Presale is BS

[thebugman]

if they were going to sell all of the good seats during presale then why not just have the tix go on sale for wed??

this is in regards to the bham show...i think its ridonkulous, dont get me wrong, im pumped as shit about going and cant wait but i think its unfair to us that are not in the "know". this show is every scalpers dream so i think presale is specifically for them and not the fans.

NUFF SAID, LETS ROCK! just my 2 cents

[capt. scotty]

how do you know all the good seats are going in the presale?  :-?

[shananana]

if they were going to sell all of the good seats during presale then why not just have the tix go on sale for wed??

this is in regards to the bham show...i think its ridonkulous, dont get me wrong, im pumped as shit about going and cant wait but i think its unfair to us that are not in the "know". this show is every scalpers dream so i think presale is specifically for them and not the fans.

NUFF SAID, LETS ROCK! just my 2 cents

what i find interesting is that the presale password wasn't released to the fans on the mmj email list.  my boyfriend just HAPPENED to get it from red mountain entertainment... some list he accidentally signed up for years ago.

[jones]

 :'(

[ericm]

I don't really agree with the "all the good seats will be gone " thing.

I've done many presales over the years, and have gotten better seats at the general sale more than a few times.

Usually the presale sets aside tix in certain sections and that's it. Some good seats and others not so good.

I usually try at the presale and if I don't like what I'm pulling, I have no problem waiting for the general sale.

Best advice is don't panic and run to brokers/scalpers,if you don't get what you want through the presale. Wait and see what the general offers.

[thebugman]

well my theory being that if all the good seats were not sold during presale how come at 10 on the dot this morning i pull row u in the balcony? i could have gotten row L last night at 9pm...but we took a chance and gambled cause we thought we could do better.

so yea...put it in your pipe and smoke it, proof is in the pudding...now if you were just pulling single seats then maybe u did luck up today but i would rather sit with my friends than sit alone.

mmj website said from the get go tix go on sale Feb 5th....hmmm

all you guys who are against me must not be sitting in row u in balcony...

[shananana]

well my theory being that if all the good seats were not sold during presale how come at 10 on the dot this morning i pull row u in the balcony? i could have gotten row L last night at 9pm...but we took a chance and gambled cause we thought we could do better.

so yea...put it in your pipe and smoke it, proof is in the pudding...now if you were just pulling single seats then maybe u did luck up today but i would rather sit with my friends than sit alone.

mmj website said from the get go tix go on sale Feb 5th....hmmm

all you guys who are against me must not be sitting in row u in balcony...

i'm gonna have to agree, for the most part.  presale tix went like hotcakes... general sale on the dot at 10 a.m. was pulling balcony.  

i can't believe you pulled row L last night - that's better than what i got right when presale began.  sorry you missed out on those good seats!

regardless, it's mmj and we shall have a blast

[SplatSplatSplat]

Pre-sale IS for scalpers.  I read a couple of days ago when the presale started that some of you were finding tickets on ebay and such.  

Ticketmaster is in bed with all of those scalping websites.  They & the artists get a cut of the inflated prices.  I read a while back about how Ticketmaster wanted to start pricing better seats at more elevated prices but they couldn't for some reason or another - i don't have the article to reference b/c i can't find it at the moment AND i'm at work so i don't have time.  Essentially, until ticketmaster can price tickets the way they want, they give these scalpers first choice and then get a cut of the profits - it's a loophole they exploit and will continue to do so until they get their wishes.  They win, people who work hard and spend what little money they have to see their favorite bands lose.  Got a trust fund?  You'll never have to worry about being left out.

Don't believe me?  Check out Mr. Trent Reznor laying the law down last year after the Bruce Springsteen/Ticketmaster debacle:

http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?59,548515

This comes from an older article (2003) from cbsnews.com but it still highlights ticketmaster's mentality towards ticket prices:

Ticketmaster's plan, by contrast, involves the first time sale of tickets and does not appear to be subject to anti-scalper rules.

"The tickets are worth what they're worth," said Ticketmaster CEO and president John Pleasants, in an interview with the Times. "If somebody wants to charge $50 for a ticket, but it's actually worth $1,000 on eBay, the ticket's worth $1,000. I think more and more, our clients - the promoters, the clients in the buildings and the bands themselves - are saying to themselves 'Maybe that money should be coming to me instead of Bob the Broker.'

I'm thrilled to death that some of you got good seats/knew about the presale/are in good with whomever hooked you up with the info, but that info should've been made TO ALL FANS.  The main crux of this website is that MMJ does very little to let their fans know what is going on: i find out more information from the freaking boards than i do the main page of this website.

You want to see how it's done?  I can't believe i'm going to say this, but look at Widespread Panic's website and see how it's run.  I'm by no means a fan of WP - but i have a friends who are devoted- and i know that WP keeps their fans abreast of what is going on with the band at all times.  They have one of the most loyal followings in the country and it's COMMUNICATION that powers it.  Other than that, WP can kiss my ass.

I don't mean to be hating on the Jacket, but i've given them thousands of dollars, seen plenty of shows, damn near traveled over 200 miles at the least for every one of them and to see this bullshit really makes my blood boil.

And before you guys get on here and say that i don't need to be on the boards bad mouthing the Band/the website - i have a right to do so.  I have the right to make my voice heard especially if i think it will bring about good.

I am a super fan.  I will be in Birmingham.  And i love this band more than you ever will.   ;)

[woodsy]

all i have to say is that the passwords for the presale were made public on this forum the morning of the sale... just so ya know.  

[shananana]

all i have to say is that the passwords for the presale were made public on this forum the morning of the sale... just so ya know.  

You're right, they were... but from what I understand it was a fan that posted them.  And, not everyone can log onto the message boards from their place of work, etc.  I think that anyone that's on the fan email list should have gotten a presale code, without having to rely on (very kind) other fans to provide those for them.  Just my two cents.

[shananana]

all i have to say is that the passwords for the presale were made public on this forum the morning of the sale... just so ya know.  

You're right, they were... but from what I understand it was a fan that posted them.  And, not everyone can log onto the message boards from their place of work, etc.  I think that anyone that's on the fan email list should have gotten a presale code, without having to rely on (very kind) other fans to provide those for them.  Just my two cents.

Ok, correction, Admin posted them... my mistake.  I saw some fan postings before the Admin posting, so that's where my info was from.  Regardless, the presale emails were sent the night before, but not from the MMJ site... I just think it wouldn't be terrible if the fan email list was apprised of presale codes.  

[shananana]

Pre-sale IS for scalpers.  I read a couple of days ago when the presale started that some of you were finding tickets on ebay and such.  

Ticketmaster is in bed with all of those scalping websites.  They & the artists get a cut of the inflated prices.  I read a while back about how Ticketmaster wanted to start pricing better seats at more elevated prices but they couldn't for some reason or another - i don't have the article to reference b/c i can't find it at the moment AND i'm at work so i don't have time.  Essentially, until ticketmaster can price tickets the way they want, they give these scalpers first choice and then get a cut of the profits - it's a loophole they exploit and will continue to do so until they get their wishes.  They win, people who work hard and spend what little money they have to see their favorite bands lose.  Got a trust fund?  You'll never have to worry about being left out.

Don't believe me?  Check out Mr. Trent Reznor laying the law down last year after the Bruce Springsteen/Ticketmaster debacle:

http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?59,548515

This comes from an older article (2003) from cbsnews.com but it still highlights ticketmaster's mentality towards ticket prices:

Ticketmaster's plan, by contrast, involves the first time sale of tickets and does not appear to be subject to anti-scalper rules.

"The tickets are worth what they're worth," said Ticketmaster CEO and president John Pleasants, in an interview with the Times. "If somebody wants to charge $50 for a ticket, but it's actually worth $1,000 on eBay, the ticket's worth $1,000. I think more and more, our clients - the promoters, the clients in the buildings and the bands themselves - are saying to themselves 'Maybe that money should be coming to me instead of Bob the Broker.'

I'm thrilled to death that some of you got good seats/knew about the presale/are in good with whomever hooked you up with the info, but that info should've been made TO ALL FANS.  The main crux of this website is that MMJ does very little to let their fans know what is going on: i find out more information from the freaking boards than i do the main page of this website.

You want to see how it's done?  I can't believe i'm going to say this, but look at Widespread Panic's website and see how it's run.  I'm by no means a fan of WP - but i have a friends who are devoted- and i know that WP keeps their fans abreast of what is going on with the band at all times.  They have one of the most loyal followings in the country and it's COMMUNICATION that powers it.  Other than that, WP can kiss my ass.

I don't mean to be hating on the Jacket, but i've given them thousands of dollars, seen plenty of shows, damn near traveled over 200 miles at the least for every one of them and to see this bullshit really makes my blood boil.

And before you guys get on here and say that i don't need to be on the boards bad mouthing the Band/the website - i have a right to do so.  I have the right to make my voice heard especially if i think it will bring about good.

I am a super fan.  I will be in Birmingham.  And i love this band more than you ever will.   ;)

Interesting posting from Reznor.  Thanks for the link.  

[shananana]

Pre-sale IS for scalpers.  I read a couple of days ago when the presale started that some of you were finding tickets on ebay and such.  

Ticketmaster is in bed with all of those scalping websites.  They & the artists get a cut of the inflated prices.  I read a while back about how Ticketmaster wanted to start pricing better seats at more elevated prices but they couldn't for some reason or another - i don't have the article to reference b/c i can't find it at the moment AND i'm at work so i don't have time.  Essentially, until ticketmaster can price tickets the way they want, they give these scalpers first choice and then get a cut of the profits - it's a loophole they exploit and will continue to do so until they get their wishes.  They win, people who work hard and spend what little money they have to see their favorite bands lose.  Got a trust fund?  You'll never have to worry about being left out.

Don't believe me?  Check out Mr. Trent Reznor laying the law down last year after the Bruce Springsteen/Ticketmaster debacle:

http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?59,548515

This comes from an older article (2003) from cbsnews.com but it still highlights ticketmaster's mentality towards ticket prices:

Ticketmaster's plan, by contrast, involves the first time sale of tickets and does not appear to be subject to anti-scalper rules.

"The tickets are worth what they're worth," said Ticketmaster CEO and president John Pleasants, in an interview with the Times. "If somebody wants to charge $50 for a ticket, but it's actually worth $1,000 on eBay, the ticket's worth $1,000. I think more and more, our clients - the promoters, the clients in the buildings and the bands themselves - are saying to themselves 'Maybe that money should be coming to me instead of Bob the Broker.'

I'm thrilled to death that some of you got good seats/knew about the presale/are in good with whomever hooked you up with the info, but that info should've been made TO ALL FANS.  The main crux of this website is that MMJ does very little to let their fans know what is going on: i find out more information from the freaking boards than i do the main page of this website.

You want to see how it's done?  I can't believe i'm going to say this, but look at Widespread Panic's website and see how it's run.  I'm by no means a fan of WP - but i have a friends who are devoted- and i know that WP keeps their fans abreast of what is going on with the band at all times.  They have one of the most loyal followings in the country and it's COMMUNICATION that powers it.  Other than that, WP can kiss my ass.

I don't mean to be hating on the Jacket, but i've given them thousands of dollars, seen plenty of shows, damn near traveled over 200 miles at the least for every one of them and to see this bullshit really makes my blood boil.

And before you guys get on here and say that i don't need to be on the boards bad mouthing the Band/the website - i have a right to do so.  I have the right to make my voice heard especially if i think it will bring about good.

I am a super fan.  I will be in Birmingham.  And i love this band more than you ever will.   ;)

Interesting posting from Reznor.  Thanks for the link.  

[kev]

This is an interesting, and very hot, topic.  As with most situations in life, it depends on what side of the coin you are on.  I can see both sides: the reseller who thinks, "Hey, why can't I buy something and resell it for profit?", I also understand the fan who can hardly afford face value and a ride to the show, scratching for a little slice of heaven one night and can't get squat.  I did look at ebay yesterday for Cary tickets and someone had a posting for up to eight tickets at approximately $120 a piece!  WOW!  I remember the debacle and stress that was Radio City Music Hall tickets the other year!  Wow, talk about high prices and repeated searches on "ticket-massah" until we finally snagged a couple for face value on there.

I contemplated too long on the pre-sale for Cary two days ago and ended up not getting the pit lawn seats.  I checked in today at exactly noon and there were more pit lawn tickets, so I snatched a couple for me and my wife!  Last show I saw was Myrtle Beach summer 08, and our last show together was NYC RCMH summer 08!  Oh, hell yeah, that was awesome!!!  First time seeing the jacket was Orange Peel a few years ago - totally awesome at that venue, hoping Cary is a good time.  I thought, hey, they might not be together much longer and I would hate to miss what could be a last shot of them together.  Hope I'm wrong and there are many more tours and albums with new music.

[kev]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

[ericm]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

It's already being done in some places,Kev.

They're calling it "paperless ticketing". I believe it started with a Miley Cyress tour of all things, but I know  Springsteen  used it at some venues on his last tour .

There are a few hangups, but all in all, it works well imo.

You need to have the cc used for purchase and a photo id.When you get to the venue they scan the card with a hand held scanner at entry and you get a little printout with your seat location on it.

It keeps the tix away from scalpers, since they don't want to go to the show,and the only way in, is after the cc is scanned.

I believe the Cleveland Cavaliers of the NBA have this system in place for all seats in their arena.

[liverustdave]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

That's what other bands do...Pearl Jam, DMB, Phish, Wilco, etc.  In order to make it fair for the" real" fans, the bands have to get actively involved to make it difficult for scalpers. I can consistently get awesome Wilco seats through pre-sale, since they seem to negotiate that the presale seat selection is better than regular sale...and they limit the purchase amount as well to 4 tickets...sometimes to only 2 tickets.  And they do NOT do their presales through ticketmaster.  

Or do it old school like the Dead/Furthur/Phil Lesh do it.  They negotiate and make sure they get the best seats in a venue....then they open up for mail order.  You literally prepare a SASE (self addresses stamped envelope for youngins), add in a 3x5 card with your purchase request along with the $$....(then if you are really hard core, you spend days decorating your envelope).   Send it in and then the band has a group go through by postmark and then 6-12 weeks late --- you get awesome tickets, every time.  

http://www.gdtstoo.com/

Anyway, take on this issue...is that once it becomes a real issue, the band has to get involved in some fashion.  MMJ might be at the cusp of this threshold where they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords.  Once enough "real" fans get screwed out of the best seats, something will have to be done.

I'd send a note to MMJ manager if enough of you got screwed out of good seats.  Sounds like most people got what they needed though...

[thebugman]

its all bullshit, congrats to the scalpers and to some few who got the diggity seats!

[shananana]

This is an interesting, and very hot, topic.  As with most situations in life, it depends on what side of the coin you are on.  I can see both sides: the reseller who thinks, "Hey, why can't I buy something and resell it for profit?", I also understand the fan who can hardly afford face value and a ride to the show, scratching for a little slice of heaven one night and can't get squat.  I did look at ebay yesterday for Cary tickets and someone had a posting for up to eight tickets at approximately $120 a piece!  WOW!  I remember the debacle and stress that was Radio City Music Hall tickets the other year!  Wow, talk about high prices and repeated searches on "ticket-massah" until we finally snagged a couple for face value on there.

I contemplated too long on the pre-sale for Cary two days ago and ended up not getting the pit lawn seats.  I checked in today at exactly noon and there were more pit lawn tickets, so I snatched a couple for me and my wife!  Last show I saw was Myrtle Beach summer 08, and our last show together was NYC RCMH summer 08!  Oh, hell yeah, that was awesome!!!  First time seeing the jacket was Orange Peel a few years ago - totally awesome at that venue, hoping Cary is a good time.  I thought, hey, they might not be together much longer and I would hate to miss what could be a last shot of them together.  Hope I'm wrong and there are many more tours and albums with new music.

Dude - RCMH - we were there and it was a smokin show!  And you ain't lyin about that ticket search!  My girlfriends and I were all online AND on the phone with ticketmaster right when those puppies went on sale and we still got upper balcony.  Regardless... was an AWESOME experience.

[thebigbang]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

That's what other bands do...Pearl Jam, DMB, Phish, Wilco, etc.  In order to make it fair for the" real" fans, the bands have to get actively involved to make it difficult for scalpers. I can consistently get awesome Wilco seats through pre-sale, since they seem to negotiate that the presale seat selection is better than regular sale...and they limit the purchase amount as well to 4 tickets...sometimes to only 2 tickets.  And they do NOT do their presales through ticketmaster.  

Or do it old school like the Dead/Furthur/Phil Lesh do it.  They negotiate and make sure they get the best seats in a venue....then they open up for mail order.  You literally prepare a SASE (self addresses stamped envelope for youngins), add in a 3x5 card with your purchase request along with the $$....(then if you are really hard core, you spend days decorating your envelope).   Send it in and then the band has a group go through by postmark and then 6-12 weeks late --- you get awesome tickets, every time.  

http://www.gdtstoo.com/

Anyway, take on this issue...is that once it becomes a real issue, the band has to get involved in some fashion.  MMJ might be at the cusp of this threshold where they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords.  Once enough "real" fans get screwed out of the best seats, something will have to be done.

I'd send a note to MMJ manager if enough of you got screwed out of good seats.  Sounds like most people got what they needed though...

I agree with most of your statements about the need to cut the scalpers out. If that profit is to be made it should go to the band, but ideally they'd agree to seek out ways to keep prices reasonable so the average person can afford to attend.

But I have mixed feelings about the last part of your comments--
"they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords"--

I am a fan from way, way back since I was lucky enough to stumble upon them back in 2000 and have seen 30 shows at last count. I even helped mind the merchandise tables a couple of times briefly at some early shows and put the original Jacket Junkies fan club website together, and was a defacto unpaid publicity man promoting the band on the web and forums from 2000-2002. I drove 600 miles to catch Saturday/Sunday shows in Rochester/Buffalo NY and drove back overnight on Sunday after the show to work the next day.  So those are some of my BIG FAN credentials.

But so what?  If someone just discovered this band on YouTube last night or a friend just turned them on to the band recently and they want to go to the show I don't think I inherently have a greater right to buy a  ticket than the new fan does. To be clear, I can appreciate the idea that bands want to make "hard core" fans feel special and show them some gratitude, but the ticket sales systems in general are so manipulated by the venues, ticket sellers and scalpers that all I really need to make me happy is that everyone be given a reasonably fair chance to buy tickets.  As for mailing to the real fans only, in the real world any scalper who was serious about their business would soon be on the "real fan" lists so they can get the codes anyway.

I guess the egalitarian bent I have just doesn't like the presale concept. People who have more time than others to haunt these forums and such things are not necessarily more deserving fans. I just like the idea of people having an equal chance to get good seats.

p.s. For what it's worth, my last experience with presale was Monsters of Folk at the Louisville Palace.  From the moment the presale went live I kept getting offered tickets near the back and in the balcony.  I was bummed and didn't buy them.  I went to the box office the day after the general sale started and got tickets in the seventh row, center. The box office sales lady said the presale  was for blocks of tickets in different areas, so good seats were still available in the general sale.  I don't know if that is how all presales work, but that's what I was told.