Concept Album

[Goat Boy]

Originally, Pete wasn't a mod and neither was anyone in The Who. The were late to the movement. They inevitably were embraced by mod pop culture and adapted to some of its characteristics accordingly.

It's true that they used aspects of mod culture and incorparted them into their act - the clothes and the style partly at the behest of Stamp etc.  And herculean amounts of speed of course!  However nothing is free of artifice.  It's a commercial product.  But they were closer to the scene than you suggest and Petes ideas and inspirations, for example, the theory of auto destruction intellectually connect him with modernism more than the criminally underrated but more simplistic Small Faces.  Pete saw something in the mods that he saw in himself - a kinship I think.  And they also created the 2 ultimate Mod anthems - Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere and The Kids Are Alright

[Goat Boy]

uh, Roger Waters wrote most of the best Floyd material, so he's obviously not a cunt if you're even a casual fan.  is The Wall overplayed insofar as its radio singles?  Yes.  But, if you're older than 35 you'd remember The Wall was a pretty far out record in its day, in comparison to the dredges that make up the competition.  

I think the closest MMJ has gotten to a "concept" album would be Chocolate and Ice, with the exploration of funky beats on Cobra and the soaring melody of Sooner alongside the billowing-but-fantastic Can you feel the hard helmet on my head?

Radiohead's Kid A is my favorite concept album, with Rush's 2112 close behind.  Some other examples from my collection:

The Grand Illusion - Styx
Paradise Theater - Styx
Yes-Tales from Topographic Oceans

Syd Barrett wrote the best Floyd material. See Emily Play is finer than anything that turd Waters has ever penned. Jugband Blues is more moving. Astronomy Domine is more out there. And so on.  

Dredges? 1979 was a fucking great year for music. You have the whole the burgeoning post punk movement for crying out loud! The Wall, in comparison, sounds like the bloated self obsessed piece of archaic crap that it is. A relic.  Moribund. A joke.

Some 1979 records....

Talking Heads - Fear Of Music
Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
Clash - London Calling
Elvis Costello - Armed Forces
Pere Ubu - New Picnic Time
Gang of Four - Entertainment
Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps
Jam - Setting Sons

And so on. Dredges? Your mad!  Mad I tells ya!!

[Goat Boy]

To clarify: personal preference aside you cannot debate the popularity of The Wall. As self indulgent and "whiney" as it is, it was the most successful concept album of the 70s

I'm not debating the commercial success of The Wall am I? Besides, what has popularity got to do with artistic success? Nothing. If it were we'd all be wanking over Celine Dion and The fucking Eagles rather then grooving to The Velvets or Big Star. You said The Wall is the 'standard' that suggests, as concept albums go, it's amongst the finest. It is not. Perhaps you want to listen to the middle aged adolescent winnings of a millionaire rock star but I sir would rather give my Dad a sloppy blowjob. The Wall stinks worse than my unwashed cock. You mentioned The Who. The Who have 3 concept albums – Sell Out, Tommy and Quad – that shit on The Wall from such a great height that by the time the turd hits that cunt Waters cranium it's a frozen scat missile that's gonna knock that douchebag clean out! Pow!  When I think of great concept albums I think of Sorrow, We're Only In It For The Money, Arthur or Zen Arcade.  The Wall doesn't even come close.

still the first example cited by the average person if you ask them what a concept album is.

You say it like it's a good thing! Is that supposed to be a positive? Cos Joe Bloggs in the street has heard of it well it must be swell and the standard as to which all others are judged. Ask Joe Bloggs if he knows about Laura Nyro or Todd Rundgren. Huh? Todd Wolfgran?  Your average punter knows little or nothing about music.

yes, it is wildly popular but that doesnt mean it would ever be embraced by the average music fan

Oh dear. Newsflash. Your average Floyd fan is as much some burnt out hippy relic as a 40 year old accountant called Martin who has dinner parties soundtracked by the obnoxiously smooth sounds of Sade or Dido. In fact the ratio is probably a few hundred thousand to one. Have you ever met any Floyd fans? The Floyd are, for many, a badge of counterculture cool for very uncool people who own about 20cds and buy about one every couple of months. Probably a Coldplay album or something equally smooth and inoffensive to accompany that dinner party on Saturday.  Perhaps some Shania Twain.  Bands don't sell THAT many records without having a decent percentage of their audience being the lowest common denominator 'average music fan'.  My mate, for example, knows nothing about music really.  When I met him he mostly listened to Wu Tang (who are great obviously) but he liked The Floyd of course - even if he had no idea who Syd Barrett was.  I introduced him to Syd's music.  Many Floyd fans are like this in my experience.  More so than perhaps any other of the big hitters imo.

As for the comparison to The Who, mention of Quadrophenia, etc: I used the Who in comparison because its from the same period.

I also think lyrically it would connect more with the audience like Quadrophenia. That doesnt mean it has to capture a youth movement

So they're from the same period, so what? The Who and The Floyd are diametrically different as bands and so are those two records - the only similarity is a 'concept'.  Why don't you compare Can To The Floyd instead?  One is full of life, vigour and youthful energy.  The other is self obsessed psychobabble.  Comparisons like that are pointless.  If you're gonna compare The Wall to something then it should be, say, Plastic Ono Band which, in turn,  I'd compare to The Who By Numbers.  The only similarity to Quadrophenia being that it 'connects' more with the audience apparently? There are many people who connect with The Wall as well judging by its record sales which dwarf Quadrophenia's by the way. It's second only to the dull, dull, dull Dark Side in that respect. Certain Floyd fans identify with that album as much as The Who fans who identify with Quadrophenia you know?  I've met them.  

instead of itching to say "c*nt" again.

Why the asterix?  Can't you even TYPE the word?  Cunt.  Oops.  Cunt.  I did it again! Cunt, cunt, cunt.  Goat Boy is a cunt!  Big hairy sweaty fat cunt.  These are words!  Relax.  I use the word cunt all the time. It's common as muck over here. A term of affection.  I'm not angry at all. It's just my style. Besides conflict and shit like this brings out DEBATE which is what these things – messageboards – are here for no?  

OK, you can be angry again

I ain't angry.  I've just spent an hour flinging arrows at my homemade Roger Waters dartboard.  Better than meditation I'd say!  

[BH]

Must......keep......mouth.......shut......

[mjkoehler]

I was wondering when you were going to chime in on this one. Probably best to walk away my friend.  ;)

[Goat Boy]

C'mon, slag the Floyd!  Iconoclasm is healthy!  Tear these motherfuckers down!  I actually have a grudging respect for them and for Waters in particular.  But it's a case of ever diminishing returns I'm afraid.  Piper is a masterpiece, the magnum opus of English psych and one of the greatest albums ever made.  Meddles alright.  Saucerful Of Secrets (great title), More and Obscured By Clouds are especially weak.  Atom Heart Mother is actually one of their better albums.  Dark Side is the dullest 'classic' album ever though.  Animals with its hilariously unsubtle use of Orwell's Animal Farm as an analogy - humans are, like, animals maaan sums up the intellectual might of Waters.  Not as unsubtle as the sound affects on Dark Side though eh?  A cash register on Money.  Brilliant Rog!  Keep these ideas comin!  The clocks on Time.  Woooah what drugs were these guys on?  Cool sleeve though.  The Wall is pish obviously.  Wish You Were Here has its golden moments amidst the laborious languor's but I can't be arsed waiting for them.  I'd rather listen to 10cc frankly.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

uh, Roger Waters wrote most of the best Floyd material, so he's obviously not a cunt if you're even a casual fan.  is The Wall overplayed insofar as its radio singles?  Yes.  But, if you're older than 35 you'd remember The Wall was a pretty far out record in its day, in comparison to the dredges that make up the competition.  

I think the closest MMJ has gotten to a "concept" album would be Chocolate and Ice, with the exploration of funky beats on Cobra and the soaring melody of Sooner alongside the billowing-but-fantastic Can you feel the hard helmet on my head?

Radiohead's Kid A is my favorite concept album, with Rush's 2112 close behind.  Some other examples from my collection:

The Grand Illusion - Styx
Paradise Theater - Styx
Yes-Tales from Topographic Oceans

Syd Barrett wrote the best Floyd material. See Emily Play is finer than anything that turd Waters has ever penned. Jugband Blues is more moving. Astronomy Domine is more out there. And so on.  

Dredges? 1979 was a fucking great year for music. You have the whole the burgeoning post punk movement for crying out loud! The Wall, in comparison, sounds like the bloated self obsessed piece of archaic crap that it is. A relic.  Moribund. A joke.

Some 1979 records....

Talking Heads - Fear Of Music
Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
Clash - London Calling
Elvis Costello - Armed Forces
Pere Ubu - New Picnic Time
Gang of Four - Entertainment
Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps
Jam - Setting Sons

And so on. Dredges? Your mad!  Mad I tells ya!!

In comparison to the concept albums and rock music in general of that year...the albums you list aren't even comparable in that they aren't of the same subgenre that The Wall exists in.  Punk music is different genre altogether, now isn't it?  Yes, it has its roots in rock musc (hence the term "punk rock") but you can't actually put Gang of Four next to Pink Floyd and say "stylistically speaking, this is the same shite".  Apples and oranges.  

I'm thinking more on the lines of things like The Bee Gees, The Knack, disco, etc. being the dredges of 1979...not anything like Wire, The Buzzcocks, Raincoats, etc.

[Goat Boy]

In comparison to the concept albums and rock music in general of that year...the albums you list aren't even comparable in that they aren't of the same subgenre that The Wall exists in.  

What a bizarre opening statement.  I'm almost lost for words.  Almost. You don't think London Calling is a rock n roll record?  Is Rust Never Sleeps not a ROCK record?  Of course it is!   Have you heard these albums?  What would you call Unknown Pleasures?  Punk?  New Wave?  Who cares what narrow minded little genre it belongs too.  It's irrelevant.  The only relevant question is – is it any bloody good?  You'd think I was trying to compare some album of Albanian spoon music or something.   ::)

And what, pray tell, is the subgenre The Wall exists in?  Tedious, middle class angsty shit?  It's all music mate – rock, punk, prog whatever the hell you want to call it.  To stick them in their own small musical boxes and never debate the relative merits of records is silly.  Unbelievable really.

Besides, who gives a fuck about purely concept albums?  What is this, 1974 and were all wearing Kaftans?  Why don't we talk about Magma?!  That would be cool!  If you're only gonna compare concept albums released in 1979 which apparently is the only worthwhile comparison to make according to your opening statement (or whatever sub genre The Wall belongs to) then that's a pretty short list is it not?  Unless you want to compare it to some tedious Yes or Rush drivel.  Why put such limitations on it?  Why narrow the playing field?  WHY DEAR GOD?

Punk music is different genre altogether, now isn't it?  Yes, it has its roots in rock musc (hence the term "punk rock") but you can't actually put Gang of Four next to Pink Floyd and say "stylistically speaking, this is the same shite".  Apples and oranges.  

I'm thinking more on the lines of things like The Bee Gees, The Knack, disco, etc. being the dredges of 1979...not anything like Wire, The Buzzcocks, Raincoats, etc.

Who said anything about that?  No but I can put them together and say one record is clearly better than the other.  Who cares if stylistically they are different?  It's men with guitars and shit at the end of the day.  These albums aren't comparable?  Put aside all this bullshit subgenre nonsense and judge them on the quality of the music.  That is all I ask.  

And the Bee Gees kick post Syd Floyds ass.  Odessa is better than anything that goon Waters ever managed.  Their sixties albums, especially, are loaded with gems.  

Next time a magazine runs one of these stoopid TOP 100 ALBUM things I'll be sure to tell them that it's pointless comparing albums from incompatible sub genres and that they should have a top 100 list for every single sub genre known to man.  I eagerly await the Top 100 Middle Class Angsty Shit albums of all time.  The Wall will no doubt walk it.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Jesus, put down the meth for a minute.  Obviously you think The Wall and Roger Waters suck.  The title of the thread is "Concept Album", so excuse the fuck out of me for thinking we were discussing concept albums-and I likely compared the concept albums of the late 70s to the current discussion as that's probably the last period in music that I'm aware of that had such a swell of progressive rock concept albums.  Yeah, it's "all music", I get that...but how do you compare/contrast what you think is good as opposed to what others think is good?

Fuckin' London Calling is whatever you want to call it, but you can't put it next to 2112 and say "it's all the same".  IT'S NOT.  

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Also, how old are you?  Were you around and old enough to know how weird the Wall was in 1979, compared to say, The Knack?  

[BH]

Besides, who gives a fuck about purely concept albums?  

LOL.   ;D Apparently you do, considering you registered just so that you make six long high and mighty posts about the subject.  Jeeesh.

[Jon T.]

Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

[Goat Boy]

Jesus, put down the meth for a minute.  Obviously you think The Wall and Roger Waters suck.  The title of the thread is "Concept Album", so excuse the fuck out of me for thinking we were discussing concept albums-and I likely compared the concept albums of the late 70s to the current discussion as that's probably the last period in music that I'm aware of that had such a swell of progressive rock concept albums.  Yeah, it's "all music", I get that...but how do you compare/contrast what you think is good as opposed to what others think is good?

Fuckin' London Calling is whatever you want to call it, but you can't put it next to 2112 and say "it's all the same".  IT'S NOT.  

Oh I'm sorry but do threads have to run along linear lines around here?  Why don't you answer my points eh?  You seem to think Rust Never Sleeps aint a rock record and therefore can't be compared or judged alongside The Wall.  TOTAL SHITE.  And you're one of the senior members around here?  You're speaking pish man.  The first post said Evil Urges was a concept album.  It ain't so it's a thread started about an record that isn't even a concept album.  Why can't we just discuss things in a free flowing manner instead of being anally retentive about it.  

I wasn't aware I had to be around at the time to comment on an album or a band.  I know the context of the times mate.  The Wall, weird?  Peking O by Can is weird.  Lick My Decals Off Baby is weird.  The Wall ain't weird.  Well, it may have been weird to a 12 year old kid but not to anybody over the age of, say 18.

[Goat Boy]

Besides, who gives a fuck about purely concept albums?  

LOL.   ;D Apparently you do, considering you registered just so that you make six long high and mighty posts about the subject.  Jeeesh.

That's right.  Take a quote and use it out of context.  I couldn't care less about concept albums like The Wall but I do care about people posting rubbish that calmly declares The Wall to be The Standard by which all concept albums are judged which is a bullshit conclusion  Yeah?  That's where all this sprung from?  Fuck me.

[Goat Boy]

Also, how old are you?  Were you around and old enough to know how weird the Wall was in 1979, compared to say, The Knack?  

Why don't you answer my post properly instead of questioning my age?  

[cmccubbin25]

i thought British people were supposed to be "jolly"?

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Jesus, put down the meth for a minute.  Obviously you think The Wall and Roger Waters suck.  The title of the thread is "Concept Album", so excuse the fuck out of me for thinking we were discussing concept albums-and I likely compared the concept albums of the late 70s to the current discussion as that's probably the last period in music that I'm aware of that had such a swell of progressive rock concept albums.  Yeah, it's "all music", I get that...but how do you compare/contrast what you think is good as opposed to what others think is good?

Fuckin' London Calling is whatever you want to call it, but you can't put it next to 2112 and say "it's all the same".  IT'S NOT.  

Oh I'm sorry but do threads have to run along linear lines around here?  Why don't you answer my points eh?  You seem to think Rust Never Sleeps aint a rock record and therefore can't be compared or judged alongside The Wall.  TOTAL SHITE.  And you're one of the senior members around here?  You're speaking pish man.  The first post said Evil Urges was a concept album.  It ain't so it's a thread started about an record that isn't even a concept album.  Why can't we just discuss things in a free flowing manner instead of being anally retentive about it.  

I wasn't aware I had to be around at the time to comment on an album or a band.  I know the context of the times mate.  The Wall, weird?  Peking O by Can is weird.  Lick My Decals Off Baby is weird.  The Wall ain't weird.  Well, it may have been weird to a 12 year old kid but not to anybody over the age of, say 18.

WTF are you smokin'?  Where did I say Rust Never Sleeps isn't a rock album?  You said it was-I agree!  POINT TAKEN.  Also, you do know that there are things called "categories" and "genres and subgenres" that exist in the universe?  You may not agree with how they are categorized, but who gave you keys to the kingdom?  

I'm not being anal, but I think you are.  We were discussing whether EU is a concept album or not-then it became some sort of musicology pissing contest.  

Agree to disagree.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Also, how old are you?  Were you around and old enough to know how weird the Wall was in 1979, compared to say, The Knack?  

Why don't you answer my post properly instead of questioning my age?  

I did.  You obviously think what I think is shite.  Good for you.

Congratulations, the internet works.  ;)

[Bigsky]

GB, you truly know how to make an entrance. I am sorry I didn't take the time to read all of you post, but they seemed a bit long and boring...blah blah blah The Wall sucks blah blah blah Waters sucks blah blah blah Pink Floyd sucks blah blah blah Goat Boys a cunt!

Anyways, I hope you are a MMJ fan, because if your not your in the wrong area. Try http://www.pink_Flyod_Sucks.com


What's the topic of this discussion...that's right [size=20]MMJ [/size]

[mjkoehler]

Where's Rats when we need him?

This thread never really got going.  
:-/