Tucson Disappointment

[Rockerc]

My Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...

[alexzbik]

sweet 1st post

[JerseyRich]

I don't understand people that never post on a band's message board until that have something negative to say.


Your review stinks, and I don't like it.

[Rockerc]

Just telling it like I saw it, and I don't care if you don't like it. The truth often hurts. I just hope someone learns something from this.

[pawpaw]

Hi rockerc. Expect a lot of shit thrown back your way - folks here tend to be pretty defensive of the band.

If I were you, I'd email a copy of your post to the band's management. If you can think of ways to improve the live sound, bring it up with the people who can do something about it.

Which of the older songs and albums did you enjoy? I also was wondering which bands you've worked with over the years?

It's too bad you didn't enjoy yourself last night, though (with your background) I'm sure you were far more critical than most of the people that were there. While the sound wasn't perfect, I was in heaven last Friday at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley.

My advice to you is to enjoy the band in whatever way you can, with your (undoubtedly) hypercritical ears, because they really are a special group.

[Love Dogg]

My Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...

Hey, everybody!!  Let me introduce you to the new guy:

[Rockerc]

Hi Bill, thanks for not slagging me outright! I do understand that shit will come my way, but I have developed a healthy ability to disregard the bigotry inherent in being a blind fan of anything, but I suspect there are a lot more intelligent people reading this who are fans of the band and are able to assume a little criticism. Like I said, I really wanted to like this show, as I have enjoyed earlier recordings. I couldn't tell you song and album names as my GF plays it on her ipod for me. I just like the dynamic and sound of the band, they are definitely an oasis of good music in a world of crap. That is why I was so disappointed last night. Tucson has little enough music of an international standard to enjoy anyway. As for emailing criticism to management, I am sure they have people reading these posts, I know most every band checks their fan forums. I just finished with Prince after some time with him, and he scours all his forums for criticism, and takes fan posts very seriously. As for my being hypercritical, of course I am, that is part of my job, and I will always strive to produce the best possible show. I do not think it is a bad thing.

[pawpaw]

I just finished with Prince...

Were you a part of his recent residency at the O2 Arena in London? If so, I'm sure that must've been a special run to be a part of...

[Rockerc]

Yeah, did all 21 shows there. Had to switch out the sound system after 3 shows because of my hypercritical ears :)

[getinthevan]

Rockerc, I appreciate your honesty.  You came in and said something negative about the band and I'm sure someone will tell you that this isn't the place to do do that.  But I feel differently.  I think if you can do it politely and give your reasons than you are more than welcome to share your OPINIONS on a PUBLIC message board.  Why anyone would think differently sometimes confuses me.

I empathize with your situation.  I have training and a little experience in audio engineering.  I've been going to concerts regularly for the last 8 years.  I know the difference between good sound and bad sound.  I also know that for me, bad sound can ruin the show.  There's nothing worse than paying hard earned money on a ticket, only to be disappointed.  

So thank you and welcome to the board.  I hope you stick around and I hope the oncoming wave of bullshit you'll hear because of this doesn't last too long.  

I also hope this thread doesn't mysteriously disappear at some point.

[BH]

You're in the "biz"? :P

[odatat]

Well Sir I was right behind you and they did seem to have a few problems but not enough to leave before the end of a great show.Tucson was very reseptive to the band.They were quite during the slow songs and elated for the whole show.And I do mean show ,light show, the Jim show ,the Carl show ,the Patrick drum show.We are very blessed that they choose to come to Tucson after Las Vegas cancelled.We were at the Phx. show also and they blew the doors off the Marquee.Rialto was alittle more laid back.More older songs.I sure hope someone will post the setlist as I can't remember the whole thing.Thank you MMJ for thinken of us here in Tucson and please come back to the last frontier soon.

[getinthevan]

odatat, check the other Tuscon thread for the setlist

[Sherpa]

I understand and appreciate the criticism. My best bud is an engineer in LA and would understand everything you are talking about. I look forward to his input on the open air show in sd soon.

I hope you have a better time at your next show.

[Rockerc]

Thanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.

[moemoephoto]

Thanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.

They were already over at that point... Phil would never have performed with them again unfortunately.

[getinthevan]

Thanks for the honesty "getinthevan", and nice avatar by the way. I did a few tours with Pantera in their heyday, it was a sad day when that lunatic took it upon himself to end their day.

They were already over at that point... Phil would never have performed with them again unfortunately.

Unfortunately they were done at that point.  I still hung on to some glimmer of hope that maybe someday they would get back together but the well documented public shit slinging made me realize that it would never happen.  

Which tours did you do with Pantera and for that matter, what'd they have you doing?  

[purvis9876]

My Girlfriend treated myself, my daughter visiting from the UK, and her boyfriend, to tickets to the Rialto last night. I can't say I am a big fan, but have enjoyed some of the older material my girlfriend has played me. I wanted to like the show so much, but in the end we had to leave before the end as it was about all we could stand. I have been in the touring biz for 35 years, was myself an audio engineer for several years, and have been a production manager for many years with some of the world's top artists. My GF is also in the biz, my daughter is a singer/songwriter, and her boyfriend is an audio engineer himself. The sound quality in the Rialto was dreadful. We were stood at the back of the standing area but not under the balcony, so should have had the best of possible sounds there. Everything was muddy and indistinct, instruments far too loud a lot of the time, vocal almost indistinguishable from the morass of volume, and the whole utterly lacking in any dynamic. Perhaps the band were having a bad night, the singer certainly sounded as if he was struggling to hit any high notes, and I am well aware of the inability to "polish a turd" by any audio engineer presented with poor source material to work with, but this was inexcusible. We had to leave well before the end, and I did think of asking for my money back, but then realised it was not my money, and the biz needs all the financial input it can get right now, if for no other reason than to be able to afford decent audio engineers. Must do better chaps...

*Bites tongue, bites tongue, bites tongue*  :-X

Welcome(ass). I don't believe I would EVER go on a band's forum whose show I was so amazingly disappointed by just to criticize them. Get over yourself. Opinions are certainly welcome, but I guess I just do not see the need for things like this.

[Rockerc]

Jeez! You tell me to get over myself? Just the kind of bigotry I was talking about. I have an honest opinion and you guys are slagging me for it? What happened to the spirit of honesty and integrity? If mankind is as narrow-minded as some of you obviously are I am disappointed indeed. Get a life.
By the way getinthevan, I was production manager for Skid Row when Pantera opened for them, around '92/'93 I guess, then I did some of the Vulgar Display world tour, then Far Beyond Driven world tour, and more recently the Reinventing the Steel tour, all as production manager. I count the band and crew members as good friends, it was a tragic loss to lose Dime and the others, and I too held out a hope for a reunion prior to the shooting.

[Crispy]

Weird: I'm reading this thread while listening to MMJ doing I Could Never Take The Place of Your Man, then I get to the part where subby was working for Prince. OK, not so weird, whatevs. Welcome, and welcome to your opinion rockerc - I've certainly been to shows where terrible sound quality had ruined it for me too, luckily, none of those were MMJ shows. I'll have to object to the "poor source material" comment however if that was in regards to the music itself.
I have witnessed first-hand those who even when presented the Jacket in their finest form, an incredible show at Red Rocks, will walk away 75% of the way through the show and go home. That was my buddy in Denver who is, by way of an excuse, an acoustic music fan, so the electricity and power weren't doing much for him. Some of us can't get enough of this band, and others, well, there's no accounting for taste. ;)