Have any of you all watched this? 22 years late, I know, but its on Netflix. I can't stop watching it.
Also, I have some questions if any of you all really know it well. Mainly about some of the mythos /philosophy/religious undertones associated with it.
My favorite tv show. Watched it on swedish television the first time it aired. Love Audrey Horne.
I just started watching it a year ago. I'm not done with the whole series yet, but I have gotten to the episode where they reveal the killer. Great show.
It is a fantastic show. One of the best I´ve ever seen.
In another thread I posted awhile back I was looking for some help in choosing a topic for a paper that is for a eastern religion/eastern philosophy class. After watching about 15 episodes of this show, and realizing how much philosophical and religious undertones there are in the show, I decided to write my term paper on the eastern influence on the show. I was wondering if anyone who has seen it all, perhaps multiple times, can think of any specific examples of religious/philosophical undertones in the show. I'm in the beginning-ish of season 2 still, but the giants/owls/and dreams Cooper is running into in season 2 are certainly carrying taoist undertones. Not surprisingly, its impossible to find any scholarly article on Twin Peaks.
I've never watched the show, but there's these:
http://www.sheepproductions.com/tps/typical/symbols.htm
http://ericrschiller.com/tag/twin-peaks/
http://www.twinpeaks.org/index.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=PiCZcaozHn0C&pg=PT114&lpg=PT114&dq=twin+peaks+eastern+religion&source=bl&ots=yPGEL804pg&sig=tb0gq9TQI7G2Y4N3USryWpBY2Lw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FKuyUKeMJfCB0QG_oYHIAg&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCTgK
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ewind, i binge-viewed season 1 about 5 years ago. LOVE IT. i have a real soft spot for Agent Cooper and his appreciation on damn good coffee, natch. :wink:
i don't have any observations or theories related to your research, though. alas!
I've watched it all the way through several times, but its been some years since I've done so, so my memory of specifics may be spotty (that and the state of mind in which I prefered to view it :grin:). But as for the spiritual stuff in there, which i agree its rife with, I'm thinking about Cooper's ability to intuit stuff about the natural world being kinda native American mysticism, his mind-over-matter methods being kind eastern mysticism and his journey into darkness being very much a Jungian/Joseph Campbell mythologic theme of the hero's journey: having to pass through the shadow world to come out the other side more pure and stronger. Or the idea of having to "eat the shadow" so that it doesn't become a monster that eats you.
I think a major theme running through all of David Lynch's work is that the 50's white picket fence/Ozzie and Harriet surface of American culture was very dangerous in that it utterly ignored the dark side of life, leaving the culture way out of balance in the light/dark yin yang thing. Jungians would say if you ignore the shadow or pretend it doesn't exist, it gets bigger and stronger and comes out in more chaotic and uncontrollable ways, like say, people who get so damaged that they become serial killers or whatever dark and ugly human behavior you can think of. Integrating the dark with the light, both on a cultural and individual level, makes a person or a society healthier and more balanced because the dark is given space to exist so it doesn;t get expressed in such destructive ways, kinda like the mock-warfare in which no one really got hurt that tribes in New Guinea would use to solidify tribal unity.
Sorry for the ramble, hope its helpful.
PS There are scholarly articles on Twin Peaks, I've read them. it was over 20 years ago, so they might be hard to find, but I found some really deep and intellectually impressive ones in literary film review journals. If I can find a reference, I'll shoot it to ya, e-wind.
Nice topic for your project, you could really go to town on this one. I'd be interested to hear how its going if you feel like sharing.
PS Wait until you get to the prequel/sequel (time is not linear in Lynch's visionary world) of Fire Walk With Me. You'll get some answers and a lot more questions and you'll see Cooper go through the shadow world on his personal hero's journey. Its fucking brilliant and a total mindfuck, at least it was to me.
e wind, try this bibliography http://www.thecityofabsurdity.com/papers/detective70.html (http://www.thecityofabsurdity.com/papers/detective70.html)
It appears this issue of Literature/Film Quarterly was devoted to Twin Peaks: Literature/Film Quarterly 21.4 (1993)
I think I was remembering both Fire Walk With Me and the last episode of season 2. So my last statement refers to both of those together. Journey into The Black Lodge!
And I also remembered an episode in which Cooper takes the local police force out for some target practice. Doesn't he go off on a little spiritual monologue?
thanks for responses, guys.
The class that I'm in is Eastern Mysticism and so the assignment is based on eastern mystecism to the western world. the outline is "Your research will be in the area of the relationship of eastern mysticism to the west, or some area that we did not cover in class. For example, you might research how Taoist mystical practices improve sports performance or help agoraphobic children be calmer in nature. You might research the influence of Hindu mysticism on Yoga in the United States. You might research the influence or compare/contrast Upanishadic mysticism on Christianity."
My professor (one of my favorites in college. this is my 3rd religion class with him) actualy said that outlining the Eastern Mysticism undertones in Twin Peaks would be "one hell of a paper", after I talked to him about how good of a show it is.
The problem I'm having is that there are so many undertones that, being from the US, its hard for me to pick out the Eastern ones and not automatically assume everything has Christian undertones. I have a couple weeks to write it, so I'm not stressing (yet). Its just hard to get started.
I know that this is outside of the average viewers thoughts while they're being entertained, and I would gladly like to discuss this amazing show. Tonight im watching the episode in which Lauras killer is revealed, though i think i know because of my research.
Thanks Shug and Yac for some sources
I watched the series for a second time earlier this year, so if you have any questions I might be be able to help. I'm not an expert on eastern philosophy however. Enjoy the rest of the series! Unfortunately things fall apart a bit after they reveal Laura's killer, something they never planned on doing. It does improve toward the end though.
I don't know how much you know about David Lynch, but he does practice transcendental meditation, so any articles/interviews on that might interest you.
Quote from: HansAndreas on Nov 25, 2012, 04:23 PM
My favorite tv show. Watched it on swedish television the first time it aired. Love Audrey Horne.
:thumbsup:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb0qtdlS9P1r9qzylo1_1280.jpg)
Yeah, she's a babe
Just found out who the killer really was... er, kind of. I knew it was Bob, but just found out who he was inhabiting. Since theres 13 more epsiodes left, which is almost half, they should've ended season 2 with Leland dying in the jail cell and made season 3 the hunt for bob. wouldve made it seem more dramatic, imo. It's weird to me to have the biggest question of the series revealed halfway through the show.
Yeah, season 2 is generally considered weaker and less consistent than season 1 (too many guest writers, too many potential storylines they left as dead ends and probably not enough focus of purpose?), but again the identity of the killer is really just the surface appeal of the show. The deep appeal of the show, to me, is the philosophical underpinings.
Its a cool mix when the philosophy is interspersed with the bizarre and the ridiculous.
I think Cooper's superior abilities and his supreme confidence and calmness have a lot to do with his Taoist "going with the flow" and being in tune with the spirit world. And he's not afraid to confront and reconcile the dark and the light, even though he is a kind of Lancelot, a pure, chivalrous and uncorruptable champion of light and good.
Stick with season 2, like Man Named Truth said, it improves towards the end of the season and the ending is fantastic, IMO.
I decides that rather than writing the paper on this broad as subject, I'm going to write it specifically on Cooper and how his dreams/visions make him a taoist "hero" type figure. I'm basing it almost entirely on Zhuangzi's argument that knowledge is impossible. It's an argument with five reasons while we cannot be truly knowledgeable in our world, with one of the five being "the possibility of dreaming." He basically says that there is no way to prove weather we are dreaming or experiencing "reality".
I found that Film Quarterly all about Twin Peaks in my schools library. That film quarterly basically published a bunch of articles from a book called Full of Secrets: Twin Peaks (i think is the title). Its pretty damn cool.
As for the show: After reading a bunch of stuff, while trying to stop myself from spoiling anything, I have decided that the first dream cooper has in episode 3 is probably the defining scene of that show... its the first time that shit gets strange, and its really bizzarre.
And my favorite scene overall is when Leland kills Maddie. I can never tell when things are going to take a sudden turn to the darkest place possible in that show.
Also, I already think I need to watch it again to fully appreciate it.
Quote from: Shug on Nov 28, 2012, 12:50 PM
Yeah, season 2 is generally considered weaker and less consistent than season 1 (too many guest writers, too many potential storylines they left as dead ends and probably not enough focus of purpose?), but again the identity of the killer is really just the surface appeal of the show. The deep appeal of the show, to me, is the philosophical underpinings.
Its a cool mix when the philosophy is interspersed with the bizarre and the ridiculous.
I think Cooper's superior abilities and his supreme confidence and calmness have a lot to do with his Taoist "going with the flow" and being in tune with the spirit world. And he's not afraid to confront and reconcile the dark and the light, even though he is a kind of Lancelot, a pure, chivalrous and uncorruptable champion of light and good.
Stick with season 2, like Man Named Truth said, it improves towards the end of the season and the ending is fantastic, IMO.
The thing about Cooper though, even though he seems great at his job, he always fails at the most important times - like when the giant warns him about the beauty contest with the hand gesturing he does at the end of season 2. Cooper ignores the warning. I tried to describe that without any spoilers.
E-wind - why it might seem weird why they revealed the killer when they did - In the special features David Lynch explains they they never intended to reveal the killer, that the network pushed for it. I think Lynch describes hiding who the killer was as a golden egg or something like that. Some of the subplots do seem to go nowhere, especially the one where James leaves town. It starts to get better when Windom Earle enters the show.
Jim James is a big fan of the show, this was posted on the forum awhile ago. Here it is in case anyone missed it.
http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/my_morning_jackets_jim_james_on_twin_peaks/ (http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/my_morning_jackets_jim_james_on_twin_peaks/)
(http://www.undertheradarmag.com/uploads/article_images/MYMORNINGJACKET_SHOT_03-007_byCrackerfarm_1.jpg)
aw shit i'm definitely gonna find a way to quote him. my professor knows how much I love MMJ and Pearl Jam so he'll think its funny
Quote from: ManNamedTruth on Nov 28, 2012, 02:29 PM
The thing about Cooper though, even though he seems great at his job, he always fails at the most important times - like when the giant warns him about the beauty contest with the hand gesturing he does at the end of season 2. Cooper ignores the warning. I tried to describe that without any spoilers.
Good point, he does fail a lot, I never thought of that before. I may be clutching at straws here a little bit, but again, I look at the balanced dichotomies, like the dark/light and maybe it applies to Cooper's success/failure. The failures are part of his destiny or part of his path as much as the successes, leading to him being a more complete, total person? Brings up an interesting question, does Cooper overall fail or succeed? I don't wanna go into more details so as to not spoil the ending for e wind.
Cool discussion!
PS and leave it to Jim James to talk about what is great about Twin Peaks with so much eloquence. I'm fucking impressed, JJ is a magician, there is no doubt about it. I LOVE this quote about how it feels to make great music. As a non-musician, I've always suspected it felt that way when you are really on, but I've never heard any of my musical heroes express it quite this way:
"Or the feeling one is fortunate enough to feel when playing music or making art with true spirits of kindred soul, to really rip it wide open and tear a hole down the middle of the cosmos and feel God weep with joy that you are using what he and the spirits gave you the almighty gift of life for..."
Perhaps one fails in knowledge, but succeeds in soul. It can be said that we know nothing, but cannot forget love. Because despite the knowledge base, experiences, and opinions of every human being...they all still operate according to their relationship with love. Even death and superstition cannot transcend it. So while Cooper may fail at these so-called 'important tasks', he maintains his relationship to the higher ideal.
This is true of Faust as well. Though he failed continuously in his dealings with Mephistopheles, he was saved by the grace of God, for having always sought the truth.
It's okay to spoil anything, at this point. I just figured out that Coopers doppleganger replaces him in the end. I'm okay with knowing that, because finishing this paper is more important. What I wish I wouldn't have read, though hope the final scene really is is that Coop sees BOB as his reflection and starts banging his head against a mirror. That in itself could say something about the success of Cooper. Even when he's inhabited by pure evil he's finding a way in which release himself from it. Though, maybe BOB is using his body in order to have him die.
PS. if im way off, just roll with it so im still surprised by the ending :grin:
Spoiler alert for a much less awesome show - Dexter, season 4 - following:
This happened at the end of season 4 of Dexter to me. I thought that Rita died at the end, and a friend said that I was wrong after I was so sure. They said whoever said she died as fucking with me. I believed it, watched it, and thus still got to be surprised.
My Netflix subscription ended before I could see the end. So I make it up in my head. Even if I did know, I wouldn't know, y'know?
I have a tendency to do that with everything. I read 90% of a book, and never read the ending. Or do 90% of a painting, and never finish it. I like to think of the 10% as God's share. But perhaps according to another thread, it's Gods' share.
I know people talk of it as Cooper's doppleganger, but I've always preferred to think of it as his (symbolic) good and his bad sides, two halves of himself, struggling against one another. How it comes out in the end is something I've never been sure how to interpret. The Black Lodge is the place where he goes down to confront his dark side and see if he can come out the other side complete. Joseph Campbell would have had a field day with Twin Peaks. He died a couple years before it came out.
Quote from: MamaKel on Nov 28, 2012, 03:29 PM
Perhaps one fails in knowledge, but succeeds in soul. It can be said that we know nothing, but cannot forget love. Because despite the knowledge base, experiences, and opinions of every human being...they all still operate according to their relationship with love. Even death and superstition cannot transcend it. So while Cooper may fail at these so-called 'important tasks', he maintains his relationship to the higher ideal.
This is true of Faust as well. Though he failed continuously in his dealings with Mephistopheles, he was saved by the grace of God, for having always sought the truth.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: e_wind on Nov 28, 2012, 03:59 PM
It's okay to spoil anything, at this point. I just figured out that Coopers doppleganger replaces him in the end. I'm okay with knowing that, because finishing this paper is more important. What I wish I wouldn't have read, though hope the final scene really is is that Coop sees BOB as his reflection and starts banging his head against a mirror. That in itself could say something about the success of Cooper. Even when he's inhabited by pure evil he's finding a way in which release himself from it. Though, maybe BOB is using his body in order to have him die.
PS. if im way off, just roll with it so im still surprised by the ending :grin:
Spoiler alert for a much less awesome show - Dexter, season 4 - following:
This happened at the end of season 4 of Dexter to me. I thought that Rita died at the end, and a friend said that I was wrong after I was so sure. They said whoever said she died as fucking with me. I believed it, watched it, and thus still got to be surprised.
You should've finished watching the series before doing so much research!
Quote from: ManNamedTruth on Nov 28, 2012, 04:57 PM
Quote from: e_wind on Nov 28, 2012, 03:59 PM
It's okay to spoil anything, at this point. I just figured out that Coopers doppleganger replaces him in the end. I'm okay with knowing that, because finishing this paper is more important. What I wish I wouldn't have read, though hope the final scene really is is that Coop sees BOB as his reflection and starts banging his head against a mirror. That in itself could say something about the success of Cooper. Even when he's inhabited by pure evil he's finding a way in which release himself from it. Though, maybe BOB is using his body in order to have him die.
PS. if im way off, just roll with it so im still surprised by the ending :grin:
Spoiler alert for a much less awesome show - Dexter, season 4 - following:
This happened at the end of season 4 of Dexter to me. I thought that Rita died at the end, and a friend said that I was wrong after I was so sure. They said whoever said she died as fucking with me. I believed it, watched it, and thus still got to be surprised.
You should've finished watching the series before doing so much research!
my paper isn't technically due til December `12th, but if i turn it in Monday then Im completely done with my semester 10 days early. I'm determined.
Quote from: ManNamedTruth on Nov 28, 2012, 02:31 PM
Jim James is a big fan of the show, this was posted on the forum awhile ago. Here it is in case anyone missed it.
http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/my_morning_jackets_jim_james_on_twin_peaks/ (http://www.undertheradarmag.com/interviews/my_morning_jackets_jim_james_on_twin_peaks/)
(http://www.undertheradarmag.com/uploads/article_images/MYMORNINGJACKET_SHOT_03-007_byCrackerfarm_1.jpg)
Whoa whoa whoa folks...
I cry everytime I read this. No joke. I weep like a child when I read his description of magic. It reminds me of my favorite passage of writing of all time from a Jack Kerouac novel. And his writing...about good and evil being real, and how all of us are somewhere in the middle, which is the place to be...
BUT THE PART!!! THE KEY PART! Your mission on Earth:
GOD'S LOVE TO DELIVER!
It's like he knew all along...he knew all of it...before a word was spoken or written.
"And then I found it...or did it find me?"
Yes. As I said in another thread...God's Love To Deliver is the key to all of it. The Grace. The Redemption. The triumph over Gods' Love...to the Kingdom of God's Love.
I think I just found that thread of magic that ripped open the cosmos...funny thing is, it was the thread I started sewing with...
http://kerouacsquest.wordpress.com/works/tristessa/ (http://kerouacsquest.wordpress.com/works/tristessa/)
This is when Jack goes to Mexico City and falls in love with a Mexican prostitute named Tristessa, who seems to hold within her the infinite inexpressible mysteries of the universe...known by way of her endless suffering...
All the words written on this page bare a remarkable resemblance to what Jim says about Twin Peaks.
Coincidence is God incognito...Though the reasons are hidden, the beauty is revealed
Maybe the lesson...is that we have to continue to follow our intuition regardless of the outcome...and accept that even when our fate falls victim to disastrous consequences, that if we accept this as some an opportunity for growth, as opposed to a setback, that we will inevitably get where we are supposed to be. And perhaps we all have both beings inside of us...Bob and Cooper...but it is the choices we make that determine our place beyond the karmic cycle of life and death.
So this is my thesis statement for the paper I finished, which I believe is one of the best papers I've written in my 4 years in college.
"In this essay, I will examine the TV drama Twin Peaks through the lens of Zhuangzi's epistemological skepticism. The main character's (Dale Cooper) dream sequences throughout the seasons provide evidence that not only can dreams be equivalent in terms of epistemological validity, i.e. that dreams and reality can provide the same kinds of knowledge, but that both Zhuangzi and Twin Peaks also offer an argument that dreams and reality can interact and effect one another."
Zhuangzi's argument that "knowledge isn't real", which implies epistemological knowledge btw, is a five part argument. The fifth part that I talk about the most is "The possibility of dreaming" in which he states that there is no mark that can confirm that one is dreaming or in reality, and therefore you cannot reasonably argue that knowledge gained from dreams isn't "real".
I don't neccesarily agree with that, but I took that stand for the paper and the paper is damn good. I'm so hyped on it that Im thinking about taking a Sr. Honors Thesis class and writting my thesis about Twin Peaks mythos.
Nice work, e-wind! Rock On!!!
One of my favorite shows of all time. I think its time I watch it all the way through again.
Quote from: ManNamedTruth on Nov 26, 2012, 03:53 PM
Quote from: HansAndreas on Nov 25, 2012, 04:23 PM
My favorite tv show. Watched it on swedish television the first time it aired. Love Audrey Horne.
:thumbsup:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb0qtdlS9P1r9qzylo1_1280.jpg)
Yes please. Sorry i couldn't help myself.
(http://rlim.home.xs4all.nl/madchenamick/mad_n2.jpg)
Sherilyn Fenn YUMMY !!!!
Yeah, Madchen is hot too. And so was Peggy Lipton (Norma Jennings). Not a big Lara Flynn Boyle fan however. Joan Chen would've been hot if it wasn't for that god-awful slicked-back haircut.
Young Peggy Lipton:
(http://www.eastportlandblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/peggylipton1.jpg)
on a side note, look at the tumblr i found, some great pics, gifs here:
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sheryl-lee?before=1348281104 (http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sheryl-lee?before=1348281104)
this is great too:
http://imgfave.com/search/peaking (http://imgfave.com/search/peaking)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_majf9yhmTN1qdc84zo1_400.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9a7yhmtDy1rntmico1_500.gif)
Mrs ralph and I did the Twin Peaks pilgrimage on our US trip in October. Ate cherry pie and the RR Diner, went to the Great Northern & the waterfall, found the road where the town sign was, walked across Ronette's bridge etc, etc. It was so exciting to see all the places that were used in the show.
We watched Twin Peaks in it first aired on TV and have watched it dozens of times since then. We must have looked like the biggest fan geeks when we got the the diner! Best show on TV ever...
Quote from: ManNamedTruth on Dec 03, 2012, 05:33 PM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_majf9yhmTN1qdc84zo1_400.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9a7yhmtDy1rntmico1_500.gif)
:grin: :grin: :grin:
I had the pleasure/torturous experienc of watching the show when it was broadcast back in the day (torture=waiting a whole week to see the next one!). And I was a big enough fan to rate receiving this for Christmas a couple years ago:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc24b3127ccef19eb778f48100000030O00AZuG7Jk2Ys2wPbz4C/cC)
"MMMMmmm, good coffee"
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2cc24b3127ccef19eaae2b48d00000030O00AZuG7Jk2Ys2wPbz4C/cC)
I loved everything but the finale and I'm still pissed at CBS for doing Lynch the way they did on this show--I think it could've lasted much longer!
I'm not into posting dubious links, but I can't resist sharing this item that came across my Twitter feed today. My fingers are officially crossed.
http://www.highsnobiety.com/2013/01/02/david-lynch-is-said-to-have-met-with-nbc-to-discuss-reviving-twin-peaks/ (http://www.highsnobiety.com/2013/01/02/david-lynch-is-said-to-have-met-with-nbc-to-discuss-reviving-twin-peaks/)
To top it off, Jim and Dave closed out their radio show tonight with Julee Cruise. Coincidence?
Very interesting, but won't all of the original cast look kinda old to reprise their roles? And new actors for the same characters doesn't sound that great either. I'm a fan, so I'd watch no matter what if this happens.
I just got Fire Walk With Me for Christmas, waiting for a time to really get into it, I haven't seen it in years and I'm pretty excited about it! I'll probably get that box set of Twin Peaks, too. I know once I start, I'll wanna go all the way through again.
Quote from: Shug on Jan 03, 2013, 10:32 AM
Very interesting, but won't all of the original cast look kinda old to reprise their roles? And new actors for the same characters doesn't sound that great either. I'm a fan, so I'd watch no matter what if this happens.
I just got Fire Walk With Me for Christmas, waiting for a time to really get into it, I haven't seen it in years and I'm pretty excited about it! I'll probably get that box set of Twin Peaks, too. I know once I start, I'll wanna go all the way through again.
When you click on the link about how the rumor began, you'll see they mention season 3 will take place with it being the same amount of time since season 2 ended, with Dale's evil doppleganger locked up in prison this whole time and the real Dale trapped in the black lodge.
Yeah, I saw that, I thought that meant the same amount of "show" time that had passed between seasons one and two, which was basically straight through. Are they saying the show will pick up 20 years later in Twin Peaks time? That would make more sense for using the same actors, but might be weird for the storyline or maybe it would be cool. In Lynch we trust, no?
That source image is from 4chan. I would be VERY hesitant to believe anything from that site. Hope it is true though.
Sorry, y'all. I didn't mean to junk up the board. I'm still haunted by the end of that show, and just want to see Dale Cooper get out of the black lodge.
Quote from: Shug on Jan 03, 2013, 10:53 AM
Yeah, I saw that, I thought that meant the same amount of "show" time that had passed between seasons one and two, which was basically straight through. Are they saying the show will pick up 20 years later in Twin Peaks time? That would make more sense for using the same actors, but might be weird for the storyline or maybe it would be cool. In Lynch we trust, no?
That's what I took from it, and the only way they could do it that would make sense. If you remember some of the scenes from the Black Lodge, they showed an older Dale Cooper at some point. So if the backstory of Dale being trapped there for a long time is already in place, then it could work.