Let's change the Music Industry!

[tomEisenbraun]

Hey guys!

I know we're a pretty passionate forum here, especially about music. Not only that, but I know a good deal of us here are more involved than your average Joe--there's quite a few of us who write reviews, record music, have bands, listen passionately, blog a hell of a lot--everybody's got their own thing. And hell, even if you don't do anything in particular, a lot of us still have some really incredible ideas about the music industry.

And by incredible, I mean about how it needs to change.

I think our recent episode with the leak here is testament to just that: The industry isn't working like it should.

We can forget all the moral and ethical aspects of that explosion for the moment and think a bit about why this whole business happened--what's going on here? All sorts of stuff come out of that, and there's a whole lot of room for discussion stemming from even just that situation.

So let's discuss. Let's make it civil, and let's work together on figuring out how in the world we can start making things right in the world of big-box, Clear-Channel, mediocre-at-best music industry practices.

My friend is working on creating a great medium for this sort of discussion. It's over here: http://halfstack.lefora.com/forum/

It's in very very early stages, which is exactly why I'd love for you guys to come join up if you've got ideas or things to say--it'll give you the chance to really have an impact and be a beginning member of a board meant to last a while and serve as a soundboard across the nation. We're working on getting all kinds of people involved here, from independent producers, to fans, to industry heavyweights if at all possible. It's pretty ambitious, but I think change deserves ambition, otherwise it never happens.

[MMJ_fanatic]

Here's my 2 pennies:  stop the pre-release crap dead.  Let the critics and magazines get the music the same time as the fans.  Shut down all digital online sharing sites.  iTunes and Napster should be preview only with the option the buy.  Abandon cd burner technology--if you want it ya buy it.  Bring back the midnight madness release date sales to build consumer hunger for the much anticipated releases.  Up and comers can still peddle their material through mysapce and home pages.  Tighten up the industry and the $ will come.

[corey]

Abandon cd burner technology--if you want it ya buy it.

Doesn't make much sense. That totally screws folks that want to trade live shows or back stuff up from their computer.

[megalicious]

lif you hate clear channel, listen to local and independently-owned radio stations!
like mine.
:)

[brkndwnbus]

Abandon cd burner technology--if you want it ya buy it.

Doesn't make much sense. That totally screws folks that want to trade live shows or back stuff up from their computer.

yeah, I'd be totally against that. I enjoy making mix cds and I do backup a lot of my stuff on cds because my ipod has screwed up more than once and that saved me.

[The DARK]

lif you hate clear channel, listen to local and independently-owned radio stations!
like mine.
:)

We've lost just about all of ours to Clear Channel.  >:(

Move to Charleston and spread the love!  ;)

[Angry Ewok]

I'll agree 100% with revoking the press' advance copy privileges. Some folks out there put out an excellent buzz with their reviews, but there are some repeat offenders out there who are basically just getting "free stuff" because they work for a magazine. Some blog-class music critic is more than likely the one responsible for this album leaking X months early, anyway. It's just SWAG to them, afterall.

I like the idea of midnight sales.

I like the idea of offering exclusives, but I don't like having to buy the same album three times for three little exclusives (extra song, shot glass, t-shirt, etc). If the fan club official store offered more those little goodies, that'd be really sweet and I wouldn't feel screwed.

[The DARK]

I agree also about killing the pre-release. If you're large enough, the buzz will come through the internet and pre-release hype.

[MMJ_fanatic]

OK I'll grant that dumping cd burner technology may have been slightly "Over the Top" (to reference the Sly thread).  ****RANT ALERT****Hot button issue for sure one which I have come to understand the artist and industry side of more deeply since I've been working in an industry so deeply entrenched in patent battles.  Nobody wants their property stolen and I view music as property of those who've wracked their brains and huddled in mountaintop retreats to produce beauty for their followers--beauty which should be respected.

**gettting down off my soapbox now**

EDIT:  I'm not saying I haven't burned my own mix discs, but I've a new approach to speading the word on excellent music:  if I feel strongly enough about a cd to want a friend or family member to have it as a gift (birthday, etc.) I buy them a copy instead of burning one.

[EC]

the industry is imploding because it forgot what its foundations were built on.  that's normal with everything.  there was some really cool stuff happening, and it sustained itself, and then everybody wanted to syphon off of that and it became a money and power struggle, and now it's not about music anymore.  to those people in the industry, anyhow.

not to us.  music's not going to go anywhere.  people will figure out how to make it - it's not really about industry, it's about creating something that you feel should b created.  gillian welch:  "we're gonna do it anyway, even if it doesn't pay."  

the only way to make sure the right people are getting rewarded for their efforts is to think about what you're doing and make good decisions.  if you're going to spend your money, make sure it gets infused into something worth sustaining.  do we need best buy?  no.  it sucks.  give your money to an indie record shop, or buy it directly from the artist at a concert.  buy a t-shirt.  talk about the music you love to other people, request it at radio stations.  this goes the same with all of your purchasing.  i have two stores that i love to buy my groceries from - they're both run by people that i really like and they stock their stores with items that i feel are good for the planet.  so i make sure to alternate between both of them so that my money is going to a place that i feel good about.  feed the people who feed you - physically and emotionally.

and musicians need to think for themselves and trust themselves.  thank god there are people out there who understand that if you love what you're doing, it will show, and there will be people out there who will also love what you're doing.  and it may not (probably won't be) everybody, and that's ok.  in fact it's good because then we get diversity.  i can almost dig everything if there's joy in it.  real joy is where it's at.

[searchinbig]

Here's my 2 pennies:  stop the pre-release crap dead.  Let the critics and magazines get the music the same time as the fans.  Shut down all digital online sharing sites.  iTunes and Napster should be preview only with the option the buy.  Abandon cd burner technology--if you want it ya buy it.  Bring back the midnight madness release date sales to build consumer hunger for the much anticipated releases.  Up and comers can still peddle their material through mysapce and home pages.  Tighten up the industry and the $ will come.

Wow, thats tough! The cat's out of the bag with technology, which I suppose is the reason for this discussion. As with anything the more you tighten the belt the greater the black market becomes. I think the pre release must go unless it's just one tune at a time, or include some bonus stuff with an order of the official release. An example would be JJ showed up to record EU with 30 songs, so maybe include some of those as a bonus. Or try a giveaway with the sale of the official release. I think that touring is the way the band will make their $$ anyway. Also, folks need to get back to listening to QUALITY, not itunes or lousy compressed files.

[bluntmaster]

well I guess if distribution is the issue you gotta plan at least 5 years in the future now just to keep up with the new technology.  think about it people already have internet on there phone, soon their phone will be a computer with high speed internet access to some degree and then so on and so on.  

so the facts are media like cds are going to be the same as vinyl has become, essientially there for your own enjoyment but I don't think music as far as hard copies go will ever be as huge as it was in the past.  just for the fact that it's the computer age now.  its 2008.  that david byrne article on wired says it all pretty much, I don't have the link because I'm at work.

musicians need to get a website, a good server, host all of their catalog or whatever they want avaliable for people to get directly from them and just self distrubt.  play shows, promote online in new innovative ways as the technology changes,etc.. that would be just a starting point

[bluntmaster]

here's that article I posted it a while back in that major bitch off thread about the leak:

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/magazine/16-01/ff_byrne

I think basically the record companies role has been reversed these days.
people can buy a 200dollar mixer with a usb connector and get a decent sound with even a shitty mic.  in that article it talks a bit about how some bands use to go bankrupt trying to make back all the money they ended up owing the music people.  I think stuff like that is bullshit.   the music industry is a piece of shit.  the musicians should be getting most of the profits for their work but instead get just over a buck for a 16dollar cd.  that's fucking bullshit straight up.  the record company should work for the band, not the band working for the record label.  I hope the industry completely collapses and the small market of music expands.  then all the pre-packaged formulated crap pop on the radio that is COMPLETELY owned by the record companies will desolve and people will hopefully be exposed to the real beauty of music, not the manufactured product that its become.

[Love Dogg]

Definitely stop the pre-releases.  If I don't know the band already and Rob Sheffield or Dave Eggars gives it a good review in my language, I'll go buy it...and most likely it's already out anyway.

I think the artists should have all creative control and album-by-album contracts.  This gives them more of the profits from cds, lps and downloads, which might, in turn lower ticket prices and t-shirt prices at shows.  

Lastly, someone (society) needs to turn the top 40 stations away from artificial music.  I HATE Nickelback, but I was thinking the other day that they deserve a lot of credit because they are one of the few, if not the only presence of "rock" in mainstream music (mtv, top 40, etc.)...the only presence of REAL instruments being played.  Instead, we are hearing stripper songs by young guys and girls rapping about banging and being slutty.  Don't get me wrong, the Rolling Stones sang about banging and being slutty, but it was masked quite a bit.  But now, these no talent ass clowns are talking about it with no regard.

I know I sound like a prude, but I'm not...I like Mickey Avalon and other skanky artists  I just think there should be some sort of censor of what can be said on air.  As it is now, as long as you don' t say the seven words George Carlin said you can't say on TV, then you can be as suggestive as you can.  I have a three year old daughter and she's too young to be influenced by that, but when she's older, that's the shit her friends are going to be listening to.  She'll want to fit in, so she'll listen, and she'll have to decifer what is bullshit, or get caught up in it.  I can only hope she's smart enough and listened to us enough to know the difference.

Wouldn't it be awesome if 14 year old kids were talking about My Morning Jacket and Wilco instead of Lil' Whoever and Shawty Whatever?

[tomEisenbraun]

Hey guys, great discussion here. I'm diggin that.

We created a new forum because the old medium was sucking and had a dang spam filter that we had to deal with. So it's now moved to: http://halfstack.freeforums.org

I'd love to see you guys on there. The whole goal of the forum is to create a good connection point for artists, industry professionals, recordists, producers, anyone who has good input to give and a little time to devote to it. We're working on a couple industry guys, and I'm going to see if the Jacket's management team are interested in this also. My thoughts are, with how friendly they are and how fan-oriented their work has been, we could hope to see them there sometime soon. I would imagine people like that would not be a major presence on the board, but definitely a unique and helpful one when they have some time to write a little bit for it.

I'd love to see any of you with blogs, or Flickr's or anything even remotely related to the creation of music or the industry on there. I would say it's definitely worth checking out, and we can use all the people we can who are interested in building that kind of a community and connections across the nation and across the globe. The music industry is going to start hearing from us little guys sooner or later in some form or fashion. Our aim is to be that form or fashion and to hit on the sooner rather than the later.

So check it out! We'd love to see you there!

[The DARK]

I think the real question is: will there even be a music industry in 10 years? Or will bands put out music with their own technology (the internet, CD burners, etc)? I think we're headed that direction.

[Jenny]

mp3s in general should go
i decided today that i'm selling my ipod
sure it's convenient, but music isn't supposed to be a convenience. it is supposed to be appreciated.
eh.
i have a lot to say, but so very little energy.
i'll be back.

[tower]

Or you could just give away your music and make your money off touring....

"In addition to touring, Big Head Todd & The Monsters are working on building their fan base by giving away free copies of their new album, "All The Love You Need." The band has teamed with several radio stations, who are mailing nearly half a million copies of the CD to listeners nationwide, according to a press release. The set is also available for free download at the band's website.

"We see the record as our main marketing tool," singer/guitarist Todd Park Mohr told the Denver Post. "It's no longer a source of income--not that it ever has been for me, given the way major labels work."

http://www.livedaily.com/news/13413.html

It's an interesting concept although a tough one for a smaller band that doesn't have the fanbase already.  Still, a thought...back in the day before technology musicians and artists didn't have recordings to sell, they made their money from performing.  And some actually did it to express themselves without a thought of making money, imagine that.

[EC]

motherfucking fuck.
records are not fucking marketing fucking tools fuckfuckfuck no.

whoooooooooooooooooooooo hooooo.  sorry.  tower, that is not directed at you personally.  reading that just made me feel like i wanted to throw my computer screen out of this window.

i might need to stay out of this thread.

[EC]

And some actually did it to express themselves without a thought of making money, imagine that.

sorry, i need to respond to that.
fuck.

um, we pay the mailman to deliver our mail.  we don't need mail delivery, really, we could pick up mail from one central location, but we really like mail delivered to our homes, so we make sure the mailman is taken care of.

it is difficult for people to understand that music, and art in general, is a job for some people.  a job that probably takes up more time than most peoples' jobs.  people get angry because they think that music is fun, and that musicians aren't "grown-ups", so why should they pay for THEM to do what THEY want when I'M not getting to do what I want, even though i enjoy their efforts and it makes my life easier to live when i listen to music that makes me feel good and has me think about stuff.

the hopes that you can sustain your life through music comes AFTER the record is made.  you're right, some chumps think about music in terms of money at the beginning of a project.  those people are usually losers and only get laid b/c they wear expensive jewellery.  but it is IMPORTANT TO PAY FOR THINGS THAT YOU ENJOY.  i know a lot of musicians in various stages of their careers/popularity, and i can promise you that nobody, not ONE of them, doesn't worry about money.  a lot of them aren't eating properly.  

end of rant.