Tucson Disappointment

[tomEisenbraun]

sweet Jesus people

I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)

That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.

It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.

All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.

I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.

Dad rant over. Book finished.

[ultravisitor]

Wait a second.....

Was this guy critical of the band or the sound system and venue??

He said,  "...the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes..."   :-/

Well, I hate to disappoint you people, but I've seen MMJ four times (with two more times coming up in two weeks) and believe it or not, Jim hasn't been absolutely perfect every single time.

It happens.  It's okay.  They're still a great band.

[TheBigChicken]

sweet Jesus people

I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)

That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.

It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.

All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.

I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.

Dad rant over. Book finished.

thank you GOD :-/ long winded but you have spoken

[Sherpa]

sweet Jesus people

I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)

That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.

It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.

All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.

I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.

Dad rant over. Book finished.

Amen!

Thank you, as always.

[purvis9876]

sweet Jesus people

I really respect this guy's opinion. He didn't name drop at all until he was asked who he'd worked with, which is completely reasonable. He presented his claims fair and square, and I'll admit, Jim was having some trouble with Remnants when I saw them at the Fox. There's a difference between knowing every word and completely losing yourself in the music and not giving a shit about the sound (I'll admit, the Fox show was also overpowering the speakers, which I didn't care for, but I still got the vibe and it moved in a place I needed to. I overlooked the sound because the band means more to me than bad house sound. There were points where the house sound just wouldn't handle it, though, and that sucked, because I lost a few guitar parts to that...)

That said, this guy has a serious opinion to offer, and a good criticism. The worst show sound I've ever heard was when the Jacket played Vanderbilt's Rites of Spring--the sound was pushed entirely too loud through speakers that couldn't handle it, and it took away from the atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Jim or anything, but these guys put on such an intense show that singing stuff like Mahgeetah and Remnants and One Big Holiday night after night into such a high energy set...well, you can lose your top end of your range doing so. What's cool is when a crowd is into it enough and singing loud enough that it doesn't matter, because they're all in accord about it. However, when you don't have all the band's work committed to memory, and are hoping for a pristine and beautiful live experience, setbacks like that can be a turnoff, especially when you've spent your career working to create the best sound possible for an artist you respect.

It sounds that most of his problem was with the sound, as it most likely made it a more difficult experience to enjoy to his ears. Add in some of the setbacks of flubs vocally or wherever else they occurred, and it can really take away. Critical ears hear htings differently, and those are the ears that make an album. What he does is to, in fact, help the artist create their beauty, in translating it to the audience through the sound. When you can hear everything in a pristine manner, it changes the show. The delicate aspects aren't lost, and the most dynamic changes are even moreso. But when everything is being pushed at full blare, you lose the sensitive touch along with the full roar.

All that to say, I had a completely different experience than this guy because of my knowledge and depth of love of the band, but I completely understand his criticism of house sound, and Jim can definitely push himself through a run of shows to the point where his voice doesn't perform the way he needs it to. Which is why I'm sure Remnants hasn't been played at every show. When he can't carry it, he won't, but sometimes you don't know if you can or not when its a ways into the setlist. I only wish he knew which songs to point to where Jim was struggling, as I'm sure it would only make sense when he pushes himself.

I'm okay with a well-informed first post like this. I hope you'll reconsider our board, man. And guys, don't flame on like this when someone has something to say. That's disrespectful when he came in respecting what we all love. He didn't say this to be self-righteous or to come in and stroke himself off all over us with his affiliations, he was looking to see if other people had a similar experience or not. It differs when people have different ears and different brains, but respect is a healthy thing around here.

Dad rant over. Book finished.

I'm sorry, but saying "i thought about asking for my money back" is in no way "respectful". I'd like to know who else would do what he did; Come into a forum after seeing a show he thought was terrible and tell all of their most hardcore fans that he thought it was so bad he wanted his money back. I'd honestly like to know how that is respectful. I'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox. I have no sympathy for this guy and believe he deserves each negative comment he's recieved. You would think someone in "the biz" could take a little heat from fans without resorting to heirarchy and name dropping.

[tomEisenbraun]

What the fuck?

[getinthevan]

I'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.

I really don't get that mentality.  Isn't the place where we talk about the band?  The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.  

Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.

[ycartrob]

I'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.

I really don't get that mentality.  Isn't the place where we talk about the band?  The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.  

Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.

so it's OK to think it's not OK for people to post negative posts about the band and it's also OK to post negative posts about the band....

so nothing ever posted here should ever be questioned by anyone; either respond or don't.

have a good one

[purvis9876]

I'm not saying his point about the sound may or may not be valid, but I don't feel this is the place to voice that type of bitching. Send a message to the admin, band, etc... Don't use this place where we talk about our love for the band as your dissing soapbox.

I really don't get that mentality.  Isn't the place where we talk about the band?  The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly.  

Like I said before, this is a public forum, it's not some exclusive club of yes-men.

I understand and agree, but I did not see his "good". I just lost all respect for what he was saying when he, like I stated before, said it was so bad that he wanted his money back. I also asked if what he did was something that you(and by that I mean anyone on this forum) would go do on another band's forum. He's no fan; he came to bitch because it didn't meet his standards. Like I also said, he could have contacted someone that would actually look at and solve the problem instead of coming in here and telling the fans how much it sucked. Look, I welcome good and bad opinions, but this guy just seemed to be a troll.

[getinthevan]

Tracy, I think that things should be questioned.  But it seems like it always comes down to someone saying that this isn't the place to state anything negative about the band.  That's really what I think is wrong.  I truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad.  I don't see this as some sort of praise land for the band and I don't quite understand when people keep implying that it is.  

Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund.  I'm trying to see it from his point of view.  There's a band that you like enough to go see.  They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations.  I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...

I don't know, I feel like we're all just kind of repeating the same things over and over in this thread.  Like when two people are arguing for the same thing but don't realize it.  I ran out of useful input several sentences ago, I'm going to try to just let this go.

[tomEisenbraun]

 
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund.  I'm trying to see it from his point of view.  There's a band that you like enough to go see.  They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations.  I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...

Can I offer my take? Let's say the same scenario is in place, really hyped and you've got years and years of top-notch live sound under your belt. What you get is a venue that doesn't know how to properly amplify this band and the entire show has you tensing because it's just not sounding the way it should. The venue and the live sound team have taken away from your experience, and I feel like, in cases where it's mainly a venue's fault for a band not being able to deliver the goods, a refund is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Especially when they're carrying bands worth hearing. They really don't have to care much, because they've already gotten their money for the show, especially when the name of the venue pulls a band towards it. Complaints change things when they're justified. I have no problem seeing how this one is.

[purvis9876]

 
Purvis, I do agree that it was taken a step too far when he said that considered asking for a refund.  I'm trying to see it from his point of view.  There's a band that you like enough to go see.  They happen to be hyped as one of the best live acts out there right now but when you go to their show, for you, it fails to meet your expectations.  I can see stating your disappointment and seeing if others agree but yeah...

Can I offer my take? Let's say the same scenario is in place, really hyped and you've got years and years of top-notch live sound under your belt. What you get is a venue that doesn't know how to properly amplify this band and the entire show has you tensing because it's just not sounding the way it should. The venue and the live sound team have taken away from your experience, and I feel like, in cases where it's mainly a venue's fault for a band not being able to deliver the goods, a refund is a perfectly reasonable consideration. Especially when they're carrying bands worth hearing. They really don't have to care much, because they've already gotten their money for the show, especially when the name of the venue pulls a band towards it. Complaints change things when they're justified. I have no problem seeing how this one is.

Damnit Tom! You have to go and put it "all reasonable and shit". I do see what you mean though. Never thought about it being the venues fault.  :P

[ycartrob]

I truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad.    

and, that's what happens. Everyone states their opinions, good or bad.

No one here has any power to stop anyone from posting anything negative about the band. People complain about the setlists, the sound, the tour stops, the merchandise, the studio releases, the TV appearances, etc... and they always will. That will always happen.
And everyone always has the freedom to continue posting such complaints and there is nothing stopping them.

And if I disagree with what  someone says, I have the freedom to disagree. So be it.

but even rockerc said, "I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything" so, when it does come his way, what's his reaction? it's this, "If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life."

now, that's his "ability" to "disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything"; by calling people "narrow minded", saying he is "disappointed" and telling them to "get a life". And I think that is funny, don't you? I mean, he's like, "I can take it" then he lashes out.

You know, Mr stuffy-sound-engineer-wiz for-the-stars gets his feathers ruffled by a bunch of MMJ fanboys, after Mr stuffy sound engineer claims to be above the fray of us peon internet fanboy dweebs.

Charming story, sort of...

(and personally, I am much more interested in hearing about the sheer fun and beauty of the show, like others from Tuscon posted.)

[purvis9876]

I truly feel that this is the place that people should be able to state their opinions, good or bad.    

and, that's what happens. Everyone states their opinions, good or bad.

No one here has any power to stop anyone from posting anything negative about the band. People complain about the setlists, the sound, the tour stops, the merchandise, the studio releases, the TV appearances, etc... and they always will. That will always happen.
And everyone always has the freedom to continue posting such complaints and there is nothing stopping them.

And if I disagree with what  someone says, I have the freedom to disagree. So be it.

but even rockerc said, "I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything" so, when it does come his way, what's his reaction? it's this, "If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life."

now, that's his "ability" to "disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything"; by calling people "narrow minded", saying he is "disappointed" and telling them to "get a life". And I think that is funny, don't you? I mean, he's like, "I can take it" then he lashes out.

You know, Mr stuffy-sound-engineer-wiz for-the-stars gets his feathers ruffled by a bunch of MMJ fanboys, after Mr stuffy sound engineer claims to be above the fray of us peon internet fanboy dweebs.

Charming story, sort of...

(and personally, I am much more interested in hearing about the sheer fun and beauty of the show, like others from Tuscon posted.)

In the words of Popeye.. "I aga ga ga ga gree!

[getinthevan]

[Salacious D]

^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??

Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.

By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.

[ycartrob]

^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??

Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.

By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.

I agree. I was hoping for something more. I am disappointed.

you must do better, chap

[BH]

Actually I totally understand where this guy is coming from.  In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day.  For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns.  It drove me crazy.  I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills.  Just the goddam grass!   I just wanted to leave and not look at it.  Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass."  I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.

[ycartrob]

Actually I totally understand where this guy is coming from.  In the summer of 94 I worked for a lawn sevice and I did nothing but weed eat for eight fucking hours a day.  For several years following that summer, no matter where I went or what I did, they only thing I could see when I looked out the window was poorly trimmed grass and overgrown lawns.  It drove me crazy.  I didn't notice the beauty of the trees, or the amazing sunsets, the flowers, or the hills.  Just the goddam grass!   I just wanted to leave and not look at it.  Then finally one day, I said, "fuck the grass."  I came here to have a good time with my friends and relax.

But I would bet you never stopped at someone's house to offer up the criticism that their lawn sucked, did you?   ;)

[Crispy]

^^I think that unicorn's knees are too pointy. And it's horn is way too short. The mane should be a little bit longer and I can't see the blonde highlight's too well in the picture. And why does it look like the unicorn has lockjaw??

Also, I think the yellow in the rainbow should be brighter, and I'm not really sure violet should be on the end there.

By the way, I draw unicorns and rainbows for a living, so I know what's up.

Top notch  ;D