The news of Amy Winehouse makes me sad; even though I was not a fan. I got over 20 years clean and sober and still struggle with demons here and there and can still be a prick and hard to get along with, etc...but I am getting better at living on this planet. I still remember the 4 people who confronted me about my drug/alcohol use when I was an active addict. I remember them b/c I knew what they were saying was true and they confronted me out of Love, they had no other agenda other than trying to save my life.
If you know someone who is struggling but are afraid to speak up, you might want to consider it before it's too late. I know there are people in Winehouse's camp who may be kicking themselves today, however, there are also those who did all they could do. It can be a fine line.
There's no such thing as "tough Love"; real Love is tough enough.
Addiction can be a mother fucker.
Amy Winehouse- Some Unholy War [Belgrade 2011] HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8puKtroKOo#ws)
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
It sucks either way... I know people who don't want to get clean (it would require them acknowledging that they had a problem in the first place, and that's not always a step people want to take) and I know people who struggle with it and are in and out of rehabilitation... just crappy either way... I've definitely always felt infinitely unable to help any of them, what a feeling... and the 2 or 3 I know who have pushed through and actually overcome it only did so because their mind was strong enough to overcome it, and they weren't going to let it win.
But it's always, always a good idea to support friends and family as much as you can, even if you can only do so from the distance that they hold you.
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
Ok, well, you have gone from "most addicts" to "some people"; that's quite a leap from "most" to "some".
And being an addict doesn't mean you are "weak". I know some addicts who have been through some things that an average person couldn't handle.
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
And being an addict doesn't mean you are "weak". I know some addicts who have been through some things that an average person couldn't handle.
Of course. They can go through many things that the average people can't go through. They do this by dulling the pain of dealing with real problems with drugs and booze.
It's weakness. Everybody is given the knowledge that drugs are bad and will ruin their lives one day. Some don't care and some don't listen. Fuck em, they make other people lives much worse.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:47 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
And being an addict doesn't mean you are "weak". I know some addicts who have been through some things that an average person couldn't handle.
Of course. They can go through many things that the average people can't go through. They do this by dulling the pain of dealing with real problems with drugs and booze.
It's weakness. Everybody is given the knowledge that drugs are bad and will ruin their lives one day. Some don't care and some don't listen. Fuck em, they make other people lives much worse.
is it weakness or desire? I think desire has more to do with it than somebody being weak. the proverbial 'chase the dragon'. unless you have ever been related to or friends with an addict you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about. sure some people are a waste of life but most of the people I know who are into hard drugs are intelligent, charismatic people. the word "loser" is the last thing that comes to mind. they're definitely broke but they're still the same people I've always known growing up, only now they have worse habits.
I don't hear you giving shit to people who HAVE to have their morning coffee or a cigarette every 30minutes. I'm sure you do not truly believe every binge drinking friend you have is an addict, but they are. so I guess my question is, who is this loser you're describing? a real person or an imaginary one designed by your experience with the D.A.R.E. program?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K2drfNIMsMo/TUnAUNQv7tI/AAAAAAAABgQ/wz8jL5Oz7o0/s1600/referee-calling-time_%257Ebxp44828.jpg)
No need to argue about using here, Tracy you started a good thread about supporting people who are in the struggle. And congratulations on 20 years clean!! Let's just break it down to the basics:
1. Using beyond moderation is bad. Most of us know this because most of us have experienced it either through ourselves or through people that we know.
2. We can't always help people who will not help themselves. This does not in any way mean to stop trying, and at the very least we need not ever stop showing our love or that we care.
3. Not all users are bad people. And the people who do things that we consider bad are usually very lost on their path. That by no means excuses people for stealing or hurting others (I've been robbed from and jumped before myself and have some first-hand experience with "bad" people) But I feel capable of reflecting back on those circumstances and realizing just how lost those people are (or were). And it only frees yourself if you can forgive people who do you wrong.
And finally 4. I don't think any of us can say what it is that gets to the people that we know or hear about. Because I think it varies from person to person to person to person. But everything everybody here has mentioned very likely plays a role. Weakness, desire, dulling of pains, etc... and maybe for the people that we know we are able to pick those qualities out in them, but I suppose what I mean is that we really oughtn't generalize all users into any one group.
OK, I think everything I just said everybody already knows.....
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 02:14 PM
Quote from: Sticky Icky Green Stuff on Jul 24, 2011, 02:01 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:47 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
And being an addict doesn't mean you are "weak". I know some addicts who have been through some things that an average person couldn't handle.
Of course. They can go through many things that the average people can't go through. They do this by dulling the pain of dealing with real problems with drugs and booze.
It's weakness. Everybody is given the knowledge that drugs are bad and will ruin their lives one day. Some don't care and some don't listen. Fuck em, they make other people lives much worse.
is it weakness or desire? I think desire has more to do with it than somebody being weak. the proverbial 'chase the dragon'. unless you have ever been related to or friends with an addict you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about. sure some people are a waste of life but most of the people I know who are into hard drugs are intelligent, charismatic people. the word "loser" is the last thing that comes to mind. they're definitely broke but they're still the same people I've always known growing up, only now they have worse habits.
I don't hear you giving shit to people who HAVE to have their morning coffee or a cigarette every 30minutes. I'm sure you do not truly believe every binge drinking friend you have is an addict, but they are. so I guess my question is, who is this loser you're describing? a real person or an imaginary one designed by your experience with the D.A.R.E. program?
I personally don't think coffee is that extreme on the scale of addiction as hard drugs. I hate coffee and cigarettes(unless I'm on vacation).
Never called anyone a loser. Have many friends that are addicts and they are all horrible fathers to their children. Alot of people can drink socially , for the people that can't and go beyond they are what I call refer to as "weak". :beer:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/01/alcohol.harm/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/01/alcohol.harm/index.html)
"A look at how heroin, cocaine and other drugs affect the bodyHeroin and cocaine were ranked most dangerous, followed by barbiturates and street methadone. Alcohol was the fifth-most harmful drug and tobacco the ninth most harmful. Cannabis came in 11th, and near the bottom of the list was Ecstasy."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-tobacco-make-top-list-risky-drugs/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-tobacco-make-top-list-risky-drugs/)
more:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm (http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm)
Quote from: woodnymph on Jul 24, 2011, 02:16 PM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K2drfNIMsMo/TUnAUNQv7tI/AAAAAAAABgQ/wz8jL5Oz7o0/s1600/referee-calling-time_%257Ebxp44828.jpg)
No need to argue about using here, Tracy you started a good thread about supporting people who are in the struggle. And congratulations on 20 years clean!!
right on.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 02:14 PM
Quote from: Sticky Icky Green Stuff on Jul 24, 2011, 02:01 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:47 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 01:23 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober. You have to accept them for who they are and just live your own life.
Most addicts out there don't want to get sober? I would disagree with that statement 100%. I'd say that many do, but don't know how or realize how hard it is to stay clean.
Some people love getting high more than anything. Even more than life itself.
There's only so much you can do. Don't feel guilty about about not going far and beyond for someone that gives up. It's just weak people out there, that's all.
And being an addict doesn't mean you are "weak". I know some addicts who have been through some things that an average person couldn't handle.
Of course. They can go through many things that the average people can't go through. They do this by dulling the pain of dealing with real problems with drugs and booze.
It's weakness. Everybody is given the knowledge that drugs are bad and will ruin their lives one day. Some don't care and some don't listen. Fuck em, they make other people lives much worse.
is it weakness or desire? I think desire has more to do with it than somebody being weak. the proverbial 'chase the dragon'. unless you have ever been related to or friends with an addict you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about. sure some people are a waste of life but most of the people I know who are into hard drugs are intelligent, charismatic people. the word "loser" is the last thing that comes to mind. they're definitely broke but they're still the same people I've always known growing up, only now they have worse habits.
I don't hear you giving shit to people who HAVE to have their morning coffee or a cigarette every 30minutes. I'm sure you do not truly believe every binge drinking friend you have is an addict, but they are. so I guess my question is, who is this loser you're describing? a real person or an imaginary one designed by your experience with the D.A.R.E. program?
I personally don't think coffee is that extreme on the scale of addiction as hard drugs. I hate coffee and cigarettes(unless I'm on vacation).
Never called anyone a loser. Have many friends that are addicts and they are all horrible fathers to their children. Alot of people can drink socially , for the people that can't and go beyond they are what I call refer to as "weak". :beer:
I think sticky's right. You are describing the cliche heroine/meth/crack/whatever addict that you saw when DARE came to your school. If you think that's what all addicted people are, I have the feeling you've never met anyone addicted to anything. don't believe everything you see on TV!
Thanks Tracy for this thread. It is kind of disturbing to see some of the judging that is going on here, but I guess it represents the general population's view of addiction. As someone who has been working in the field of addiction for 15 years, and married to someone in recovery, all I hope is that people can become more enlightened.
I take issue particularly with the word weakness, it's such a copout, and makes me cringe.
Please remember folks, that in addition to psychological/social/economical/genetic predispiosition/environmental issues having much interplay here, there is also the concept of the biochemistry of drug abuse and dependence.
Please people, educate yourselves, and have compassion.
Quote from: tdb810 on Jul 24, 2011, 08:35 PM
Please remember folks, that in addition to psychological/social/economical/genetic predispiosition/environmental issues having much interplay here, there is also the concept of the biochemistry of drug abuse and dependence.
It's still weakness. Some people are mentally stronger than others and can overcome anything.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:20 PM
Quote from: tdb810 on Jul 24, 2011, 08:35 PM
Please remember folks, that in addition to psychological/social/economical/genetic predispiosition/environmental issues having much interplay here, there is also the concept of the biochemistry of drug abuse and dependence.
It's still weakness. Some people are mentally stronger than others and can overcome anything.
Great; we get your point. You feel addiction is a mental weakness. Got it. Having worked in the addiction field professionally and going through it personally, I couldn't disagree with you more. However, I am not going to sway your opinion and you're not going to sway mine.
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
My hope for this thread lies in my original comment:
If you know someone who is struggling but are afraid to speak up, you might want to consider it before it's too late. I know there are people in Winehouse's camp who may be kicking themselves today, however, there are also those who did all they could do. It can be a fine line.
There's no such thing as "tough Love"; real Love is tough enough.
Addiction can be a mother fucker. peace
(http://cdn.elev8.com/files/2010/10/sage-bundle.jpg)
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
It's not really about Fuck Em. Just more of "BE REALISTIC"!
Many of these people know what they are doing to themselves and others around them. Death isn't a big deal to addicts. I can say the same thing for my friend that speeds all the time in his car. One day he's gonna kill himself and take someone with him. I can't change that but just accept it.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
Death isn't a big deal to addicts.
:o
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
It's not really about Fuck Em. Just more of "BE REALISTIC"!
Many of these people know what they are doing to themselves and others around them. Death isn't a big deal to addicts. I can say the same thing for my friend that speeds all the time in his car. One day he's gonna kill himself and take someone with him. I can't change that but just accept it.
These two statements suggest a weak mind, alright. If I think someone I care about is hurting themselves AND might hurt others, I'll do my damnest to help them.
Tracy, sorry your original thoughts have been derailed, TWICE! I've decided I hate Pinback, whatever the fuck that is.
Quote from: johnnYYac on Jul 25, 2011, 12:29 AM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
It's not really about Fuck Em. Just more of "BE REALISTIC"!
Many of these people know what they are doing to themselves and others around them. Death isn't a big deal to addicts. I can say the same thing for my friend that speeds all the time in his car. One day he's gonna kill himself and take someone with him. I can't change that but just accept it.
These two statements suggest a weak mind, alright. If I think someone I care about is hurting themselves AND might hurt others, I'll do my damnest to help them.
Tracy, sorry your original thoughts have been derailed, TWICE! I've decided I hate Pinback, whatever the fuck that is.
That's cool. Maybe I should hide the keys from my friend and flatten his tires. Maybe even call the Police on him when I know he's speeding in his car.
...or I can do the opposite and pay all of his speeding tickets and encourage him to keep it real.
Instead of looking in from the outside and give good advice I should just intervene one way or another.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
Put down that cheeseburger, it'll kill you slowly but surely ;)
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 25, 2011, 01:12 AM
Quote from: johnnYYac on Jul 25, 2011, 12:29 AM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
It's not really about Fuck Em. Just more of "BE REALISTIC"!
Many of these people know what they are doing to themselves and others around them. Death isn't a big deal to addicts. I can say the same thing for my friend that speeds all the time in his car. One day he's gonna kill himself and take someone with him. I can't change that but just accept it.
These two statements suggest a weak mind, alright. If I think someone I care about is hurting themselves AND might hurt others, I'll do my damnest to help them.
Tracy, sorry your original thoughts have been derailed, TWICE! I've decided I hate Pinback, whatever the fuck that is.
Quote
That's cool. Maybe I should hide the keys from my friend and flatten his tires. Maybe even call the Police on him when I know he's speeding in his car.
...or I can do the opposite and pay all of his speeding tickets and encourage him to keep it real.
Instead of looking in from the outside and give good advice I should just intervene one way or another.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
Put down that cheeseburger, it'll kill you slowly but surely ;)
Looking in from the outside and giving good advice is intervening. Sometimes there is nothing you can do and you kind of have to step back and let go, even if you don't really want to. Sometimes you don't. I get your opinion, but with all due respect, its pretty much bullshit. What if your mother was a meth addict? Or your brother had 7 dui's and is still getting wasted every night? Im pretty sure you never had loved ones die or throw their lives away because of addiction, but i might be wrong. I have. I hope I'm not wrong, because if that's your opinion, it'd make you a pretty shitty person, and I'm going to assume that youre not.
Those people are hard to change been dealing with it since I was a little boy. My Moms been in and out of rehab since I could remember! Its not easy!
Quote from: TommyBurnz on Jul 25, 2011, 01:53 AM
Those people are hard to change been dealing with it since I was a little boy. My Moms been in and out of rehab since I could remember! Its not easy!
Super hard to change.
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 25, 2011, 01:12 AM
Quote from: johnnYYac on Jul 25, 2011, 12:29 AM
Quote from: Non Sin Diego Breaux on Jul 24, 2011, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Tracy 2112 on Jul 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
Your take on people with a weak mind who suffer from addiction is "Fuck em". Got it. Don't need to hear it again, I get it. Thanks for the input.
It's not really about Fuck Em. Just more of "BE REALISTIC"!
Many of these people know what they are doing to themselves and others around them. Death isn't a big deal to addicts. I can say the same thing for my friend that speeds all the time in his car. One day he's gonna kill himself and take someone with him. I can't change that but just accept it.
These two statements suggest a weak mind, alright. If I think someone I care about is hurting themselves AND might hurt others, I'll do my damnest to help them.
Tracy, sorry your original thoughts have been derailed, TWICE! I've decided I hate Pinback, whatever the fuck that is.
That's cool. Maybe I should hide the keys from my friend and flatten his tires. Maybe even call the Police on him when I know he's speeding in his car.
...or I can do the opposite and pay all of his speeding tickets and encourage him to keep it real.
Instead of looking in from the outside and give good advice I should just intervene one way or another.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
I'll do my damnest to help them.
Put down that cheeseburger, it'll kill you slowly but surely ;)
Alright, the one time I get ornery and I overreacted.
Non Sin, since we're talking addiction and you mentioned
speed, I though you meant
METH! My apologies for the misunderstanding and the insult to Pinback.
That said, I think we should respect the spirit of this thread. If you see little hope in helping those suffering addiction, does that opinion belong in THIS thread? Reread the first post...
Summer in Abaddon is a solid album.
Drugs are bad.
Interesting take on the Amy Winehouse tragedy by Russell Brand, of all people.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman)
Duff McKagan's take on it
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2011/07/nobody_chooses_addiction_not_e.php (http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2011/07/nobody_chooses_addiction_not_e.php)
Quote from: ALady on Jul 25, 2011, 04:32 PM
Interesting take on the Amy Winehouse tragedy by Russell Brand, of all people.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman)
Id be amazed if Brand wrote the whole thing, but that was a great read, and fitting with the thread overall.
this San Diago Bro guy needs to find a better thread to schmuck with
Congrats, Tracy!
I meant to post a different article that referred to the same author's book earlier this week, but got side-tracked. This article popped up on my radar today. Apologies for the length:
http://caivn.org/article/2011/07/27/neuroscientist-drug-addiction-health-problem-not-moral-failing (http://caivn.org/article/2011/07/27/neuroscientist-drug-addiction-health-problem-not-moral-failing)
NEUROSCIENTIST: DRUG ADDICTION IS A HEALTH PROBLEM, NOT A MORAL FAILING
by W. E. Messamore
Wed, Jul 27th 2011
In a recent interview with NPR, David Linden, professor of neuroscience at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and the chief editor of the Journal of Neurophysiology, discussed the contents of his new book, entitled The Compass of Pleasure, and spent a fair amount of time explaining the science behind addiction, which he says is a health problem, not a moral failing.
During the interview, Linden explained that addictions to certain foods, behaviors, and drugs are a measurable, physiological phenomenon that occurs in the brain. It's also heritable-- it can be inherited through the genes from one's parents: "There are variants in genes that turn down the function of dopamine signaling within the pleasure circuit." Why is this important? Dopamine signaling is how the brain rewards the body for engaging in behaviors that-- in moderation-- are not only healthy, but necessary for survival, things like eating food, exercising, and having sex. The human machine is "wired" to pursue pleasure, and when its pleasure pathways are working properly, this leads to healthy, functional behavior. But people with blunted dopamine pathways can't experience the neurological rewards of healthy activities the same way others do. The result is pleasure-seeking behavior that takes healthy activities to the extreme, as in the case of overeating or sexual addiction, or even the use of drugs to fire up the brain's reward pathways. Ironically, Linden says, addicts don't enjoy the object of their addictions as much as non-addicts:
"In order to get to that same set point of pleasure that others would get to easily -- maybe with two drinks at the bar and a laugh with friends -- [an addict would] need six drinks at the bar to get the same thing."
Interestingly, it is because addicts enjoy their addictions less, due to blunted dopamine systems, that they need them more, and with a desperate drive to achieve a normal dopamine response, they engage in risky, excessive, and unhealthy behaviors. This, Linden argues, is an illness, a problem with a person's health, not a moral failing in need of criminal correction:
"Any one of us could be an addict at any time. Addiction is not fundamentally a moral failing -- it's not a disease of weak-willed losers. When you look at the biology, the only model of addiction that makes sense is a disease-based model, and the only attitude towards addicts that makes sense is one of compassion."
When pressed about the ramifications of the neuroscience behind addiction for public policy, particularly toward drug addiction, Linden asserts that: "Simple possession should never be dealt with predominately in the penal system. It is a medical phenomenon." He goes on to compare it to heart disease. If someone has heart disease, they have certain responsibilities to take care of themselves, and if they don't, "it's not society's problem, it is your own darn fault." Likewise, Linden says that someone who has a problem with their brain has certain responsibilities to minimize the impact and take good care of themselves, just like someone who has a problem with their heart, and that neither should be treated like criminals or incarcerated for their health problems.
It's something we've been hearing more and more from politicians like New Mexico's former Governor Gary Johnson, and Philadelphia's DA Williams: the most compassionate model, and the model with the most empirically-validated success is treating drug addiction as a health issue, not a criminal justice issue.
Stevie Ray Vaughan Performs "Tightrope" on "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" - 1990 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGLZPvDcWWs#noexternalembed) this song is all about defeating and facing your demons. I've faced so many in my life and struggle every day. It can be a really lonely and low feeling sometimes. I've lost many good friends to addictions. If any of you ever need a shoulder to lean on I'm always here....
Quote from: TheBigChicken on Jul 28, 2011, 04:02 PM
Stevie Ray Vaughan Performs "Tightrope" on "The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson" - 1990 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGLZPvDcWWs#noexternalembed) this song is all about defeating and facing your demons. I've faced so many in my life and struggle every day. It can be a really lonely and low feeling sometimes. I've lost many good friends to addictions. If any of you ever need a shoulder to lean on I'm always here....
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: