Presale is BS

[manicfanatic]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

That's what other bands do...Pearl Jam, DMB, Phish, Wilco, etc.  In order to make it fair for the" real" fans, the bands have to get actively involved to make it difficult for scalpers. I can consistently get awesome Wilco seats through pre-sale, since they seem to negotiate that the presale seat selection is better than regular sale...and they limit the purchase amount as well to 4 tickets...sometimes to only 2 tickets.  And they do NOT do their presales through ticketmaster.  

Or do it old school like the Dead/Furthur/Phil Lesh do it.  They negotiate and make sure they get the best seats in a venue....then they open up for mail order.  You literally prepare a SASE (self addresses stamped envelope for youngins), add in a 3x5 card with your purchase request along with the $$....(then if you are really hard core, you spend days decorating your envelope).   Send it in and then the band has a group go through by postmark and then 6-12 weeks late --- you get awesome tickets, every time.  

http://www.gdtstoo.com/

Anyway, take on this issue...is that once it becomes a real issue, the band has to get involved in some fashion.  MMJ might be at the cusp of this threshold where they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords.  Once enough "real" fans get screwed out of the best seats, something will have to be done.

I'd send a note to MMJ manager if enough of you got screwed out of good seats.  Sounds like most people got what they needed though...

I agree with most of your statements about the need to cut the scalpers out. If that profit is to be made it should go to the band, but ideally they'd agree to seek out ways to keep prices reasonable so the average person can afford to attend.

But I have mixed feelings about the last part of your comments--
"they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords"--

I am a fan from way, way back since I was lucky enough to stumble upon them back in 2000 and have seen 30 shows at last count. I even helped mind the merchandise tables a couple of times briefly at some early shows and put the original Jacket Junkies fan club website together, and was a defacto unpaid publicity man promoting the band on the web and forums from 2000-2002. I drove 600 miles to catch Saturday/Sunday shows in Rochester/Buffalo NY and drove back overnight on Sunday after the show to work the next day.  So those are some of my BIG FAN credentials.

But so what?  If someone just discovered this band on YouTube last night or a friend just turned them on to the band recently and they want to go to the show I don't think I inherently have a greater right to buy a  ticket than the new fan does. To be clear, I can appreciate the idea that bands want to make "hard core" fans feel special and show them some gratitude, but the ticket sales systems in general are so manipulated by the venues, ticket sellers and scalpers that all I really need to make me happy is that everyone be given a reasonably fair chance to buy tickets.  As for mailing to the real fans only, in the real world any scalper who was serious about their business would soon be on the "real fan" lists so they can get the codes anyway.

I guess the egalitarian bent I have just doesn't like the presale concept. People who have more time than others to haunt these forums and such things are not necessarily more deserving fans. I just like the idea of people having an equal chance to get good seats.

p.s. For what it's worth, my last experience with presale was Monsters of Folk at the Louisville Palace.  From the moment the presale went live I kept getting offered tickets near the back and in the balcony.  I was bummed and didn't buy them.  I went to the box office the day after the general sale started and got tickets in the seventh row, center. The box office sales lady said the presale  was for blocks of tickets in different areas, so good seats were still available in the general sale.  I don't know if that is how all presales work, but that's what I was told.

That has been my experience with these presales over the years.  I have always been able to get better seats when they went on sale to the general public.  The only time I really do presale is if I know that I am not going to be around when the general sale happens.

[thebigbang]

That has been my experience with these presales over the years.  I have always been able to get better seats when they went on sale to the general public.  The only time I really do presale is if I know that I am not going to be around when the general sale happens.

One other occasion to use presale is if you are fairly certain that the show will sell out quickly. It is definitely an advantage in those circumstances.

[shananana]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

That's what other bands do...Pearl Jam, DMB, Phish, Wilco, etc.  In order to make it fair for the" real" fans, the bands have to get actively involved to make it difficult for scalpers. I can consistently get awesome Wilco seats through pre-sale, since they seem to negotiate that the presale seat selection is better than regular sale...and they limit the purchase amount as well to 4 tickets...sometimes to only 2 tickets.  And they do NOT do their presales through ticketmaster.  

Or do it old school like the Dead/Furthur/Phil Lesh do it.  They negotiate and make sure they get the best seats in a venue....then they open up for mail order.  You literally prepare a SASE (self addresses stamped envelope for youngins), add in a 3x5 card with your purchase request along with the $$....(then if you are really hard core, you spend days decorating your envelope).   Send it in and then the band has a group go through by postmark and then 6-12 weeks late --- you get awesome tickets, every time.  

http://www.gdtstoo.com/

Anyway, take on this issue...is that once it becomes a real issue, the band has to get involved in some fashion.  MMJ might be at the cusp of this threshold where they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords.  Once enough "real" fans get screwed out of the best seats, something will have to be done.

I'd send a note to MMJ manager if enough of you got screwed out of good seats.  Sounds like most people got what they needed though...

I agree with most of your statements about the need to cut the scalpers out. If that profit is to be made it should go to the band, but ideally they'd agree to seek out ways to keep prices reasonable so the average person can afford to attend.

But I have mixed feelings about the last part of your comments--
"they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords"--

I am a fan from way, way back since I was lucky enough to stumble upon them back in 2000 and have seen 30 shows at last count. I even helped mind the merchandise tables a couple of times briefly at some early shows and put the original Jacket Junkies fan club website together, and was a defacto unpaid publicity man promoting the band on the web and forums from 2000-2002. I drove 600 miles to catch Saturday/Sunday shows in Rochester/Buffalo NY and drove back overnight on Sunday after the show to work the next day.  So those are some of my BIG FAN credentials.

But so what?  If someone just discovered this band on YouTube last night or a friend just turned them on to the band recently and they want to go to the show I don't think I inherently have a greater right to buy a  ticket than the new fan does. To be clear, I can appreciate the idea that bands want to make "hard core" fans feel special and show them some gratitude, but the ticket sales systems in general are so manipulated by the venues, ticket sellers and scalpers that all I really need to make me happy is that everyone be given a reasonably fair chance to buy tickets.  As for mailing to the real fans only, in the real world any scalper who was serious about their business would soon be on the "real fan" lists so they can get the codes anyway.

I guess the egalitarian bent I have just doesn't like the presale concept. People who have more time than others to haunt these forums and such things are not necessarily more deserving fans. I just like the idea of people having an equal chance to get good seats.

p.s. For what it's worth, my last experience with presale was Monsters of Folk at the Louisville Palace.  From the moment the presale went live I kept getting offered tickets near the back and in the balcony.  I was bummed and didn't buy them.  I went to the box office the day after the general sale started and got tickets in the seventh row, center. The box office sales lady said the presale  was for blocks of tickets in different areas, so good seats were still available in the general sale.  I don't know if that is how all presales work, but that's what I was told.

You make some good points and I concur, for the most part.

My big hangup is that lots of venues don't sell tix at the box office anymore.  The birmingham venue, for example, told me the only way to buy a ticket was to go online... and pay all the TM fees.  I just hate that... by no way am I insinuating this is the band's, their agents', etc., fault, it's just shitty that lots of times the ONLY choice you have is to go to the venue.

ANNND with this presale/gen-sale, unless they are releasing more tix... presale was the way to go.  At least in b'ham it was.  

[shananana]

Sorry, I meant to say "the only choice you have is to go online," NOT "the only choice you have is to go to the venue.

OOOOPS!  :)

[liverustdave]

Oh yeah, since I started rambling in my first reply :), I forgot my original thought which was maybe a good way to stop reselling for too much would be to have tickets only available for pick up or only in your name with ID - pretty much what Trent said in the link provided by the other poster (which was an interesting read by the way).  

That's what other bands do...Pearl Jam, DMB, Phish, Wilco, etc.  In order to make it fair for the" real" fans, the bands have to get actively involved to make it difficult for scalpers. I can consistently get awesome Wilco seats through pre-sale, since they seem to negotiate that the presale seat selection is better than regular sale...and they limit the purchase amount as well to 4 tickets...sometimes to only 2 tickets.  And they do NOT do their presales through ticketmaster.  

Or do it old school like the Dead/Furthur/Phil Lesh do it.  They negotiate and make sure they get the best seats in a venue....then they open up for mail order.  You literally prepare a SASE (self addresses stamped envelope for youngins), add in a 3x5 card with your purchase request along with the $$....(then if you are really hard core, you spend days decorating your envelope).   Send it in and then the band has a group go through by postmark and then 6-12 weeks late --- you get awesome tickets, every time.  

http://www.gdtstoo.com/

Anyway, take on this issue...is that once it becomes a real issue, the band has to get involved in some fashion.  MMJ might be at the cusp of this threshold where they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords.  Once enough "real" fans get screwed out of the best seats, something will have to be done.

I'd send a note to MMJ manager if enough of you got screwed out of good seats.  Sounds like most people got what they needed though...

I agree with most of your statements about the need to cut the scalpers out. If that profit is to be made it should go to the band, but ideally they'd agree to seek out ways to keep prices reasonable so the average person can afford to attend.

But I have mixed feelings about the last part of your comments--
"they need to send mailers out to the fan list only.  It was way too easy for any schmoe to pick up these presale passwords"--

I am a fan from way, way back since I was lucky enough to stumble upon them back in 2000 and have seen 30 shows at last count. I even helped mind the merchandise tables a couple of times briefly at some early shows and put the original Jacket Junkies fan club website together, and was a defacto unpaid publicity man promoting the band on the web and forums from 2000-2002. I drove 600 miles to catch Saturday/Sunday shows in Rochester/Buffalo NY and drove back overnight on Sunday after the show to work the next day.  So those are some of my BIG FAN credentials.

But so what?  If someone just discovered this band on YouTube last night or a friend just turned them on to the band recently and they want to go to the show I don't think I inherently have a greater right to buy a  ticket than the new fan does. To be clear, I can appreciate the idea that bands want to make "hard core" fans feel special and show them some gratitude, but the ticket sales systems in general are so manipulated by the venues, ticket sellers and scalpers that all I really need to make me happy is that everyone be given a reasonably fair chance to buy tickets.  As for mailing to the real fans only, in the real world any scalper who was serious about their business would soon be on the "real fan" lists so they can get the codes anyway.

I guess the egalitarian bent I have just doesn't like the presale concept. People who have more time than others to haunt these forums and such things are not necessarily more deserving fans. I just like the idea of people having an equal chance to get good seats.

p.s. For what it's worth, my last experience with presale was Monsters of Folk at the Louisville Palace.  From the moment the presale went live I kept getting offered tickets near the back and in the balcony.  I was bummed and didn't buy them.  I went to the box office the day after the general sale started and got tickets in the seventh row, center. The box office sales lady said the presale  was for blocks of tickets in different areas, so good seats were still available in the general sale.  I don't know if that is how all presales work, but that's what I was told.

Totally agree...instead of schmoe I should said scalper schmoe.  I'm saying once the scalper situation gets to a boiling point (as it has with other bands I listed), MMJ will have to get more involved. If you create some sort of more exclusive presale with a direct line to the best seats, you will cut down on scalping activity by let's say 25%. Which in turn creates 25% more great tickets for fans (hard core and newbs alike). Then we will get 25% less "Presale is BS" threads.  :) This is a solvable problem for the most part...you can't stop it entirely but you can make it difficult for them.  I really do think things are changing....more and more bands are reserving best seats for the fans, more venues are holding back tickets for real fans....but again, usually those bands and venues aren't working through Ticketmaster/Live Nation.

[kev]

[/quote]


Dude - RCMH - we were there and it was a smokin show!  And you ain't lyin about that ticket search!  My girlfriends and I were all online AND on the phone with ticketmaster right when those puppies went on sale and we still got upper balcony.  Regardless... was an AWESOME experience.
[/quote]

Yeah, we were in the very back middle - as in on the back wall, but it was cool anyway!!  I was thinking there were empty seats up there, no?  Do you remember anything about that?

[ALady]

I've been pretty happy with the way Pearl Jam has changed up their fanclub presales of late - generally, the best seats in the venue go to those with the lowest fanclub number/most seniority.  But the 1st and 2nd and 9th and 10th rows are randomized among all fanclub numbers, so the newer fans have a chance at some the closest rows, which is pretty cool.

[shananana]

Dude - RCMH - we were there and it was a smokin show!  And you ain't lyin about that ticket search!  My girlfriends and I were all online AND on the phone with ticketmaster right when those puppies went on sale and we still got upper balcony.  Regardless... was an AWESOME experience.
[/quote]

Yeah, we were in the very back middle - as in on the back wall, but it was cool anyway!!  I was thinking there were empty seats up there, no?  Do you remember anything about that?[/quote]

You know, now that you mention it... there might have been some empty seats in the upper rows behind us, but I don't necessarily remember.  We were so hyped up about that show (we traveled from Tampa, FL) that I don't think we were paying attention to everyone around us, lol.  Great time, though...

[liverustdave]

I've been pretty happy with the way Pearl Jam has changed up their fanclub presales of late - generally, the best seats in the venue go to those with the lowest fanclub number/most seniority.  But the 1st and 2nd and 9th and 10th rows are randomized among all fanclub numbers, so the newer fans have a chance at some the closest rows, which is pretty cool.

Now that is cool.