are they peaking?

[slimkim]

I have been listening the boys for about 4 years and really dig on them. I will admit i have gone a bit too much lately as this is all that i listen to but i don't care cuz i enjoy it...they speak to me. the music, the lyrics, the passion...

anyway, here is my question to you all... do you think the band is currently peaking musically together as a band, making music and playing it? also, do you think jim's voice is at his best right now?

if not, what year do you think they were making the best music and playing it together and when do you think jim's voice was the most pure ?

i am still trying to decide as i listen to each year, it's hard to say... they have clearly progressed as a band, but now that i am entrenched in them, you can go back and make claim to some of the performances e.g. 12/17/00 the way that he sings, wow! no pun intended... i mean that is good stuff. also 12.14.00 musically the show was amazing. the flow and transition of songs. wow.

and then there is performances such as the recent show from amsterdam 5.16.08. the stream is posted on the site. i mean that sheet is pure.

i mean, can it get any better?

see you all in nyc... i just scored some tix by the grace of craig and his list... as well as charlottesville...

                                                                                                                                                                                                   

I am in love with this soul, it's a meaning that i understand...

         

[Love Dogg]

I don't think they are peaking at all.  I think they are progessing with each day, with each show they play.  I think this year will take a lot out of them.  I think they are giving it their all and that they've missed us as bad as we've missed them.

They still seem to really enjoy being around each other and that, to me says that they will remain feeding off of each other creatively.  And until the day where they each need their own tour bus, I think they will click.

I think this is the best they've sounded in their career...but peak?...nah.  ;)

[slimkim]

well thanks for the official "unofficial" welcome...

i ask this question to the board becuz it seems that this is a very knowledgeable and well informed group of folks that have been with the band since its beginning. i find it fascinating to hear from people that experience growth. you know it is always fun to talk with 80 year old folks that remember your city back then and can tell you what the growth was like with all kinds of long winded stories...

anyway, i tend to agree with you that there are many variables including my own personal tastes. However, it is inevitable for a band, athlete, entertainer, etc to plateau and decline in quality. it is just fact of life. so there must be a peak at some point. well if you are only so lucky. they are alot that never peak. Now i will say some are lucky enough to re-experience a new peak after many years.

but it was really the point of the question... i wanted to poll from you all taking into account your personal opinions and tastes then vocal quality, chemistry and comraderie of the band, music making, musicianship, lyrics, the overall sound that they produce when playing it live or studio, etc... and when that was or maybe that you don't think it has happened yet...

and why?  so i can hear from others what they hear and go listen to that particular year or show. and maybe gain a better appreciation or at least a different one. it helps me grow as a listener.

so what do you think?

[Angry Ewok]

are they peaking?

No.

[EC]

shit.

slimking, i erased my stupid post because it was stupid.

but i still say welcome. :)

[Mr. T.]

I don't know about the band, but this thing is:

[BH]

Oh shit, don't make me break out the dramatic hamster.

Oh, slimkim, welcome!   I don't think they are peaking as a band.  Although, it is hard to believe Jim's voice could get any better than it was in the early years.  It's just natural.

[ycartrob]

they're not, but I am!

[EC]

they're not, but I am!

no way.
you've only just begun.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

[rob]

  I don't think they are peaking as a band.  Although, it is hard to believe Jim's voice could get any better than it was in the early years.  It's just natural.

Oh come on, he's not even 30!  Most singers reach their vocal peak in their mid-40s. Unless some of the screaming he's done has taken a permanent toll, but I doubt it. He's just choosing to use his voice differently sometimes, depending on the song.

Now, whether or not he's peaked with his lyric writing might be somewhat more debatable. To me, some of the lyrics on the new album sort of seem like Jim possibly wasn't in the most inspired frame of mind at all times, but hey whadda I know......it might just be a temporary setback. Wasn't this the first album that all the writing wasn't finished prior to going in the studio? It kinda shows.

[The DARK]

I don't think so. This album and their newfound fame has given them a chance to really explore what they can and can't do. That's what the Evil Urges era is all about. This is their Unforgettable Fire. Not their best, but just what they needed.

Their next album is going to be an absolute classic. I can feel it in my bones.

[BH]

Now, whether or not he's peaked with his lyric writing might be somewhat more debatable. To me, some of the lyrics on the new album sort of seem like Jim possibly wasn't in the most inspired frame of mind at all times, but hey whadda I know......it might just be a temporary setback. Wasn't this the first album that all the writing wasn't finished prior to going in the studio? It kinda shows.

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more, I think the new lyrics (as well as the music itself) are the most brave things anyone has done in music in a long time.  I love them.  And for now, I will just leave it at that.

As far as his voice, I know what your saying, I think it is better now in a lot of ways, I just sometimes hear some of the old stuff and you can just feel the youth and power.  I don't really know how to explain it.

[sweatboard]

Yeah, I think this album is a Classic.  I think of "Evil Urges" as the "At Dawn" to "Z's" "TN Fire".......and I LOVE all four so I'm not sure if anyone is really going to get what I'm saying...... In other words I think The TN Fire and Z are awesome collections of songs and an amazing atmosphere was created with both those records, but "At Dawn" and "Evil Urges" are just masterpiece type ALBUMS!!!  There is a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts on those records, a perfect expression that could only be expressed by the exact songs and the sequence that they appear on the record, not to mention the art work.  :)  If the TN Fire kind of "took place" on a lonesome highway where you were about to fall asleep at the wheel with some deep thoughts driving you into some oncoming traffic, At Dawn was the next morning waking up where you realized you actually pulled over on the side of the road and the sun has just blasted your face with a kiss that said......."Hey Asshole, it's a brand new day and your still here.....now what are you going to do?"  It's both an awakening and a question at the same time.   "Z" was like you drank a six pack smoked up and were about to fall asleep but were still really feeling concerned about a bunch of things, and "Evil Urges" is like you just woke up a step closer to the answer, but you just realized the answer was something that you already knew......It's warm!!!

 
The next record is already something I can't wait for.  The peak is always a bit out of reach.

[tomEisenbraun]

Yeah, I think this album is a Classic.  I think of "Evil Urges" as the "At Dawn" to "Z's" "TN Fire".......and I LOVE all four so I'm not sure if anyone is really going to get what I'm saying...... In other words I think The TN Fire and Z are awesome collections of songs and an amazing atmosphere was created with both those records, but "At Dawn" and "Evil Urges" are just masterpiece type ALBUMS!!!  There is a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts on those records, a perfect expression that could only be expressed by the exact songs and the sequence that they appear on the record, not to mention the art work.  :)  If the TN Fire kind of "took place" on a lonesome highway where you were about to fall asleep at the wheel with some deep thoughts driving you into some oncoming traffic, At Dawn was the next morning waking up where you realized you actually pulled over on the side of the road and the sun has just blasted your face with a kiss that said......."Hey Asshole, it's a brand new day and your still here.....now what are you going to do?"  It's both an awakening and a question at the same time.   "Z" was like you drank a six pack smoked up and were about to fall asleep but were still really feeling concerned about a bunch of things, and "Evil Urges" is like you just woke up a step closer to the answer, but you just realized the answer was something that you already knew......It's warm!!!

 
The next record is already something I can't wait for.  The peak is always a bit out of reach.

Perfectly stated, man.

There's definitely a continuity here. Are you close to ready to start that thread about the themes running through Evil Urges, or do we need to wait another week and a half?

I'm thinking that Evil Urges is something intensely different lyrically. Z had all these crazy lines throughout, some pretty cryptic-ish stuff (Thinking "Wordless Chorus" and "Lay Low") -- cont'd..

[tomEisenbraun]

and that stuff made 45 minutes seem sprawling and odd and beautiful, and at the same time very weird. I'd contest that Z was a damn weird album.

Evil Urges has all the ability to be a very weird album, but that's not the point. The point is that answer that's getting closer. I think I'm starting to see that theme running through it, and I really can't wait to lay it down and discuss with you guys when everybody's got their hands on the album.

And EC--how have I never heard the Carpenters before?

[Goat Boy]

Now, whether or not he's peaked with his lyric writing might be somewhat more debatable. To me, some of the lyrics on the new album sort of seem like Jim possibly wasn't in the most inspired frame of mind at all times, but hey whadda I know......it might just be a temporary setback. Wasn't this the first album that all the writing wasn't finished prior to going in the studio? It kinda shows.

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more, I think the new lyrics (as well as the music itself) are the most brave things anyone has done in music in a long time.  I love them.  And for now, I will just leave it at that.

As far as his voice, I know what your saying, I think it is better now in a lot of ways, I just sometimes hear some of the old stuff and you can just feel the youth and power.  I don't really know how to explain it.

I agree with Evil Robber.  Lyrically he does seem to be on autopliot on some of these songs.  Two Halves is the most obvious offendor.  An incredibly lame opening line - 'remember when you were 17, you going crazy, you know what I mean' - and to be honest it doesn't get much better over the next 3 minutes of twee lyrical cliches bolted clumsily together.  It screams B-side.  

I think the new lyrics (as well as the music itself) are the most brave things anyone has done in music in a long time.

This part I don't get.  At all.  Surely I'm not the only one?  You really think this record is the bravest thing anybody has done in music for a long time?   :-?  

[slimkim]

hey all

thanks for posts. as i said it is nice to hear other folks opinions and thoughts about the music and band.

just as a response to the last few posts about the songwriting. i have always admired the band's lyrics and music. does jim write all the music and lyrics or is it a combined effort? I would think carl is a big part of the music... anyway.

i am not a musician but i have to hand it to new musicians these days that write truly great original music. I mean, as a musician, don't you think it would be so difficult to come up with good original music and lyrics. they must block out all other music to create but i guess that's what separates the good from the so-so and so-so from the bad.

there aren't too many bands out there today who make good music that can continue to produce sound records and songs. i think wilco is a solid band that continues to impress and progress as a band, musically and lyrically. Coldplay has managed to do it as well. i hear their latest is a step out of their comfort zone, so we will see. but it is tough with all the expectations set forth from the fans and record companies as well as the bands themselves.

rem did for years, but as soon as bill berry left... it just wasn't the same. i did like some of the albums after he left but it wasn't rem. i am not heavy into pearl jam but they were on it but then i feel decided to tell everyone to fuck off and do their own thing, which is fine, but it didn't make me buy their records.

and then there is U2. continues to amaze thru all these years with new sounds and great meaningful lyrics.

anyway, i think the boys are to something special. i like the new songs lyrically as well as musically. and what makes it so special is how they will play these songs live. jim manages to put out various renditions of their songs that really keep it fresh.

[EC]

And EC--how have I never heard the Carpenters before?

ummm, maybe because you're a wee babe from a diff generation than me? ;)  go listen to librarian again.  the carpenters make me feel like goo, and i remember very clearly when karen died, and learning about anorexia.  i remember reading the article in people over and over.

i really have a rough time understanding the need for this thread.  i can't make an opinion stick on an hourly basis, let alone feel like i have any sense of what a band is aiming for - all i can tell is how music makes me feel, and i trust that feeling because i try to trust my feelings.  i see your connections, brian, between tf/z and ad/eu - i definitely feel the wholistic quality on this new record, and i think that makes me want to pee my pantz with joy asldkfjsal;dfj

but peak?  what's peaking?  isn't a voice just a voice on that particular day?  it has ups and downs.  one song comes out one way one day, and one song comes out one way another day.  you might enjoy some more or some less, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on what the artist is doing when they're making ze tings.  again, i wrote this in a previous post that i deleted because it was overdosed with stupid aggrandizing on my part, but i see things in terms of waves - if we're talking about people who do a lot of thinking about what they're creating, there's no peaking going to happen.  they might be in higher periods of creativity/inspiration/whatever at different times, but a peak is a human construct and is purely subjective.

i also kind of hate talking about music this way.  seriously.  all it does is make people feel good/bad about how much they know about something.  it means nothing.  talking about music (i don't know somebody else said it better than me - frank zappa, maybe?)  

i can say this:  evil urges feels like a whole experience, and i like listening to it from start to finish (and that goes for most records, unless it doesn't feel like they made an effort to create a whole experience).  i feel a lot of emotions from listening to it, and get senses of longing, sweetness, frustration, love, joy, you name it, it's all in there.  it feels very thick to me.  there are seemingly many different f/x on j's voice on the different songs.  when it is over, i feel like there is hope.

and how can we label this brave or not brave?  i don't know what's difficult for these people, thereby procuring bravery.  i know that you can sense stuff like that - i remember hearing don dante for the first time and losing water from my eyes because i had an emotional response that seemed to connect with what was being delivered, but you can't really know that, and what's the point in trying?    

those are MY feelings based on my personal filters that live through the outside world and my body and my brain.  

sorry, i don't mean to sabotage this thread.  i feel, with stuff like this as well as general analysis on things like books, poems, artwork, etc. - it's pointless, and it's more about the person trying to make the claim than it is about the piece that they're referring to, or more IMPORTANTLY how it makes them FEEL.  

those are my two pennies for the day.  

[BH]

This part I don't get.  At all.  Surely I'm not the only one?  You really think this record is the bravest thing anybody has done in music for a long time?   :-?  

Yes I do.   I think we all believe, including the band, that this album was going to be the most anticipated from the band ever.  "On the verge of a break thru" I hear over and over again.  I think most bands would have played it kind of safe at this point in their career.

But instead, Jim's writes lyrics about Faith, Religion, Evolution, Unconventional Relationships and a New World Order.   He's discussing love and human interaction under a new light and challenging us to become better people (IMO).  These seem to be topics that most musicians (in today's age) seem to shy away from. This fact, as well as all of the new sounds and musical genres that they are exploring is what led me to make that statement.  

I think it was very brave and I would expect no less from the greatest band that ever roamed this earth. :)  

[Love Dogg]

well thanks for the official "unofficial" welcome...

Sorry, Slim.  Forgive my manners...or lack thereof.  Welcome.