How are primaries goin'?

[lfish]

With a new mediashow ahead in the US,  I was just asking myself how are you guys all doing and what are your opinions on this matter?  Are you going for another four years of terror and economic disaster? Or are you goin' for the democratic party? Dean? Clark?
Any prognostics?

[my_evening_jacket]

I'm dreamin' of a Dean White House
With every Christmas card I write.

[my_evening_jacket]

Seriously - I will probably leave the US of A if Bush gets reelected.

Bowie once said "I'm Afraid of Americans"

I am becoming ashamed (and afraid) to be an american.

[jacksoncooper]

Just for perspective, I'll let you know that I'm proud to be in America.  Even if I'm not on-board with Bush's plan 100%, I don't see a viable Democratic alternative.  I love this country; and even if a president I don't agree with gets elected, I'm not going to lose hope and bail out. I see this as a country worth fighting for, so I'm willing to do what I can to make it better.

It's a shame, really.  Because if there were a Democrat out there that fit my picture of a good executive and strong national leader, I'd vote for him or her in a second.  I just don't see that person in the current field.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Ah, but therein lies the rub:  the lesser of two evils argument.

IMHO, any incompetent Democrat is safer for all of us than a re-elected Bush.  Period, end of statement.

I too believe strongly in our country.  But, I rather have my eyes gouged out than repeat the debacle of 2000.  We really, REALLY need to show some unity and repeat the following mantra:

Anyone except Bush in 2004.

[my_evening_jacket]

I see this as a country worth fighting for, so I'm willing to do what I can to make it better.

Hey Jackson - Are you currently serving in the military?  Or are you a veteran?

Bush was not elected, he was appointed by the supreme court.  He has made a joke out of the bill of rights.  He deserted the military during a time of war and now wants to send others to die so that he and Cheney and other corporations can make billions while the poor and working class are sent to die.

I am not with Bush 100%.  He is the worst thing that happened to this country.

[lfish]

John why don't you go for president?

Here's what your program may be like:

- Less money for war, more for music and peace (yes indeed, music is a peace-maker)
- Less money in sponsoring polluting industry, more money for environment, and reservation-policy (Alaska may never be exploited)
- International coöperation instead of unilateral domination
- The national anthem rewritten by Jim James
- ....

You got my vote!

 

[ben grimm]

Michael Moore for president!

[my_evening_jacket]

Sorry if I sound snippy in my previous post - Bush and his defenders really irk me.

As a veteran I find it extremely insulting that a man who deserted during Viet Nam is now the Commander In Chief of the US Armed forces.  Especially since Bush and most of his defenders support war(s), they just do't go and do the fighting themselves.

check out the chicken hawks and get more info on Bush's military career http://www.awolbush.com/

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I hereby declare my run for President of these Awesome States!  Or is it Altered States?  ;D

Seriously though-The faster we can rid this country of the scourge known as the Current Administration, the better.

[my_evening_jacket]

you got my vote John - and can steam engine become our national anthem?  or will Jim write a new one?

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Well, since my platform is Constitutional politics, we gotta keep the Star Spangled Banner...you know, kick it old skool...

Jim would be my Secretary of Arts and Culture...with 4 assistants (guess who?)

I think I'd put Mike M. in charge of the budget... ;) He'd get the job done!

[jacksoncooper]

Bush was not elected, he was appointed by the supreme court.

Well, last time I checked, all independent assessments of the Florida recount concluded that, given a state-wide recount (not just the selected democrat-majority counties requested by Gore and the Fla Supreme court), Bush would still have won.  But I am so tired of making that point that I am not going to fight about it

He has made a joke out of the bill of rights.

I disagree with some of the tactics used by the administration.  i.e. The detention of American citizens (Padilla) without legal council.  But that tactic has been ruled illegal by the courts.  As I see it, the system worked.

He deserted the military during a time of war and now wants to send others to die so that he and Cheney and other corporations can make billions while the poor and working class are sent to die.

Now, here's another charge I'd like to see documented.  As far as I know, Bush served in the Texas air national guard during Vietnam.  I've heard charges that one year of his enlistment cannot be accounted for, but I have yet to see any real proof that he deserted, and that it's not just a case of misplaced records.

Hey Jackson - Are you currently serving in the military?  Or are you a veteran?

I am not, but may be in the future. Though, not everyone is suited to be a soldier.  And I may be one of those people.  We'll see.  That doesn't mean I can't work to make the country better.  I see that you used the "chickenhawk" slur in another post.  It makes me sick to see people make that accusation; like serving in the military is a prerequisite to commenting on foreign policy.  I love living in America, and I keep an open mind about what's best for us and the rest of the world, for that matter.  So just because I'm defending Bush on these points, don't think that I won't criticize him on others.  But because I don't think he's the Devil, and because I don't think he's "the worst thing that happened to this country", I like to keep my debates calm and rational.  I don't doubt your devotion to this country, or your desire to see it become a safer and more prosperous place.  All I ask is the same consideration.

[lfish]

Of course he's not the devil, he's only the reincarnation of the devil....

No seriously, you're right when you say that you have to debate in all calmness and don't ideologize or see everything in black, white, good or (axis of) evil.

A second point I like to spread out here is the fact that it's not so easy for me to concur with you in these political debates , since I'm not an American but just a simple Belgian.  Nevertheless, with the knowledge I have, I can really not see what Bush have done right (by this I mean means and aims together: for instance, liberate the Iraqi's: aim good, means not good)in his four years of candidacy.  One of the most neglected items is the imprisonment of the "taliban or al qaeda members on guantanamo bay, without legal support. Nowadays it's getting more or less the attention it deserves from several courts throughout the USA, but I wouldn't be one of those guys.  Every human right, based on international standard there has been violated.

How is this possible in the land of freedom?

If there's one thing I have learned from politics, than it is the fact that every different party or every different individual has its goods and its bads, but somehow one person has more bads than goods. And I believe that such a person is now sitting in the oval office.

[my_evening_jacket]

Hey Jackson,

I don't have any issue with non veterans commenting on or even deciding foreign (or domestic) policy.  My issue is with those that support war and are not willing to fight.  That I do have a real issue with.

Dubya was able to have his dad get him a slot in the national guard despite an 18 month waiting list.  He supported the war in Viet Nam but didn't want to go and fight himself.  The while in the guard he failed to report for duty for 17 months.  This is not a case of lost records.  The records state that he failed to show up for duty.  And none of the other men that served with his unit remember he showing up for duty.  None of them.  I guess he thought that fighting for ones' country (or dying for or being maimed for ones' country) is the job of the poor and working class.

My thinking is if you support war and think that it is an honor to serve one's country then go out there in the trenches and do it yourself.  Don't say it's a good idea and an honor but let someone else do it.

I only asked about your military service because you said it is a country worth fighting for.  I was just wondering if you thought it was worth you fighting for.

I respect your opinion and don't intend to silence you.  I just want to see where you are coming from.

on a side note - 2 years into the war on terror and we are on orange alert.  So far bombing Afghanistan and then Iraq has not made us safer.

[lfish]

Waw man,

a lot of emotions and interesting thoughts are spread out here.  It's really interesting to read about your political and world opinions.

Maybe another interesting question. Now, here in Belgium, the first episode of "24" is on television, where a black person is running for president.
What are the chances that a black candidate really can be president of the USA?

I believe that for the moment this is almost impossible. And in the future? I hope it is possible.

[jacksoncooper]

I respect your opinion and don't intend to silence you.  I just want to see where you are coming from.

Right on.  I understand.  And thanks for keeping the debate civil.  I've found this to be a rare thing lately.

on a side note - 2 years into the war on terror and we are on orange alert.  So far bombing Afghanistan and then Iraq has not made us safer.

I think we are safer.  Bin Laden and his cronies are no longer roaming free with the full support of a national government.  Saddam Hussein, a self-declared enemy of our country, is no longer in power.

Given, there are still people out there working to kill us. But I think the first and most important step towards eliminating those people's ability to do so is the confrontation (not necessarily military) of the states supporting them.  And before we get into the debate about Saddam's involvement in 9-11, let me say that I don't think he was at all involved.  But I also think that he stated openly his goal of defeating the USA.  I don't think we can ignore that kind of a threat coming from a man in charge of an army and known for using some nasty weapons on people within the boarders of his country.

I don't think this is the end of the road, but I think we took the first two logical steps towards our objective of making our country safer.  And just look at what Moammar Gadhafi and Libya are doing now.  Don't tell me that he would have done the same if we continued to lean on Saddam with sanctions and containment strategies.  I expect more news like this in the future from other countries.

[jacksoncooper]

What are the chances that a black candidate really can be president of the USA?

I believe that for the moment this is almost impossible. And in the future? I hope it is possible.

I know this won't be a popular suggestion, but my dream scenario right now is to see Condi Rice run for president in 2008.  I can't think of a better person for the office, regardless of race, sex, age, height, weight or drink of choice.

I don't think it is at all impossible.  There certainly still are racists and sexists in this country, but I don't think there would be a better way of calling them on their ignorant beliefs than to nominate an African American, republican, national-security-advising woman for president.  :o

[marktwain]

I have many problems with Bush, but at the top is the policy of pre-emptive war, which I just CANNOT accept, whether or not it has made us safer.

I voted for Nader in 2000, because I didn't agree with either Gore's or Bush's platform (and frankly, I didn't see much difference between the 2).  

Out of all the candidates, I feel Kucinich best represents my views, but I have com to believe in the "anybody but Bush" campaign cry.  I think Dean is a poser and an opportunist, but I'd take him over Bush in November.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

think Dean is a poser and an opportunist, but I'd take him over Bush in November.

EXACTLY

This is the gospel I shall give unto you.  All of us, no matter how apart we are on any of the issues, we MUST have some kind of unity against the Evil Empire.  It is really that simple.  Now the question is if it can be accomplished, given the climate of things out there...