Jim and Will Oldham

[rob]

Is it just a competition thing, or is there documented proof (interview?) that Jim truly dislikes Will? Someone mentioned it on here a long time ago.....just wondered about it. The new Bonnie Prince Billy single is pretty good, btw.......

[aMD]

There's an interview somewhere where jim talks about not wanting to be associated with Will as a "Louisville artist"  I couldn't find it though.

[tomEisenbraun]

i think he referred to Will's sound somewhat disdainfully, as if it were something he thought quite little of.

Someone knows where it is...

where the hell is LaurieBlue?

[Chills]

He mentioned something about Oldham sounding too ironic, insincere, or something like that.  I did kinda understood what Jim was trying to say. But anyway, the Bonnie Prince Billy records "I See A Darkness" and "Ease Down The Road" remain masterpieces.

[aMD]

I found this:

from http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/watw/03-04/my-morning-jacket.shtml
 
"I think Will Oldham had a couple good records, but I'm not really cued into that whole scene. I hate it when people compare me to Will Oldham. I can't stand it. Lots of what he does, I don't feel it's really authentic. I feel like he's trying to do things to make [the songs] feel a certain way. But we're just playing music."

[MyLifeISought]

I found this:

from http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/watw/03-04/my-morning-jacket.shtml

"I think Will Oldham had a couple good records, but I'm not really cued into that whole scene. I hate it when people compare me to Will Oldham. I can't stand it. Lots of what he does, I don't feel it's really authentic. I feel like he's trying to do things to make [the songs] feel a certain way. But we're just playing music."

Ouch! But i definitely know where he's coming from with that. Some of Oldham's work is brilliant, but some is very forced.
Anyone who can turn "Thunder Road" into a song of utter defeat certainly has talent, though. The rest of that album with Tortoise is weak, but that version blows me away.
Overall, though, i think i'm with Jim on this one. We also tried to book Oldham at my school and he was a COMPLETE asshole. Very disillusioning.

[rob]

Some of Oldham's work is brilliant, but some is very forced.
Anyone who can turn "Thunder Road" into a song of utter defeat certainly has talent, though. The rest of that album with Tortoise is weak, but that version blows me away.
Overall, though, i think i'm with Jim on this one. We also tried to book Oldham at my school and he was a COMPLETE asshole. Very disillusioning.

Yeah, everything I've seen and heard about him as a person seems.....negative?.....snobbish?.......creepy?.....all of the above? Strange. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the genuineness of our Kermit lovin' guy here.

For some reason, the entire duet album with Tortoise continues to blow me away.......I guess just the odd song choices,  the whole atmosphere....and it still gets better with each listen......totally underrated work, IMO. Even tho he can't really sing, his vocals still convey alot of depth. But no one I've played it for likes it   ???    It's his solo work that I have a hard time getting into, even tho his upcoming album seems promising.

Thanks for finding that interview snippet, aMD

[Dee.]

Sooo, Bonnie Prince Billy seems to be touring record stores this summer.  I was thinking about going and presenting him with a teddy bear just to see his reaction.  Then I could decide if I like him or not.  Heheh, an amusing thought.  Yeah, I haven't read many pleasant things about his personal character.

[rob]

Sooo, Bonnie Prince Billy seems to be touring record stores this summer.  I was thinking about going and presenting him with a teddy bear just to see his reaction.  Then I could decide if I like him or not.  Heheh, an amusing thought.  Yeah, I haven't read many pleasant things about his personal character.

I should give him 2 attached panda bears (Jim & Pat) when I check him out on August 18th!  ;D

[sharliewho]

  I love Palace Music, his "Ebb's Folly "track on the Dutch Harbor release from Drag City is still one of my favorites. I can't imagine why anyone would compare his music to James' though, I see no correlation.

[orbison]

Oldham is very insincere.
He went to Brown University, but he pulls this "oh shucks i'm just a uneducated country boy" act.
He thinks growing a civil war era beard makes his music more legit...this actually tricks some stupid hipsters into thinking he's "amazing" and "genius."
I saw him live about two years ago, and he started his set dressed in overalls (his band was also all in overalls) and they had a jug and recreated a clap n stomp hootenany.
It was pretty insulting, so I left after two songs.
He has made a few good records though, but he's a total bastard. When I see MMJ, i don't ever feel like they are putting on an act or arent being true. I can't say that about Bonnie Prince Douchebag.  

[DD]

theres been bad blood ever since will won the fish taco cookoff contest at the mercury paw back in 98.  jim takes his fish taco recipe very seriously.

[doEVILslittle]

wtf is this insincere bullshit.....i really don't understand it at all....who cares what their background is? if he puts out good music, who cares what style it's in......tom scholz went to MIT but boston still rocks my fucking ass off, they're no nerds. what's the diff if will went to brown or if he went to bumblefuck community college.....he still puts out music that is moving in some way or another

[aMD]

wtf is this insincere bullshit.....i really don't understand it at all....who cares what their background is? if he puts out good music, who cares what style it's in......tom scholz went to MIT but boston still rocks my fucking ass off, they're no nerds. what's the diff if will went to brown or if he went to bumblefuck community college.....he still puts out music that is moving in some way or another

i don't want to speak for everyone who hates Will oldham because he's an insincere bastard (there's a lot of them), but I think a lot of music fans enjoy music that is honest and from the heart and mind of a true artist.  mmj fans in general are probably a little more spoiled in this regard.  

Some people, like Oldham and members of Boston, are smart enough to know how to make music that others enjoy so that they can profit from it but I prefer for musicians to make music that they enjoy and if others enjoy it, that's secondary and a nice surprise.  Personally, it doesn't bother me that Oldham's a dick in real life, but you must understand why that would turn some people off.

[primushead]

Hm....I've never really heard Will Oldham's stuff.  But i'll go ahead and take Jim's word for it that it isn't good.  

By the way, doesn't Carlos Mencia suck?  I still can't stand his show.  I hope it gets cancelled.

Wow, this post was random.  I'm going back to sleep now.

[DD]

well.  really how can a person KNOW the music someone else makes is somehow "fake"?  maybe there is a side of it that is done for profit, or done to get chicks, or maybe certain genres are borrowed from that dont reallly fit a persons upbringing,  but i dont see how that makes it particularly bad music.  its also really easy to dismiss a person and/or a persons art without ever knowing that person or hearing/seeing their art just based on some anecdotal stories that are often derived from second hand information.  

sometimes you gotta look at this stuff from your OWN perspective rather than taking someone elses word for it.  just because I do or dont personally care for someone or their music it doesnt mean that person or music is actually bad.  and beyond that, as far as being a "dick" or an "asshole" that often goes hand in hand with being a musician type.  i definetly know more dicks and assholes making music than not making music.  the fact that they are dicks or assholes though doesnt alter the quality or un-quality of their music.

that being said im no WO fan.  not because of any issues i or anyone else may have with him but simply because i dont really care for his music.   stupid serious post.  i shoulda just stuck with the fish tacos.

[Baskerville]

'I See A Darkness' is an incredible LP.

Anyone who refuses to check it out just because JIm doesn't like it is a bit silly imo.

[codyride]

ok i heared about this discussion from a dear friend and couldn't help myself. aside from both jim and will using monikers like bonnie prince billy,palace,continental op, etc. and jim using hotel roy,month of sundays, my morning jacket,etc. i don't see any real comparison. the music comes from two entirely different places both intellectually and spiritually. no comparison either when it comes to the emotional impact each man's words have on their listeners. i go to mmj for a very different effect then when i grab for bpb. i am assuming that jims stage thrashing,long hair, bare feet and jeans might be somewhat derivitive of his musical influences, i imagine he's a student ( his personal educational background) of 70's pop/rock history. Will, a scholar of appalachian/mountain/folk music history (see educational background), hence the beard and overalls. wake up people the fact that a man was asked what his personal opinion of anothers man's work was shouldn't mark or scar him for life. i imagine if jim knew how far that comment was taken he would never had said it to the press, especially now that he once again shares the same town with Will and many of the very same personal friends. can we please drop it.

[piss_hammer]

FWIW - "The Letting Go" is one of the best albums of the year, IMO. As much as i love MMJ, I think Jim's opinion of Will Oldham's work is pretty irrelavant to it's quality. I think that interview speaks more of a desire of Jim's for MMJ to not be lumped in with any "scene" and to be judged on it's own merit.

[slimsloslider]

my take on the whole james vs. oldham thing is this: early on jim disliked the comparisons mostly because the two were being lumped together based on the fact they're both from kentucky. they're not a part of the same scene by any stretch of the imagination, and i can see how it can be frustrating to be compared to another artist for such a simplistic reason. i don't even know if there is a louisville "scene" per se.
whether or not oldham is sincere in his efforts is up for debate. either way, he's tapped into something very incredible, something spiritual. i've only seen him perform once, and he struck me as a little out there, but it was certainly a moving experience. he makes beautiful music and much of what he creates is artful at the very least. he IS  talented.
but as far as oldham's personality is concerned, i can only say this: a close friend of mine used one of his songs as his wedding song, and on a whim sent an email asking if he'd care to perform the song at the reception, and from what i can gather, he was very polite in declining. he at least took the time to get back to my friend and wish him well. anything but an asshole move if you ask me