God help us...

[MMJ_fanatic]

I sir first of all do not view this as a debate, these are my opinions, I reserve my right to state them as I respect yours.  
Lets go back in way back machine to 2001.
We had a congress controled by Republicans. And a republican president.
Vote totals for the resolution  
house 296-133
congress 77-23
The resolution
The Resolution required President Bush's diplomatic efforts at the UN Security Council to "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions." It authorized the United States to use military force to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

Lets not forget Irag was split into parallels with a no fly zone. In a box so to speak.  Afghanistan is in full blown chaos.
Some questions for ya.

Was Irag a threat to our national security ?   Based on the fact that they have been a fertile ground for terrorist training and held close ties to terrorist leader bound and determined to destroy the US, YES!  ANd let's not forget that the beloved CLinton "administration" held out the same intelligence on Iraq.

Did We find all the weapons of mass distruction ? or even a finite trace ?  We found the aluminum tubes used in assembling nuclear warheads and biological compounds as well--a fact well downplayed by mainstream media (of course) not too mention that Hussien  himself constantly pumped out propaganda about his terrifying weapons capability extremely convincingly.  Plus the government there spouted non stop anti-U.S. rhetoric.  PLUS he gassed the HELL out of the Kurds to the North,  how long should I go on?  Maybe we should sit back and wait for L.A. or New York to go up in a mushroom cloud.  If we can be pivtotal in setting up a frinedly democratic government in Iraq we will have a 2nd strong ally in a very tempestuous are of the world.

Was our pre-war  intelligence accurate ?  Why don't you ask Bill Clinton?

Did we have a plan for success ?  Yeah we took down a horrible mass murdering dictator and his twisted sons in record time--thus lifting a huge veil of fear from the Iraqi people (you may remember the huge celebration by the residents of Bagdad when the statue fell).

Did we have a post war exit plan ?  I believe we did but it has necessarily been revised due to the terrorist insurgent morons who are afraid to let women have an equal voice in Sharia law based Muslim civilzations and have a inbred , backwardss need to control by force and indiscriminate violence.

If you were a child in Irag how would you view America ?  I would join the Iraqi military as soon as possible so I could help chase out the foreigners who are bringing chaos withe their insurgent techniques

Are we breeding more terrorism and hatred than we had pre-war ?  Guess what?  It has been there for years and will always be there, but we have a driving need to corral it away from us by confronting it where it starts.

If you were traveling abroad would you be proud to call yourself an American or would you tell them you were Canadian ?  I would call myself aht I am and let them feel however they want--maybe thay could do without all the American dollars helping them out...

This was definitlely a slam fucking dunk was it not ?  Based on the fact that insurgent and sectarian violence has dirupted wht could have been a smooth transition in governing style--not a slam dunk, but the ball is circling the rim.

Maybe our congress and house should of asked more questions before beating the drums of war, Instead of putting there tails between there legs and saying yes KING GEORGE there's that hyperbole again!     , whatever you want.  
If you want to continue to support our Pres be my guest.  Your not the only one i'm sure.  His approval ratings are  in the low 30's.  I must admit i'm glad to see him say he made mistakes, makes him look a  little more human.
We NEED to win now or we lose all credibilty. He started this shit storm, he better fucking fix it or they WILL  be walking across the border and fucking wreaking havoc.
It will make Isreal look like the land of OZ   hyperbole! (oops that is opinion, sorry).  His track record speaks for itself. Better go out and buy that assualt rifle before he amends our constitutional rights.It might come in handy.
In 2002 when the our soldiers returned home a photographer was questioned for  publishing photos of a row of caskets. Why was he castigated by the white house. Because Bush thinks were idiots thats why.War is not all about fireflies & fairytales as he would let you believe. His war is about oil, revenge and no bid contracts.
I know war is not easy and you must overcome and adapt to all  adversity.  Bush's problem is he has a one track mind and is not open to a change of strategy. It took a change in both houses to get him to change his path. If you don't carry the party line than get the fuck out. That kind of philosophy reminds me of a certain dictator.
With Bush and Cheney and there VAST  military experience you would tend to think they would not put our Soldiers in harms way if it wasn't a TRUE threat to national security.
I do support and sympathize with our troops. I want my friends home. And they want to come home, trust me.  3 fucking tours come on. For what ?
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED  ?  This quote applies to getting the twisted fuck Saddam the hell out of power but liberals can't help but latch onto it to point out that we're still there.

Lastly I have a question (Yes or No please) for you:  Do you wish for the U.S. to lose in it's endeavor, to help the Iraqi people throw of years of dark ages oppression and establish a beneficient government, or do you wish to see us lose?

[ycartrob]

Course I already understood that hate for Fox news was alive and well--the liberal pack of wolves can't stand that they've been blasted in the ratings by this little voice in the wilderness which mandates both sides--conservative and liberal--are heard in a balanced fashion.  (Tracy--no need to try to cut down Fox again--I already know where you stand)

Odd how you say Fox is "Fair and Balanced" but you paint people as liberals if they hate Fox news. That's a contradiction. If it's so fair and balanced then why can't conservatives hate it? Wake up.

I slam Fox news so I am automatically a liberal? Is that why I voted for Nader in 2000 and would have voted for Bush over Gore (had Nader not been around)?. Is that why I am pro military, b/c I am a liberal? I have no problem with the NRA, so that makes me a liberal? Thanks for painting me into a corner b/c I don't like Fox news.

Think, please. Don't let the 2 parties lead you to their truth.

I can actually formulate my own opinions without a political affiliation, thanks. I vote on principle, not parties, and I am certainly not down with big news being entertainment, be it pro life or anti gun. I don't like salesmen with cliches like Fair and Balanced. It's a cliche that means nothing. You need to understand that.

And in Nashville, they'll mention briefly (30 seconds or usually less) when a home soldier is killed. And that's for all 3 major TV stations. They don't get the wall to wall coverage that some of the networks are giving Anna Nicole. And that was my original truth. Our soldiers are not treated like the heroes that we say they are. It's all talk.

I suggest you visit a state veterans home and tell me how great we treat our heroes. I worked at a veterans home and the governemt has forgotten about these heroes (except for food, clothing, and shelter). Our listen to wives of soldiers killed who got their medical coverage cut and then hung out to dry. It happens all around.
But that's for a different post.

Good luck.

[Taterbug]

Lastly I have a question (Yes or No please) for you:  Do you wish for the U.S. to lose in it's endeavor, to help the Iraqi people throw of years of dark ages oppression and establish a beneficient government, or do you wish to see us lose?  NO, YES and NO.
                                                                                               
Clinton and Bush had the same intel ?
I do not claim do be republican or democrat.  I am an American.
I am very thankful for your support and time you have given back to our country.
I don't have all the answers. Is time and patience all that is needed to win ?
Whats your plan Stan ? How do we help people who can't put religeous differences behind them ? I don't believe we should be the referee in this fight, sadaam is dead.
Time to go find Osama. Or are we as a nation starting to forget who the real villian was who attacked us on SEPT 11.

[MMJ_fanatic]

Course I already understood that hate for Fox news was alive and well--the liberal pack of wolves can't stand that they've been blasted in the ratings by this little voice in the wilderness which mandates both sides--conservative and liberal--are heard in a balanced fashion.  (Tracy--no need to try to cut down Fox again--I already know where you stand)

Odd how you say Fox is "Fair and Balanced" but you paint people as liberals if they hate Fox news. That's a contradiction. If it's so fair and balanced then why can't conservatives hate it? Wake up.

My dear Tracy I apologize for my frantic typing--a key word was left out of my post which you quoted and that is MEDIA.  It was meant to read:  "the liberal media pack of wolves..."
But to expand on your point it is true that a vast majority of liberal hate Fox news because it breaks down the coverage provided by the other outlets which follow lockstep with the liberal bastions of media like The New York Times or the LA Times.  That doesn't mean there are plenty of conservatives who can't stand Fox news too, as a matter of fact they write e-mails into the station calling coverage too liberal!  P.S.--I have voted for Nader too in the past, I believe that was the beginning of my alienation from the Dems and the start of my admiration for conservative principles.

[MMJ_fanatic]

Clinton and Bush had the same intel ?

Yes--the Clinton administraion stated Hussein had weapons which could be used in nasty ways against us and recognized him as a threat.  I still don't understand why Bi Laden wasn't corraled while Bubba was in office.

[primushead]

I hate to help out the no fun police, but the 'to soon' thing is wrong.

It's "too soon".  You bunch of idiots.  Have a nice day.




;)

[ycartrob]

ggg, like the badge, I'll have to use it.

MMJF, I am a little hyper-sensitive when it comes to being labled a "liberal". I work with many on the far left and I sometimes I have to defend George Bush b/c of theirhatred for the Republican party (and when I say hate, I mean it). I don't support Bush, but I will defend the reality that he is not a racist and it's not his fault that the levees in New Orleans failed and it's really not his duty to rush to New Orleans, post Katrina, and protect the city. Katrina response was a cluster fuck from top to bottom, liberals to conservatives. Iraq, on the other hand...

Anyways, thanks for clearing up your statement. We're probably a lot more alike than we are different.

[primushead]

Thanks, Tracy.

I've just finished badging myself.  That doesn't sound good...

[.Walt]

when you're right, you're right. it is too soon.
where did you find a picture of that badge? that was funny.

[primushead]

I just did a google search for grammar police, and it turned up.

I was so happy!  It was exactly what I was looking for.  My post couldn't have done it without the badge. 8-)

[.Walt]

I just did a google search for grammar police, and it turned up.

I was so happy!  It was exactly what I was looking for.  My post couldn't have done it without the badge. 8-)

the badge did make the post.  ;D