.

okay, i think this distinction needs to be made.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I think that, lately, that distinction has been needed to be addressed.

[EC]

Yeah, you're still doing a pretty good job of it kid. Can't imagine what you must be like when you try.

NO WAY, JOSE.  Lay off Tom.   >:(

[ratsprayer]

NO WAY, JOSE.  Lay off Tom.   >:(

sorry, youre just being misinterpreting this.  its not wot jose wrote that statement about at all!!