10 Ideas for MMJ

[wellfleet]

tracy... right freakin' on! thanks for posting that, it's always interesting to hear what the artists think of file sharing. i've always been curious about MMJ's stance on this.

rat... i just don't understand the argument that you're making up for money that you overpaid. you're stealing music to make up for the fact that you feel you paid too much? how does that get converted into justice? nobody said you're an asshole, i certainly won't, and if you don't understand the argument against downloading for free, then no amount of explaining will get through. i do believe, though, that if you were a professional painter or musician or designer, depending on your craft to live, that you would feel differently. there are many ways to justify and bend your reasoning to fit some sense of getting even morality and that works for you, that's great. but it's just not rational.

[ratsprayer]

im not trying to justify, thats my whole point.  i can throw out all sorts of excuses and reasons, but it wont matter to anyone.  the fact i am stating is yes i do download, but i have other ways to support musicians.  does that make it right?  probably not, but thats who i am.  i also know assloads of people who download that wont own up to it, notice im the only one here admitting it.  call me a glutton, but im not going to shy away from it.  

you had to see the inside world the music business before you stopped.  maybe im stupid and need a $250,000 fine.  well just have to wait and see.

[corey]

I've only read back through the last couple of posts on this matter 'cause I don't feel like reading the whole thread... but I doubt Bob Mould really makes any money on record sales to begin with because his #s aren't all that high.

I'm no expert on the process, but from what I understand, you have to sell a SHITLOAD of records to make any money off of it. Artists like him make more money on the road. Am I correct?

[ratsprayer]

I've only read back through the last couple of posts on this matter 'cause I don't feel like reading the whole thread... but I doubt Bob Mould really makes any money on record sales to begin with because his #s aren't all that high.

I'm no expert on the process, but from what I understand, you have to sell a SHITLOAD of records to make any money off of it. Artists like him make more money on the road. Am I correct?

thats exactly right, most all bands that any of us listen to make all their money on the road.  ive driven 400 miles from my house to asheville just to see the jacket, bought 2 tickets and only used one.  ive driven to louisville, cincy, and indy to see them, all at least 1 to 3 hours.  bought more tickets than i used.  all that right there equals over a thousand albums sold.  bottom line.  if you want to support an artist,  see them live.  all this still doesnt justifty downloading, but see the support is still there.  i wasted $35 a ticket to see them with wilco at the palace and missed half the opening set.  the jacket will get my money to see them play live in places they choose, not to support dave matthews' record label and his fucking lavish tour bus that dumps shit in the chicago river.  

[corey]

I'll admit that I download some music as well. If it's an artist that I really support, I'll buy their record at the merch table when I see them at a show. That way, they're getting the most money out of me.

The only records that I've bought in the last couple of years were anything by MMJ and DBTs.

I did buy a shitload of records last February on a crazy shopping spree that my wife and I had, but I have only listened to 2-3 of them more than once. Therefore, I feel like I wasted a shitload of money.

That's all I'm gonna say.

[ratsprayer]

im the best dowloader in this thread, folks.



:-/

[MMJ_fanatic]

just remember:  no cd sales can lead to no interest from a record company.  I have picked up everything in hard copy and given their entire cd collection as gifts to friends and relatives as well as driven all kinds of miles to see the live shows and I think people should be paid for their work and sales numbers are important in the market we live in.  I just feel its important as part of the support of this wonderful group of guys to boost the sales numbers wherever we can.

[ycartrob]

I have no choice but to respect Bob Mould's opinion. We can speculate (and we know how productive speculation is  ;)) on how things are with record sales, or we can take someone like Mould, who has seen the shadiest of shady from the record industry, who has first hand experience that spans over 25 years; from large labels to small labels.

The way he sees it, if you're taking a dime off his table, then that's still his dime. Who are you to say if it should bother him or not?

[Steve_Smith]

I'm no expert on the process, but from what I understand, you have to sell a SHITLOAD of records to make any money off of it. Artists like him make more money on the road. Am I correct?

This is completely besides the point.  It's not about making money for the band, it's about supporting the whole industry.  An industry with a checkered past no doubt, but one that continues to support a lot of bands and music that inevitably make absolutely no money.  Without this industry in place, MMJ doesn't get the money up front to buy recording eqiupment  and instruments to make albums and play shows.  Most likely they have barely broken even on touring up until the latest album.  Crew, tour bus, flights, food, etc eat up most of the expense.  Yes, they could maybe do it in a van, without good sound guys, guitar tecs, and they could record their records on a computer for cheap.  But  is that begs an important point to be made, which is without the support of a major label, a band's options or more limited artistically.  They may not be able to afford the equipment, or producer, or the TIME to be able to make the music they want to make.

Let's think about down time between records.  There has to be time to recoup and re-energize from extensive touring, and time to get creative.  For some bands it take 6 months to make another record, for other it could take a couple of years...  Where do you suppose they get the money to live on during this time span?  From touring profits?  No way does a band at MMJ's level make enough money touring for a few months a  year to save up enough for a whole years living expenses.   This is where record label's advances come in.  It is also how they can pay to make the next record.

Well then, how much money does the band get you ask?  What determines this?  ALBUM SALES!  If a record company can reasonably expect to make some money off of a band they will give them a nice chunk of money to make a record.  The more sales that are expected, the more money that is available to the band.  A band at MMJ's level aren't selling a lot of records, partly due to the kind of music, downloaders and the crappy copy protection stunt that the label pulled (cutting it's nose off despite it's face).  

Also, making live DVD's and videos can be very expensive.  That money most likely comes in the form of advances as well.

The funny thing is that for most bands nowadays, none of the money advanced by the record label ends up in their pockets.  That money is usually used to record an album at a high priced recording studio and with a high priced producer.  The money that they get to live on and support themselves and possibly their families comes from a publishing deal (if they're lucky enough to get one), and again, a publishing deal is based on RECORD SALES.  This is another reason why you see so much music being whored out to corporate america nowadays via commercials and shitty television shows.

So the next time you criticize a band, for being on the OC or some other lame reason, or not touring, or whatever, after you've justified downloading their music for free, or the next time you criticize Dave Mathews's label, a label that gives MMJ complete artistic freedom and money to make music, music that you love, in a climate that isn't very conducive to money making......stop and think for a second how completely selfish and narcissitic it is and how it can affect a lot of people in many different ways.

If your girlfriend always goes down on you and she let's you get away with not returning the favor, without a complaint, do you still not go down on her?  Well, if you're righteous man, you go down there and go to work.

That's all I have to say.  Do right.  Don't fall into the trends and habits of this me first society, and for god's sake don't justify it!    

[ratsprayer]

If your girlfriend always goes down on you and she let's you get away with not returning the favor, without a complaint, do you still not go down on her?  Well, if you're righteous man, you go down there and go to work.
 

if you're a true righteous man, you know that going down on your girlfriend / wife / life partner or whatever is much better than having her go down on you.   ;D

[wellfleet]

i don't know what this has to do with downloading, but amen bruthas!  :o

[ratsprayer]

lets get off to some other subject besides downloading.

thank you, ill be here all night.   :D :D

[Angry Ewok]

I downloaded Z before it was released, but as soon as it was on shelves, I bought my copy, and told my friends to buy it, too... I made everyone a deal that if they didn't like Z, I'd buy the album from them.

Then I had to go around and warn them not to use Z on their computers due to the spyware.

[EC]

word Steve Smith.

I think the final way to think is, nobody has ANY idea what kind of deal your favourite band has going for them.  Do whatever you can to support them, and please don't fuck them if they make music that makes you happy.

:)

[LaurieBlue]

Good points, Steve.  Thanks for sharing them all.  

Laurie

[marktwain]

Also a little curious how used CD stores get past the concept of stealing music. Aren't they undercutting (and profiting) the record stores by selling copyrighted material?

It's the First-Sale Doctrine.  The copyright holder  has already been compensated once, so the particular copy now belongs to the purchaser.  If he wants to re-sell it, he can, but he can't make a new copy or rent it or anything.  Of course, nobody's paid for those promo copies, and that's why they're stamped "Not for Sale"  

[sweatboard]

My 2 cents...............

Here is my analogy.  There are thousands upon thousands of amazing worthwhile charitys out there.  Unfortunatly none of us has the money to support them all.  So, we do research and support the ones that usually mean the most to us.  I see downloading albums as a way of doing research to find out what I like.  I could not possibly afford to buy each album that I'm INTERESTED in.  If it were not for downloading I probably would still not even know what some of my favorite artists sound like.  I downloaded the Andrew Bird album and I LOVED it, I just bought a copy on Vinyl and will go see him live whenever he plays near here if I have the chance.  I downloaded some MMJ songs to start off and now they could all probalby live at least a month on what I alone have bought and what I have convinced other people to buy.  I really think downloading HELPS a band like My Morning Jacket in the long run.  The thing about file sharing is that while it may be illegal and against the law weather it's WRONG or not is really up for debate (and probably needs to be looked at on a case by case basis).  I don't feel like what I'm doing is WRONG.  I have hundreds of albums on my computer.  I also have hundreds of albums that I have bought.  Just about every spare penny I have goes to supporting music in some form or fashion.  I have been known to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches all week just so I can go see a local band and buy their record.          

[ycartrob]

Here a link to a great debate between Lars and Chuck D about this whole thang

http://www.rapstation.com/promo/lars_vs_chuckd.html

[Steven_Smith]

My 2 cents...............

Here is my analogy.  There are thousands upon thousands of amazing worthwhile charitys out there.  Unfortunatly none of us has the money to support them all.  So, we do research and support the ones that usually mean the most to us.  I see downloading albums as a way of doing research to find out what I like.  I could not possibly afford to buy each album that I'm INTERESTED in.  If it were not for downloading I probably would still not even know what some of my favorite artists sound like.  I downloaded the Andrew Bird album and I LOVED it, I just bought a copy on Vinyl and will go see him live whenever he plays near here if I have the chance.  I downloaded some MMJ songs to start off and now they could all probalby live at least a month on what I alone have bought and what I have convinced other people to buy.  I really think downloading HELPS a band like My Morning Jacket in the long run.  The thing about file sharing is that while it may be illegal and against the law weather it's WRONG or not is really up for debate (and probably needs to be looked at on a case by case basis).  I don't feel like what I'm doing is WRONG.  I have hundreds of albums on my computer.  I also have hundreds of albums that I have bought.  Just about every spare penny I have goes to supporting music in some form or fashion.  I have been known to eat Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches all week just so I can go see a local band and buy their record.          

Comapring charities and a rock n' roll band is like comapring apples to oranges.  A charity doesn't GIVE you anything in return.  You are the giver and not the receiver when you give to a charity.  A charity doesn't spend a year of their life making something for you to enjoy.  A band does.

So, not only do you justify not paying for music, but you use bad logic to do the justifying!

I guess we should all applaud you for not trying to sneak into shows for free?  and not going to the record store and stealing cds in your duffle bag?  Do you go to the grocery store and steal cheese because you always buy milk and bread?

The bottom line is that a lot of people don't buy the record and support the bands that they download, a big part of record sales come from the fringe and middle of the road fans, who aren't as diehard as you.  There are a lot of people out there enjoying Z who have never paid a dime for it, and have no intention of going to a show.  This directly affects a band's bottom line.  If everyone was like you, it wouldn't be a big deal, but the reality is that most people aren't like you.  So it's just a little self righteous of you to run around preaching that it's ok to steal music, because it's not!  And it is WRONG.  Whether or not you want to admit it, is in your hands.

Does it not bother you, that your favorite bands struggle monetarily, and in a business sense because of all the people like you who justify illegal downloading?

[ycartrob]

A charity doesn't GIVE you anything in return.

That statement is untrue.