Political statement of the day:

[SiOuxTribe]

[primushead]

Is that including or excluding lincoln?

[tomEisenbraun]

Lincoln appears to be exempt from said fucking.

[ratsprayer]

Lincoln appears to exempt from said fucking.

hes probably the worst one there, he shouldnt be exempt.  i like the native american title for this landmark....  'hill of the four thieves'

[marktwain]

hes probably the worst one there, he shouldnt be exempt.  

Why?

[ratsprayer]

Why?

umm well he suspended habeaus corpus, for starters.  also, if you think the civil war was fought because of slavery, i have some of saddams's and also irans' 'nookular' weapons to sell you.  keep in mind, wars are never fought for the reason we're told.  just a neutral question here, but are you one of the people who think he's one of the greatest presidents ever?

[EC]

that's a fairly large statement without any explanation - give us  your thoughts, sioux tribe.

[ycartrob]

that's a fairly large statement without any explanation - give us  your thoughts, sioux tribe.

I took my first trip to South Dakota and The Black Hills (Mt Rushmore) about 4 years ago. It's the trip where I discovered At Dawn. The wide open plains and that wide open sound...I can't wait to get back there soon.

The beauty, quietness and stillness of that part of the country was breath taking. I could feel the spirituality on our hikes. I'm not talking about Jesus, I'm talking about the American Indian. The vibe of American expansionism and the genocide of the American Indian was also prevelant, although not as strong (for me).

Not sure if that's where Sioux Tribe is coming from, but that's what I feel.

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

um, Lincoln saved the day.  Might be the only Republican president I respect.  What should have Lincoln done differently?  The Civil War wasn't directly about slavery per se, but it certainly was a burning issue that lead to the secession of the states.  Should we be two countries instead of one?  I'm not so sure that would have been a good idea....

and SiouxTribe...please expound on your statement.  I'm curious.

[ycartrob]

I feel like this thread might get going...

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

:-/

[marktwain]

umm well he suspended habeaus corpus, for starters.  also, if you think the civil war was fought because of slavery, i have some of saddams's and also irans' 'nookular' weapons to sell you.  keep in mind, wars are never fought for the reason we're told.  just a neutral question here, but are you one of the people who think he's one of the greatest presidents ever?

Okay.  For starters, know that I am pretty liberal, and not opposed to revisionist history.  So I'm not rallying around the sacred memory of a president or anything.  And as far as "one of the greatest presidents ever" -  Well, it's not hard to be "one of the greatest" out of that group, now is it?

That said, Lincoln opposed slavery and ended it.  He restored the union, and died because of it.

Say what you will about him, but I still don't understand why he is "one of the worst".  I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really am curious.

[Jon T.]

Posted by: ycartrob Posted on: Today at 11:04am
I feel like this thread might get going...

Yes, yes... This should get interesting. ;D

[SiOuxTribe]

Just plain and simple, I am Native American, the badlands are my family's holy land.  The U.S. practically eliminated us and our culture for their own.  They then decide to go to our HOLY land and plant four of their leaders faces right there to laugh upon us.
Most people you might ask, "what do you think of Mount Rushmore?"   they may respond "why thats a wonderful monument respresenting the greatness of our country, its liberty, its freedom and respecting our forefathers!"

Bullshit.  They can all go to hell.
And yes I agree with Ycartrob about the plains, its a very powerful place, I felt much more in touch with myself and the energy around me.  The fresh air, the scenery, the prarie dogs! Its good stuff!

[ycartrob]

Okay.  For starters, know that I am pretty liberal, and not opposed to revisionist history.  So I'm not rallying around the sacred memory of a president or anything.  And as far as "one of the greatest presidents ever" -  Well, it's not hard to be "one of the greatest" out of that group, now is it?

That said, Lincoln opposed slavery and ended it.  He restored the union, and died because of it.

Say what you will about him, but I still don't understand why he is "one of the worst".  I'm not trying to start an argument, but I really am curious.

Didn't Lincoln free the slaves so he could pick up the black vote? I think back then it was still hovering around 5% for the republicans, like today.

[Jon T.]

Didn't Lincoln free the slaves so he could pick up the black vote? I think back then it was still hovering around 5% for the republicans, like today.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[wellfleet]

i have nothing but the utmost respect for the native americans. in canada, they're called First Nations and for good reason (even though they're trated just as poorly.)
i know ratsprayer is going to jump on me for this, but i can't believe that the same people who mouth off about palestinian displacement and how they should get their land back (and i don't disagree) don't just die of shame that they are living on land stolen from the native americans. how many of those support giving native americans back their homeland? how many americans who talk about how immigration (legal and otherwise) is ruining the country remember that if their ancestors came on a boat at any point in history, then they are immigrants, too?

not too far from where i live now is a state park:
The Trail of Tears refers to the forced relocation of the Cherokee Native American tribe to the Western United States in 1838, which resulted in the deaths of an estimated 4,000 Cherokee Indians. In the Cherokee language, the event is called Nunna daul Isunyi—"the Trail Where We Cried."

[SiOuxTribe]

Wellfleet you get 214002030400 bonus points.

[SiOuxTribe]

[ali]

who is that? i'm assuming its an early president?