The MMJF Election Results of 2004

[jbreed]

Final Results:

Kerry/Edwards   60.00%
Nader/Camejo    20.00%
Bush/Cheney     13.33%
Willie             6.67%
 
*15 voters reporting
*2  voters undecided
*Favorable mention: Kucenich

Breakdown-Analysis:

Kerry/Edwards       60.00%

antoniostrohs                   sr Kentucky
conaway                         sr Kentucky
kymoose                         jr Kentucky
tundra                          sr Kentucky
dthomas (plus wife & daughter)  sr California
Elizanne33                      jr California
lfish (if eligible)             sr Belgium


Nader/Camejo       20.00%

Drunkre                   sr Alabama
The_Link                   sr Mass
Jbreedy                   jr Georgia


Bush/Cheney       13.33%

katkillad                   sr Ohio
DJustin                   g  NA


Willie              6.67%

havibulin                   sr Illinois


Undecided but NOT Kerry

mmjfanatic                   sr Mass
lyricjunkie                   sr NA
 
Thanks for the responses & have a healthy 2005!!

[sweatboard]

Is that Willie Nellson?

[sweatboard]

If so, HOW IN THE WORLD did he get only one vote!!!??????

[lfish]

Thx for the summary man.

Nice to see some figures.

Aren't you guys, now, in some way relieved that Kerry lost?
I am, in a certain way.  If you see the problems America is facing right now(problems which are mainly caused by Bush's administration ), it would have been very difficult for the democrats to score. This wouldn't have been a fair game to play.

Bush has now to solve the problems he started (deficit, iraq, afghanistan...)

I hope this will corrode his "popularity" and the popularity of the republicans in general.

So in 2008, I hope the democrats are alive and kicking again.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

am I glad Kerry lost?!  Are you mad?  :o

No.  The rope W is using to hang himself is the same rope we're all hanging with:  money

The deficits are being funded by other countries.  I'm not sure which part of logic and reason was abandoned to make this acceptable.

The prison at Camp X-Ray is the worst example of America at its worst.  We're "fighting for freedom" in Iraq (read:  the freedom to pump petroleum from the ground) but hold people without trial indefinitely at X-Ray, deny their rights to lawyers, etc.  If "freedom and democracy" is the goal in Iraq, then we should practice what we preach.  The idea that human beings are held like this without a load of evidence and called "enemy combatants" should be abhorrent to all Americans, whether they have been labelled terrorists or not.  We wouldn't tolerate Americans being held in foreign jails without trial or evidence, now would we?

The war continues to be a horrible mistake, costing lives and billions of dollars.  We can afford this ghastly nightmare but slash teacher salaries, eliminate programs, and cry poor mouth when it comes to domestic issues.  Bullshit.

I am not happy at all.  In fact, I'm scared and so should you.  The only hope is that they see what the opposition looks like and might think twice about their hell bent agenda to shove us into the Apocolypse.  Privatize Social Security?  Nice.

[lfish]

Yo John,

I hear ya, but don't you think that Kerry's hands would have been tied up if he was the president? So many things went already wrong before he himself would steer the wheel. For the majority of the people, wouldn't he look as a noob when he can't let disapear the deficit, when he can't stop the war in Iraq (it has been started, and now you just can't walk away by retreating the troops)?

Let the discussion begin MUhahahahahahaha

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Well, the question is:

Is it ever too late to stop these things?  

Answer:  No.

I'm not proposing walking away now, but eventually yes we should.  After all, Iraq's problems are IRAQ'S PROBLEMS.  We can't hope to occupy this country forever.  Vietnam analogy, anyone?

[SmoothOprtr]

What I am failing to understand, is what exactly did people think John Kerry was going to do so differently- at least per Iraq which seems to be the issue getting everyone wound up.

You could easily make a case the Bush's hand was forced by Clinton's inactivity.  Hussain violated the treaty agreement from the first way countless times without rebuke.  He wouldn't let inspectors in, he would let inspectors in, then they get there and he's changed his mind again...

Kerry wasn't going to end this affair and have America lose face globally- he was for the war!

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

What I am failing to understand, is what exactly did people think John Kerry was going to do so differently- at least per Iraq which seems to be the issue getting everyone wound up.

You could easily make a case the Bush's hand was forced by Clinton's inactivity.  Hussain violated the treaty agreement from the first way countless times without rebuke.  He wouldn't let inspectors in, he would let inspectors in, then they get there and he's changed his mind again...

Kerry wasn't going to end this affair and have America lose face globally- he was for the war!

Aye carumba, not again!

"forced his hand"?!  so people die because of this international political game?  do I have to bring up where those WMD's came from in the first place?  So we reverse 60 years of progress with the United Nations to satisfy our petoleum lust?  It's total bullshit to argue that WMD's are why we're there.  We are there to allow Conoco, Exxon, et al to drill for oil there unfettered by Hussein's government.  Now we wonder why "insurgents" are defending their country...what would happen if we were invaded?  

Please, stop watching Fox News and open your mind.  This is a SIMPLE issue that's been muddied by cowboy diplomacy and natural resource lust.  GREED is why we're there.  Iraq's problems are IRAQ'S problems, not ours.  Why is that so difficult to understand?

[EC]

Hey guys, be careful.  You're talking about the "Man of the Year".

(The editor got fired after that issue when he didn't catch the typo of "Man" for "Ass".)

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Hey guys, be careful.  You're talking about the "Man of the Year".

(The editor got fired after that issue when he didn't catch the typo of "Man" for "Ass".)

 ;D

Hilarious.  best. post. ever.

[The Boar]

*gag*

Must we re-tread old ground, especially this scorched earth? We've clearly enumerated our diverse political beliefs and opinions before and, I thought, had agreed to respect those diversities, as nonsensical as they may appear to some. Remember that certain individuals will find fault in any administration, and there are equal numbers who were just as horrified with the previous administration's policies and actions (as well as those of any other administration one can think of). "Why is that so difficult to understand?"

To call Iraq "a SIMPLE issue that's been muddied by cowboy diplomacy and natural resource lust" not only insults the collective intelligence of those that disagree but also displays a decidedly narrow-minded perspective. If we need to "open our minds" let's remember to practice the same advice that we preach. Remember also that Iraq wasn't the only issue in the election, and that some individuals' votes may have actually *gasp* been based on other issues.

Blame it on idiocy, conspiracy, etc., but the American people voted the way they did. It looks like we'll have to live with the results for four years. What WON'T get us anywhere is fatalism, doomsday rhetoric, or namecalling -- I should have hoped that had been made clear during the campaign season, whichever side you supported.

Let's try to re-unite instead of further divide, and hope that, whatever the situation, an optimistic spirit can be put forth to face it. This is fucking America, for crying out loud.

[havibulin]

Must we re-tread old ground, especially this scorched earth? We've clearly enumerated our diverse political beliefs and opinions before and, I thought, had agreed to respect those diversities, as nonsensical as they may appear to some. Remember that certain individuals will find fault in any administration, and there are equal numbers who were just as horrified with the previous administration's policies and actions (as well as those of any other administration one can think of). "Why is that so difficult to understand?"

i think you should read your own post.

and yes...Willie Nelson should have had more than one vote.

[The Boar]

Hmmmm, but I did.......

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

I'm sorry your intelligence is challenged by a different point of view on Iraq.  I've heard nothing but chants of "unity" from the other side while the President himself does not hear anyone who disagrees with him.

So, logic and reason are abandoned because you say so?  Or because Hannity told you to?  I won't stop, ever-not because I think I'm right, but the issues involved are bigger than you or I, and calls for "unity" (pardon me while I retch) aren't going to silence my somewhat educated position on this and other topics.  Golly, almost half the country voted for the other guy, not exactly an endorsement of the current policies, Iraq or otherwise.

I am speaking of the war, the deficits, the overall direction we're heading, whether you think I have to put up with it or not.  The election taught me nothing as I'm just one person.

And if the hamfisted approach we've taken to the Iraq issue isn't "cowboy diplomacy", then why is the world community so outraged?  Or is it that only we Americans know what is best?  

[SmoothOprtr]

I flat out agree with the boar... besides the fact that discussing Kerry v. Bush is outdated and meaningless at this point, it also been well covered on this music-site message board.  While I admire your passion and confidence in expressing that passion- you tend to simplify issues to fit your philosophy.  If a Republican wins the next election, you'll be furious again- regardless of who he is, where he's been, or what he's planning to do, as will millions of other people (same if you reverse it), as I think Boar was pointing out.  You Bush bash, but don't offer a plausible solutions.  You'd said you'd leave the war, I mean not right away, but eventually you say you would.  Sounds almost like a real politician.  I refuse to believe that the President of the United State's goal or desire is for American lives or money to perish in Iraq for no reason other than to have access to Hussain's oil.  

[The Boar]

Whew, I'm a little afraid to respond, especially as I have already called for this debate to end. But I think it is important so I'll give it a shot anyway.

I'm sorry your intelligence is challenged by a different point of view on Iraq.  I've heard nothing but chants of "unity" from the other side while the President himself does not hear anyone who disagrees with him.

I believe I said "insult" not "challenge." Nevertheless, your claims didn't challenge my intelligence as I have heard them numerous times before, from Schorr and Moore and others. Indeed, I grant such claims a measure of veracity; I certainly wouldn't put it past the Bush administration to go into Iraq because of petroleum. However, I don't think that is the only reason -- granted, the other reasons might be just as inane and self-serving, but to say Bush is only after oil seems a little far-fetched to me.

So, logic and reason are abandoned because you say so?  Or because Hannity told you to?  I won't stop, ever-not because I think I'm right, but the issues involved are bigger than you or I, and calls for "unity" (pardon me while I retch) aren't going to silence my somewhat educated position on this and other topics.  Golly, almost half the country voted for the other guy, not exactly an endorsement of the current policies, Iraq or otherwise.

Well, I don't think I said anything about abandoning logic and reason; and I certainly didn't mention Hannity whom I've never watched and never will watch. Perhaps, however, you are referring to the country's votes for GWB? As you point out, almost half the country voted for JK as well. I see 2 possible conclusions for this split:

1)Educated people like yourself voted for JK, and those who voted for GWB are either ignorant or duped.

2)The country is deeply divided not only on issues but on which issues are most important, and how to view such issues.

Now if you hold conclusion 1, then your belief in either the idiocy of half of voting America or the power of the evil Republicans to woo the wide-eyed masses is stronger than mine. My call for "unity" (which, forgive me, nauseated you so) was merely an optimistic suggestion that perhaps we should live the spirit of America and try to find a way to overcome together what are assuredly difficult situations both at home and abroad, without the vitriol that seems to characterize anything in the political arena. Maybe that was wishing for too much, you tell me.

I am speaking of the war, the deficits, the overall direction we're heading, whether you think I have to put up with it or not.  The election taught me nothing as I'm just one person.

Right, good, I agree that you are one person too. And about the things Bush is doing that you don't like? Other than what we are doing now (i.e. speaking out, debating publicly), what else can one do? Other than leaving America, I honestly don't know what else you meant as far as putting up with it or not. It seems to me if we want to stay where we are, we'll have to put up with it.

And if the hamfisted approach we've taken to the Iraq issue isn't "cowboy diplomacy", then why is the world community so outraged?  Or is it that only we Americans know what is best?  

I hope that I would never be so arrogant as to say Americans know best in anything, let alone foreign policy. Remember, I wasn't and am not defending Bush or his policies -- I am defending the intelligences of those that view the world situation in a different way. Now, this may seem like semantics, but I think there is a difference between arguing one's political opinion (which you have certainly done) and making assumptions about the persons and attributes of those that disagree with you (which I argue you have also done). It's about respect. You want to bash Bush? Fine. Just remember others will not agree, and, despite your ardent protests to the contrary, may not be as dim a bunch as you depict them.

My personal political beliefs are, I think, fairly irrelevant here, but on the whole, John, I would say I agree with you on these political issues more often than not. However, I like to fancy myself as one that respects the personal opinions of other people, and I in turn will continue to be offended and outraged when such opinions are not, in my opinion, respected.

[The Boar]

PS - This has been fun but I'm off to home so I won't be online until tomorrow morning. I'm not avoiding your  replies and potential abuse, everyone -- I'm just not around.  ;)

[lfish]

I completely agree with you Boar.
I would consider your last message as a very democratic post.

Well put!

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

yo Boar,
I apologize profusely for the tone and candor of my postings.  As you may know, I am very passionate about these issues, and posting here isn't the only thing I'm doing about our situation.  I am truly sorry for offending you, as sometimes my anger clouds my judgement about these issues.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooo, let's have a drink, a smoke, put on TTF, and discuss further.  If yer ever in Louisville, I'll apologize in person and buy several rounds in your honor.  Seriously!

I'd like to take this opportunity to call for "UNITY" here in the forum community.  I alone take responsibility for alienating others with the virulence of my tone.  I also acknowledge that this here fun place is to be about the music and the fan community we've built here together, friends, and I ask for your forgiveness in my indiscretions.

Basically, I'm calling for a group hug.  I need some love!