Steam Engine Lyrics - Interpretation?

[CC]

I don't know who this Hallihan dude is but here's a little q and a from american songwriter....

[aMillionDreams]

Thanks, CC.  It's always nice to know where the boys weigh in on things.  I still think that there is an objective and subjective meaning to some songs.  Like Wonderful Man or Give Peace a Chance, but unlike Louie Louie and Steam Engine, apparently.  I guess I've spent too much time analyzing lyrics by Bob Dylan and others who have a different approach to writing lyrics.

It's just the way that he sings...

[ratsprayer]

*struts*

[Coltrane]

exactly...if Jim didn't want anyone reacting to his songs or feeling something subjective, he wouldn't record them or release them or play them in front of people.....

[ycartrob]

Ramblings

 What about instrumentals? Instrumentals (and music, in general) evoke feeling, no need to argue over the interpretation of words and lyirics, right? I can't really argue that In Memory of Elizabeth Reed (Allman Brothers) does not make you feel a certain way when you hear it, that would be silly. So the "meaning" is subjective. Unless you want to find out what the writer's mood was during writing and recording or if there was intent. (And when I heard that ELizabeth Reed's name was on a tombstone where the Allman Brothers used to hang out in a cemetary, it did change it a little).

Can the same not be said about lyrics? Does language make it too concrete? I mean, is "Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye" really to be taken at face value? Or was John Lennon implying something?

Words have to have concrete meaning in order to communicate (in some situations). So do some sounds (a car horn, a phone ringing). Now, a phone ringing may mean a couple of things or it may evoke a feeling from the past or a memory (it's limitless). Words can do the same.

Steam Engine probably means something different for everyone here, depending on what was going on in your life when you heard the song the most, or used the song the most, or discussed the song the most,  or what it reminds you of, or core stuff, etc...

It's like trying to interpret the Bible. You can argue over the semantics, then the message is lost.

So, is the lesson here, never argue religion, politics, and song lyrics?

[pizza guy]

no, it means everyone has their own way of interpreting this or any other song.  kinda like arguing that coke tastes better than pepsi because someone says so.  everyone has their own take on the meaning of the lyrics, the writer himself as well.  there might be agreement among people on what they think it means, but is that more valid than someone thinking steam engine is about having a frankfurter in august at the state fair?  i think not.

[aMillionDreams]

no, it means everyone has their own way of interpreting this or any other song.  kinda like arguing that coke tastes better than pepsi because someone says so.  everyone has their own take on the meaning of the lyrics, the writer himself as well.  there might be agreement among people on what they think it means, but is that more valid than someone thinking steam engine is about having a frankfurter in august at the state fair?  i think not.

But if no interpretation is right or mre valid than any other, what's the use in talking about it.  As Dylan says, "What's the use in talkin to me, might as well be talkin to you".  But then again those lyrics are up to "interpretation".

[marktwain]

I agree with you, aMD.  I find it surprising, I guess, that so many people, including Jim, seem to think that a listener's interpretation of a song is more important than the artist's intent.  What's the point of following Madonna's advice to "Express yourself" if you don't care if the audience understands what you are trying to express about yourself?

[ycartrob]

Tundra, that's the beauty of it though; to express yourself, throw it all out there, get it out (John lee Hooker said, "It's in me and it's got to come out"). Who cares what the audience understands and gets? Not being tied down to having to explain why you did something or what it means, etc...is a beautiful existence. Let it be.

Take Iggy Pop and his early days with the Stooges. Iggy was geting all that weird shit out of him, and I guarantee not many in the crowd felt exactly like Iggy, but, they could relate.

It's about relating, not feeling exactly what the band or singer feels (or worrying if the audience understands you).

That's why so many people freaked out when little Bobby Dylan went electric. People wanted to crucify him because they did not understand Dylan's expression of himself. Screw that (and that's what Dylan said).

Expressing oneself is liberating, it frees you. Expressing yourself and being worried if your audience doesn't get it is binding and forced. (IMO).

[EC]

Ah your Dignan quote is killing me.  So lovely.

I think the thing to remember in this argument, as well, is that every songwriter feels differently.  Some people really want to be clear and expressive and have people understand what they're doing.  Other people like to be mysterious, if they even think that far in depth about it.  I was on stage the other night and our bass player asked me what a song was about, and I told her, and she had thought it was something totally different.  That happens with me and Shelby at home all the time.  And it might be that Shelby really wants people to know what a song is about, and it might be that I know where it came from from me, but know that other people might find something different in it, or vice versa, and it's just the way you work.  If we go back to Steam Engine, I think it's pretty safe to say that the images I've got in my head are not what Jim James had in his head when he was making that song, but because it's my body that's taking it in, that's just how it manifests itself there.

But so many people feel differently about this.  My aunt and uncle are poetry doctors (they have their doctorates specializing in certain poets), and they are ALL about analyzing poems and trying to figure out what the real meaning is behind what was written.  And I hate that because I like to think about what I think about it.  But it doesn't matter - that's how they like to experience poetry, and I have my way of how I like to experience poetry.  It doesn't mean it's not interesting to talk about, or that it leaves no room for discussion, it just means that people have different ways that they like to experience art.

That's my take on the sitch at hand.  

[marktwain]

I get what you're saying, Tracy.  I can see how an artist has to know that his/her work is subject to interpretation, esp. if lyrics are left intentionally vague.
And I can see how the artist can't worry too much over whether he is understood, or he'll go mad.  
And I can appreciate that it would be satisfying to know that your song has moved someone, regardless of whether that someone completely understood you.

Like EC's Aunt & Uncle, I am a poetry fan, and maybe I place too much importance on the lyrics, though I try not to dissect, or analyze, so much as feel and understand.

Jim says, "It doesn't matter what I want you to get out of it"  But I can't believe that he's being completely truthful.  If that's so, he might as well be speaking gibberish.  He writes songs, and, I'm sure, agonizes over them to some extent, in order to communicate something, and I really want to understand what he wants to communicate.

By the way, CC, I think I recognize that quote from the Velocity interview.  I remember reading it and being a little troubled by it.  In fact, during that whole interview, I had the feeling that Jim was playing games, Dylan-style, with the interviewer, who just didn't seem to get it.

[cigaros]

Isn't there a lot of gibberish going on in Steam Engine? It's my favourite part.

Why does my mind blow to bits every time they play that song?
It's just the way that he sings,
not the words that he says, or the band.
Im in love with this soul, it's a meaning that I understand.

[CC]

By the way, CC, I think I recognize that quote from the Velocity interview.

no, it's not.
like I said, from american songwriter.
no gameplaying.

[SMc55]

Isn't there a lot of gibberish going on in Steam Engine? It's my favourite part.

There's a lot of gibberish in many of Jim's songs. But they're still beautiful. Like abstract paintings can be beautiful.

[ycartrob]

Some of this reminds me of a Bible study I went to once.
A passage from Luke was read and we were all going around in a circle, talking about the passage. There were a lot of seminary students in the room, and they were all pontificating about Paul, and what Paul was struggling with when he wrote this, and what Paul was meaning to say, etc...When it got to me, I talked about what the passage made me feel and how I use this passage for strength in my every day life.

As with Steam Engine, why argue over what Jim is saying or meaning? Stick with what's important, what it makes you feel.

I know it's fun to agree/disagree about lyrics and meaning, but it's a fruitless venture. Focus on what it means to you and what it makes you feel.

I mean, does it really make a difference that Steam Engine is about James Watt and being in Greenock, Scotland? No. What matters is what you feel (to borrow from Jay Farrar).

[saki]

It's about relating, not feeling exactly what the band or singer feels (or worrying if the audience understands you).

Yeah, I really agree with that Tracy.  Like that song, "A Simple Twist of Fate" by Dylan - I think this song is about Bob's break-up with his then wife as is most of the other stuff on BOTT.  Even though I'm pretty sure I know what the artist was writing about and what it means to him I can also relate to the song and relate to the feelings expressed in it.  But, then again Dylan and James are pretty different in their styles of writing.  

As for Steam Engine, I was listening to it earlier today and when I listen to it I'm often reminded of Bonnaroo 04 and how fucking awesome it was to be alive in that place and time.  So, I just think Steam Engine is about being stoked to be alive whether it's because of love for another, or because you're at Bonnaroo, in the rain, freezing and loving it, or whatever else...

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

What's so cool about "Steam Engine" (and many other songs, of course) is that the first 100 times you hear it without looking at the lyrics, you might project all kinds of things onto it.  Ultimately, whether you've got the lyrics in front of you or not, this song has an emotional quality to it that grabs you by the heart and shakes it about.  I'm sure we can all agree on that.

[Coltrane]

absolutlely, John! This argument has gone all Ratt on this forum (that is, 'round and 'round)....the main thing to remember is that both the listener (or viewer) and artists' meaning of a work is valid. simple as that.

in that interview, Jim is trying to tell all of us to use the songs to feel something. Don't worry about some absolute meaning unless that suppossed meaning helps you to feel something about the work .


this is art thoery, folks. has been debated for eons.


kudos to the forum for keeping it healthy!!

[marktwain]

no, it's not.
like I said, from american songwriter.
no gameplaying.

Oops!  I really wasn't trying to second-guess you.  I didn't notice that you had told us where the interview was from. :-[

[marktwain]

Ultimately, whether you've got the lyrics in front of you or not, this song has an emotional quality to it that grabs you by the heart and shakes it about.  I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Definitely agreed!

For the rest, I'm not convinced, and I'm sure I'm not convincing anyone else - so I'll shut up.
 :)