this makes me sad

[camille]

A.   calling me ignorant because my personal idea of marriage is between a man & women  .  why so bitter  ?

B.  If there was a ballot initiative in Illinois for civil unions I would have voted for it.  I am not one to deny 2 people that love each other the same social benefits that I have.  
If you want it to be legal than you need to change the current language of the state legislation.  Currently in Illinois marriage is defined between a man and a women.  

I don't think I could support gay adoption. I struggle with it.  And it has nothing to do with religion.  I am not a religious person whatsoever.  I didn't make the laws, our founding fathers did.   If you want to change the laws, call your state representative.

If you peeps wanna bash me for  relating the story of a buddy of mine.  Be my guest.  I'm not here to change anybody's mind.  

I think the reason it bothers so many people - the reason it bothers me - is because this never should have been on the ballot. THe founding fathers had nothing to say on this topic. Clinton signed DOMA - The Defense of Marriage Act to define marriage as being between a man and a woman in the eyes of the federal government - putting the burden on individual states. That is an incredibly recent, not remotely founding-fathery law, and it was put in place by the Christian Right.

You may not be religious, but the reason this movement has so much money and heat is because the religious right is behind it in force.

You may be against gay marriage, but here's the thing, it doesn't affect you - you shouldn't have a say any more than I should have a say in your marriage. I don't like people raising Christian fundamentalist children. I think it's a form of child abuse. Ideologically, it bothers me, and I think it harms the kids, but it is also, emphatically, not my call.

There is absolutely nothing offensive or wrong about who two consenting adults choose to love... it really never should've been on the ballot.

[pawpaw]

Taterbug, I hear what you're sayin', it's a good argument. I WISH we had Pro 8 ads as logical as your argument, then at least the REAL issue could've been decided on.

I have no problem with churches not recognizing gay marriage, but in a legal sense, give the gays the label of marriage, and the associated rights. I know it gets sticky with churches being vulnerable to discrimination suits for turning away gays who want to be married, and I'm no lawyer, but I don't think they should have to alter their core beliefs for this, and there should be an exception. Not sure how that would work...still working out those details with my advisors ;)

Adam and Eve have nothing to do with city hall, a marriage license, and tax exemptions, imo.  

[camille]

Adam and Eve have nothing to do with city hall, a marriage license, and tax exemptions, imo.

very, very well said

[ycartrob]

I see so many st8 families that adopt children or be foster families solely for the $$. I worked at a transitional living home for 17-21 year olds, and it was not uncommon to get a call from a young person saying their foster parents or adoptive parents were kicking them out as soon as they turned 18 (which usually was a month or so down the road), and it was unsaid, but it's b/c the parents would lose their benefits when the young person turned 18. So, these young people had their biological parents do a number on them, then their foster parents did a number on them, and they came to us really screwed up.
We really didn't have a chance and I know a couple that are now in the penetintiary. And these are amazing young people, too. I wonder what would have become of them raised in a more stable environment from day 1; I believe that can happen in a gay household.

And the same thing when I was a family therapist. Totally str8 couples (when you could find the dad) totally irresponsible with their children; from the wealthy to the poor. Over and over and over again.

I know a gay male couple (doctor and lawyer) who have adopted through a surrogate and they had twins; they're 5 now and the kids are amazing, the parents are loving, stable home, good school, no drug and alcohol use. I totally support it.

I also think unstable gay parents can screw up young people just as bad as str8 couples and they have no business adopting, or pulling a number on their kids (like Tater's friend). It's a huge issue, not real black and white.

Personally, though, I am getting a little sick and tired of agreeing with Dylan... this is like the 3rd time this year;  maybe I'll start a Bengals thread  ;)

[DejaView2011]

Reading over this old thread, I really wanted to reply as I'm a 42 year old man who is not only Gay, but have an amazing lifepartner, a very normal life and a 16 year old daughter who is incredibly well adjusted and LOVES our unique family unit. As do all her friends. Our home is one of support, encouragement, unconditional love, tolerance and shelter. There's NOTHING weird about us, except for the fact that unlike most STR8 families, we communicate openly on all matters including sexuality. No secrets = No lies.  Unconventional or not. We have one hell of a happy family.
My Family Christmas 2010
Always having fun we are.

[Jaimoe]

I have great admiration and respect for two people committed enough to each other that they go through with marriage. I know a few married gay couples and they are happy, healthy and contribute to the community (and the latter shouldn't be a requirement). Gay marriages take place in my town, Toronto, all the time and it is a non-issue to the point where its part of society. Even our newish right-wing mayor doesn't get involved. Gay marriages have been legal across Canada since 2005 and even our majority-fronted, closeted evangelical right-wing Conservative Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, said he won't be examining the issue again.

Anyway, gay is never going away and if two couples love each other, then let's make their matrimony legal. And isn't living together in sin, in a committed relationship, recognized as common law marriage anyway, so what's the dif?

Religion around the world, Catholicism included, has far more destructive and damning problems than worrying about gay marriages.

[DejaView2011]

Amen. And Thank you (too). :-)

[The DARK]

Lots of respect for you. Happy to see everything going well for you and your family. Does your daughter share in the Jacket love?

[bowl of soup]

Forest Hill???

[DejaView2011]

Lots of respect for you. Happy to see everything going well for you and your family. Does your daughter share in the Jacket love?

LOL!! OMG. I wish. She has gotten into the 70's and 80's rock thanks to Guitar Hero (which I won't touch. I think it's pure evil. LOL) and digs the "rocker chick" style but she thinks The Jacket are a bunch of boring, hairy, unwashed guys who play music that makes no sense to her. I'm taking her to a show this summer though, so Jim and co. may work their magic on her live. Then again I won't notice what she's doing through the stars in my eyes and ears. IS IT NATURAL TO LOVE A BAND THIS MUCH???? My God.... This feels so good.