At Dawn

[Goat Boy]

Of course you are free to say anything negative about the band, the music, their peanut butter pudding habits  ;D, etc...I don't think that's the point here.  

Evil tracy said....

So my advice is go write the words and music to Heartbreakin Man, The Bear, Nashville to Kentucky, Old Sept. Blues, It's About Twilight Now, Evelyn Is Not Real, War Begun, Picture of You, I Will Be There When You Die, The Dark, By My Car, I Think I'm Going to Hell, At Dawn, Low Down, The Way That He Sings, Death Is the Easy Way, Hopefully, Bermuda Highway, Xmas Curtain, If It Smashes Down,
I Needed It Most, Strangulation, and then (and only then) tell me how Honest Man is "shit".

Whic amounts to - you can't say it's shit cos you haven't written songs as good as those.  Isn't this clear?  Of course I'm free to say it's shit but Tracy doesn't seem to believe that negative criticism is valid or has a place on this board.  

It's that you picked a song that some folks like, and they responded.  Tongue in cheek, firmly planted.  

If Tracys post is 'tongue in cheek' then you're obviously seeing something I ain't.  I am responding to Tracy, nobody else, they are free to like the song obviously.

I personally don't think it's cool to say a song is "shit"-but I'm guessing you're of the position that the somber acoustic MMJ is your style and your bread and butter.  

Not at all.  It's just not a very good song imo.  

That's fine.  But, be prepared to debate your position if you think a loud/rock song is "shit", when "honest man" is clearly NOT "shit".  Hell, even "Lead me Father" on the AD demo disc, while not my personal favorite, isn't "shit".  

Imo it's shit, you disagree.  

There's this magic "next track" button on your CD player.  Use it!  Or even better, program your CD player to automatically skip it.  If you're lstening to it on vinyl, move the arm over and skip the track...make a mix CD, something, anything.  

Eh?  I like to listen to albums as they were intended.  Warts and all.  Honest Man therefore spoils my enjoyment of At Dawn.  Again this is similar to Tracy in that it comes from the 'why bother criticising something' school of thought as if this is less valid or does not belong on this forum.  This is how I see it and others have said similar things on an earlier thread I posted.  

You probably know that this band resonates pretty loudly with its fans, and we're all pretty rabid and Davidian Ranch-like in our fervor-you included.  

Would that make Tracy David Koresh then?

[ycartrob]

gee whiz goat, good thing you're not taking any of this persoanlly. (you actually said "at least this weeds out the men from the boys"?  ;D) I think you just set the record for posting someone else's name (mine) in a post to someone else. I am flattered...  ::) 


I'll be awaiting your release of original songs that tops At Dawn. Keep me posted. And no shit, please! Plus, make it available for free download (of course) and I'll just pay to see you on your tour!

waiting... (and try to be cool, it won't hurt you, just give it a try).

[Goat Boy]

  What this boils down to is that you don't appear to like anybody saying negative things about this band on this forum do you?

Lord all mighty I think he's getting it!

Your proud of it as well!   ::)  And cos you don't like ANY negativity you feel the need to compare me to 'those people' like white basketball commentators (presumably old black ones can say what they want) who have the nerve to criticise.  You want the board to be a certain way.  You want it to be a homogenised love fest where everybody sucks the bands and each others cocks and people like me who actually put forward differening opinions to the overwhelming majority around here get replies like yours.   Anything negative or against this grain and you jump on it.  

[ycartrob]

  What this boils down to is that you don't appear to like anybody saying negative things about this band on this forum do you?

Lord all mighty I think he's getting it!

Your proud of it as well!   ::)  And cos you don't like ANY negativity you feel the need to compare me to 'those people' like white basketball commentators (presumably old black ones can say what they want) who have the nerve to criticise.  You want the board to be a certain way.  You want it to be a homogenised love fest where everybody sucks the bands and each others cocks and people like me who actually put forward differening opinions to the overwhelming majority around here get replies like yours.   Anything negative or against this grain and you jump on it.  

name 1 old black announcer of NBA basketball....

and why are you repeating yourself? I'm done, you know my stance, hopefully. If it's really no big deal, like you say, then why so huffy?  Just ignore me (even though you get a kick out of me responding  ;)). I may give you something more later, so just stand by.

have a good one

[Goat Boy]

gee whiz goat, good thing you're not taking any of this persoanlly. (you actually said "at least this weeds out the men from the boys"?  ;D) I think you just set the resocrd for posting someone else's name (mine) in a post to someone else. I am falltered...  ::) 

Take a quote and use it out of context.  Good one!  Out of the whole post that's what you pick up on?  Revealing.  It wasn't entirely serious you know?  But at least it's good to know where the lines in the sand are drawn.  I'm figuring out what certain posters are like and where they are coming from.  Me and you are Mars and Venus mate.

I'll be awaiting your release of original songs that tops At Dawn. Please make it available for free download (of course) and I'll just pay to see you on your tour!

Have you ever criticised ANYTHING in your life?  Do you NEVER say something is shit?  Or do you live your life by your own maxim and don't critique or slag off ANYTHING unless you have experience in it yourself?  Do you slag TV shows or politicians?  I hope not cos that would be hypocritical.  I say one song is shit and this is how you react?   ;D

waiting... (and try to be cool, it won't hurt you, just give it a try).

I'm cooler than a frozen Fonzy.

[ycartrob]

YES! I have drawn the line in the sand! If you come to the board and say a MMJ song is shit, you shall hear it from me! Pistols at dawn! (now that's clever)

[Goat Boy]

name 1 old black announcer of NBA basketball....

Mr T?  I'm Scottish  mate.  I know nothing about basketball or basketball commentators in the states.

and why are you repeating yourself? I'm done, you know my stance, hopefully. If it's really no big deal, like you say, then why so huffy?  I may give you something more later, so just stand by.

have a good one

I await with baited breath for you to reply.  

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Eh?  I like to listen to albums as they were intended.  Warts and all.  Honest Man therefore spoils my enjoyment of At Dawn

Point taken, but I'm confused.  You earlier said:

It just doesn't belong there

So....which is it?  Do you like to listen to albums as they were intended, warts and all, or you think "Honest Man" doesn't belong there?

[Bigsky]

Goat Boy, you really are a goat. I understand your opinion, but is Honest Man really shit? Shit is disgusting, brown, and black, purple (sometimes red), mud that smells like death, and comes from one's ass. Is this what HM is to you. It might not be your favorite MMJ song, but if it was the only one in the juke box, would you listen to it. I think the way you approach things, and the way you express your self is a little arrogant and almighty (and definitly negative). You have about 66 posts and I think 60 of them are negative comments. You started with the idea the Pink Floyd sucks. If you want my opinion...I think you suck...but nothing personal.

[ycartrob]

 You want the board to be a certain way.  You want it to be a homogenised love fest where everybody sucks the bands and each others cocks

you say that like it's a bad thing?

(I'm a balls man, myself, but, uh, perhaps TMI)

[ycartrob]

You have about 66 posts and I think 60 of them are negative comments. .

me thinks this ain't goatboys first journey down the MMJ forum pathway...   just a hunch. And he's not as much a goat as he is trying to get everyone elses goat.  :)

[Goat Boy]

You have about 66 posts and I think 60 of them are negative comments. .

me thinks this ain't goatboys first journey down the MMJ forum pathway...   just a hunch. And he's not as much a goat as he is trying to get everyone elses goat.  :)

You're right it's not.  I posted a few times before under the name ivor but I registered using a yahoo email account, didnt change my password, and the email account was closed after being inactive after 30 days so I registered again as Goat Boy!

I'm not trying to actively piss people off (hasn't worked with Big Evil) but getting used to a FAN forum as opposed to the only other forum I use (general music and chat forum) that is a LOT different to this place takes some getting used to.  My style (as it is) seems confrontational as does my use of language but this is partly a cultural thing I feel.  Brits swear more than Americans.  I mean all I did was say a song is shit.  That's all.

[Goat Boy]

 You want the board to be a certain way.  You want it to be a homogenised love fest where everybody sucks the bands and each others cocks

you say that like it's a bad thing?

(I'm a balls man, myself, but, uh, perhaps TMI)

Not at all but is is a thing.  Anyone up for some soggy biscuit?  Be warned though, I've abstained for 9 days so it will be one MIGHTY soggy biscuit.

[dragonboy]

I posted a few times before under the name ivor

Because you were inspired by Ivor The Engine?

[dragonboy]

A whole episode!!!
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=fDWk0BCeblQ

[Goat Boy]

I posted a few times before under the name ivor

Because you were inspired by Ivor The Engine?

Ivor Cutler!  But I know Ivor the Engine although that's a bit before my time.  I'm a Thomas man myself.

[Bigsky]

I would like to thank everyone for this thread and discussion (even GB). It has made me listen to AD over and over, and everytime I have found something new. Like the ups and downs of life, At Dawn is a wonderful ride that can not be taken lightly. I want to also thank MMJ for giving us such a beautiful gift.

[Goat Boy]

Eh?  I like to listen to albums as they were intended.  Warts and all.  Honest Man therefore spoils my enjoyment of At Dawn

Point taken, but I'm confused.  You earlier said:

It just doesn't belong there

So....which is it?  Do you like to listen to albums as they were intended, warts and all, or you think "Honest Man" doesn't belong there?

I feel stylistically it doesn't belong there.  Plus it's far too long.  I could stand it more if it was a 2 minute blast but not 7.  It sucks the life a bit out of the middle of the album.  I can still listen to an record all the way through and think a song doesn't really belong there you know?  Sometimes I'll skip if it comes on my ipod but thats part of the ipod experience of course but if I sit down in my flat with a joint to play an album it's on from beginning to end.  

It's like Sloop John B.  I listen to it but it doesn't really belong on the album does it?  I know it was included at Al Jardine insistence (I think it was him anyway) but still, you get my point no?

[Bigsky]

You think HM is long, you should check out Cobra on Chocolate and Ice...24 minutes. With that said, I grew up listening to the Grateful Dead, so 7 minutes (and even 24 minutes) is nothing.

[Goat Boy]

Shit is disgusting, brown, and black, purple (sometimes red), mud that smells like death, and comes from one's ass. Is this what HM is to you.

Your getting bogged down in semantics.  Although I do like that quote and this is priceless...

I understand your opinion, but is Honest Man really shit?

Well you obviously don't understand at all.  IT'S SHIT IN MY OPINION.   Open your mouth so I can pull some more teeth please.  I gave some reasons why I don't like it and why I feel the performance doesn't cut it.   Isn't that enough?  Obviously not.  I think it's a dud.  Especially in the context of the album and by MMJ standards it is shit.  No, it isnt literally shit and doesn't repel me in the same way shit would if you shoved it in my face.  Ok, that's a lie, I'm actually a scat munching fiend so that would probably turn me on however all this cos I said a song you like is shit!  

It might not be your favorite MMJ song, but if it was the only one in the juke box, would you listen to it.

The only song or the only MMJ song?  Both times, the answer is no.  I'm being an Honest Man here.

You have about 66 posts and I think 60 of them are negative comments.

So what?  I'm glad you're keeping score though.  I have posted positive things (in fact recently I posted a long message that was very positive about the band and the effect they had on me but ignore that and focus solely on the negative).  However the gushing nature of this forum brings out my negativity as a reaction to this. The yang to the yin.  Perhaps next time I should post a thread entitled 'MMJ RAWKS MY WORLD!!!! LOL' or 'How MMJ saved my life and are the greatest thing eva and they really FREAKIN' RAWK!!'  and that would meet your approval?

You started with the idea the Pink Floyd sucks.

No, no, no.  I said Roger Waters Pink Floyd sucked.  There is a difference!

If you want my opinion...I think you suck...but nothing personal.

You think I suck?  Damn, a stranger on the internet thinks Goat Boy sucks!  What is a poor goat to do?  ::)  Perhaps I'll go munch some poo.....hmmm....poo