first black president or first woman V.P.

[ycartrob]

Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

there are plenty of loving Christian people who believe abortion is not killing. You (thank God) don't get to legislate your "version" of Christianity on humanity. There's a couple of passages in the Bible about judjing others, etc... you should check it out. As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

I guess you believe homosexuality is a sin too.

[bowl of soup]

Two things,

Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I see nothing wrong with parents combating the liberal indoctrination their kids are getting at public school, but it's totally irresponsible to talk to a little child about abortion, though.

I'm not holding out too much hope for MMJfantatic though, he seems to be all about fear and hate.

I disagree, but I was called a racist and a fear monger, too, so pay me no mind. And P.S., Penny is lovely - no hate monger there.

Are kids really getting a "liberal indoctrination" at public schools these days?  Seems to me that the only indoctrinating going on in public schools deals with how to pass standardized tests so that the schools can be funded.  Very few teachers have time to think of anything other than basic survival; I mean eating and keeping the lights on kind of stuff.

It's funny that we may both choose to avoid public schools for our offspring (should you choose to breed) for very different reasons.  I want my daughters to be creative, free thinking, and unburdened and I just think that public school teachers are too restrained to foster this for the most part.  Sure, there are tons of exceptions, but I don't want my kids crying about standardized tests.  I want to believe that my kids are not standard.

[Penny Lane]

i don't condone teaching or preaching hate to anyone, --did you not see the CHENEY thread yesterday calling him evil? all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers----my point is that it comes from both sides---i feel bad when a child hears these things--they are no more able to figure things out than most people i encounter on the street who have ZERO clue about anything---i mean people were wanting our VP to have a heart attack back a couple years ago--this guy does have a family somewhere---it's not one side or the other--it's EVERYWHERE. that was my point-i felt i needed to stick up for the GOP just like i did yesterday when i got an email forward from 5 black women in my office yesterday saying something about racism and the GOP and i decided to inform them that Nixon practically started affirmative action (Philadelphia Plan?), and also Kennedy voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act in 1953 before he voted FOR it once MLKs father guaranteed him election votes. ..yet somehow all repubs are racist-i'm digressing. i feel bad that this happened but my point wasn't to dismiss it

brad-i can totally understand your viewpoint that life begins at conception--i'm  pro choice and i'll stick to the theory that life begins at the viability of the fetus --the problem w/talking about this issue is there's no middle ground so it's pointless. it's like capital punish--

i always enjoy pat buchanan's take on the media issue:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78921

[Angry Ewok]

My 11 year old daughter's class picked  dodge  ball teams based on who they wanted to be president, 18 kids went to  team Obama and 1 kid was on team Mccain.  It was a bloodbath in the gym. The poor kid was massicured.

Grown-ups do the same thing - this forum is evidence enough of that. Kudos to that one kid, though.

Are kids really getting a "liberal indoctrination" at public schools these days?

Yes. At least based on the five or six public schools I attended. There are plenty of reasons to avoid sending our kids to public school, we share several of them, I see.

[aMillionDreams]

i don't condone teaching or preaching hate to anyone, --did you not see the CHENEY thread yesterday calling him evil? all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers----my point is that it comes from both sides---i feel bad when a child hears these things--they are no more able to figure things out than most people i encounter on the street who have ZERO clue about anything---i mean people were wanting our VP to have a heart attack back a couple years ago--this guy does have a family somewhere---it's not one side or the other--it's EVERYWHERE. that was my point-i felt i needed to stick up for the GOP just like i did yesterday when i got an email forward from 5 black women in my office yesterday saying something about racism and the GOP and i decided to inform them that Nixon practically started affirmative action (Philadelphia Plan?), and also Kennedy voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act in 1953 before he voted FOR it once MLKs father guaranteed him election votes. ..yet somehow all repubs are racist-i'm digressing. i feel bad that this happened but my point wasn't to dismiss it

brad-i can totally understand your viewpoint that life begins at conception--i'm  pro choice and i'll stick to the theory that life begins at the viability of the fetus --the problem w/talking about this issue is there's no middle ground so it's pointless. it's like capital punish--

i always enjoy pat buchanan's take on the media issue:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78921

I understand your argument: both sides do it.  I don't understand what you are inferring from that statement.  Are you inferring that it's okay because sides do it we have to guard our kids against liberal indoctrination by telling them awful lies?  If not, then what IS your point?  I didn't say all REPs are evil, in fact I said the opposite.  MY POINT is it should be stopped on both sides because it is wrong and only appeals to the worst of our nature.  I can't believe that would be a controversial thing to say on this board.

[Crispy]

I'm curious about this liberal indoctrination occurring at public schools - is it what they're teaching there or is it what's not being taught, such as "intelligent design" in science classes, or the lack of organized praying in class? Cite some examples for me of the liberalism you experienced at your public schools. Were there specific school-wide policies to teach socialism or were there individual teachers trying to promote their own agendas?

The teacher responsible for that dodgeball stunt should be ashamed - all that person did was to teach kids how to groupthink and how it feels better to just go with the rest of the crowd instead of making your own decisions.

[Angry Ewok]

all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

[ycartrob]

all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

but I don't hate anyone. And I am a moderate.

Most of my irritation with you was the fact you refused to answer my question, and when you did, you lied.

You have no clue about me, really.

[bowl of soup]

But don't you think that Letterman's question about G. Gordon Liddy was fair?  Will you not acknowledge that McCain's answer was bullshit?  What do you know about Watergate?  How come we don't play the you are who you associate with game on this front?  So Barack Hussein Obama can't sit on a board (with prominent Republicans by the way) with a washed-up terrorist, but it's ok for McCain to accept money and attand a fund raiser hosted by a central figure in the single greatest organized effort to subvert and destroy our entire system?  And it's o.k for the Hockey Mom's husband to belong to a party that openly advocates the secession of Alaska?

It is just weak and lack intellectual vigor.  And by the way, I believe that life really begins when we catch each other's eyes across a crowded place.  YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL!  YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL!  IT'S TRUE!

[dragonboy]

insulting remarks about our military

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4692589.stm

"Nearly 25,000 civilians have died violently in Iraq since the US-led invasion in March 2003, a report says.

The dossier, based on media reports, says US-led forces were responsible for more than a third of the deaths."

[BH]

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

[Angry Ewok]

As a tax paying citizen of the USA, you support abortion by paying taxes; you support a government that has legalized killing babies (in your opinion), and you give that governement (willingly and knowingly) your money that says you support the laws of the land, one of which is abortion is LEGAL. Doesn't really seem like it's that big of a moral dilema in the first palce.     What a Christian you are.

OK, I'm going to have to call Bull Shit on that one Tracy.   By this rationale, if I don't believe in any single law in this country, instead of working to try to change it, I should just move to another country.  What if there are no countries that stand for every single thing that I do?  Should I go to the moon?  Or I guess I would just have to jump off a bridge and martyr myself?

Or just be a secessionist?

I don't think anyone is taking Tracy seriously, anymore.

But don't you think that Letterman's question about G. Gordon Liddy was fair?

Why would you assume that? McCain isn't my candidate, by the way, I'm just sure he won't fuck the country as bad as Obama would.

So Barack Hussein Obama can't sit on a board (with prominent Republicans by the way) with a washed-up terrorist...

I wasn't referring to Ayers, but yeah, him, too.

P.S. You're a racist for stating Obama's name.

[dragonboy]

Life begins at conception, so in my opinion abortion is the termination of life. Obama is an extremist when it comes to abortion. Some folks are fine with that, but as a Christian I'm not.

I'm confused...you say that, as a Christian, you object to the termination of life, yet you find it insulting when Obama points out that it would be better if 'we have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages & killing civilians' How is that comment, in your own words, "insulting remarks about our military"?
So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians? I'm surprised that anyone would find that comment offensive, especially someone who claims to 'object to the termination of life'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7625167.stm

[Taterbug]

There  really is 2 Americas, And the only way anything is going to change ( for better or worse depending on your views )) is a super majority to avoid filibustering by either party.  With no super majority it's gonna be business as usual in D.C.  

[Angry Ewok]

So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians?

That's a sad attempt to twist my words. I'll say it again, it is insulting that Obama says our troops are over there just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. The implication there is that we're just carpet bombing Arabs with no enemy in sight. It's comments like that, that he continues to make (depending on the audience), that keeps McCain in this race.

[Crispy]

This "Obama is a socialist" babble is driving me mad! Where, oh where, does he advocate the nationalization of any of America's industries (something the present government currently seems to be OK with, for finance at least)? Not even health care insurance, which he wants to remain privatized! Oh yeah, it's the tax rates - which change, up or down or all around, all the freaking time and do not constitute a shift in government philosophy. "Spreading the wealth" was a terrible thing to say, it implies taking from the rich and giving it directly to lazy-ass poor people - but nobody wants to give out welfare for anybody (except the lazy-ass people I suppose). I view taxation as an investment in our country - and it needs to be used that way, constantly updating and improving infrastructure, defense, schools, utilities, and the countless other services (not welfare!) that can be provided to everybody. That is, making things better for the common good, including those less well off as well as those who can afford it. Yes, I wish it could be used to better effect and not wasted so much. I think Obama can do a better job of changing our government to work better than McCain would. If this was 10 years ago, I would be saying the same thing about McCain, but he has since changed his ideas to fit with the thinking of the GOP.

[Penny Lane]

all i've heard for 8 years is how our president and his administration are evil, stupid, war-mongering killers

But if you even think of bringing up Obama's [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM]Socialist plan for America[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM]foreign policy[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY]insulting remarks about our military[/link], or his [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NN4TKrViNE&feature=related]radical take on abortion[/link], or [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHH8OAro7g]beloved mentors[/link] well, you're just a fear mongering racist. See, that's how the extremists like Tracy work, Penny. He can call me all kinds of names all day long, he can attack my faith, he can attack my religion, he can go ballistic on me all day long - but I'm the one with the seething hatred.

;D

brad--i met you and shared a fantastic bonnaroo moment w/you and consider you a kindred spirit/board friend---but are you saying you're a moderate? LOL

amD--i thought your original post was blaming it more on the GOP but i totally agree it's both sides and it's a problem. my post was all over the place probably.

[Penny Lane]

This "Obama is a socialist" babble is driving me mad! Where, oh where, does he advocate the nationalization of any of America's industries (something the present government currently seems to be OK with, for finance at least)? Not even health care insurance, which he wants to remain privatized! Oh yeah, it's the tax rates - which change, up or down or all around, all the freaking time and do not constitute a shift in government philosophy. "Spreading the wealth" was a terrible thing to say, it implies taking from the rich and giving it directly to lazy-ass poor people - but nobody wants to give out welfare for anybody (except the lazy-ass people I suppose). I view taxation as an investment in our country - and it needs to be used that way, constantly updating and improving infrastructure, defense, schools, utilities, and the countless other services (not welfare!) that can be provided to everybody. That is, making things better for the common good, including those less well off as well as those who can afford it. Yes, I wish it could be used to better effect and not wasted so much. I think Obama can do a better job of changing our government to work better than McCain would. If this was 10 years ago, I would be saying the same thing about McCain, but he has since changed his ideas to fit with the thinking of the GOP.

i wasn't an economics major but isn't redistributing wealth a main tenet of socialism? (basically what his tax plans aims to do and what he's said over and over)

[dragonboy]

So you don't agree that NOT killing innocent civilians would be a good thing? Surely the military would rather they weren't killing innocent civilians?

That's a sad attempt to twist my words. I'll say it again, it is insulting that Obama says our troops are over there just air-raiding villages and killing civilians. The implication there is that we're just carpet bombing Arabs with no enemy in sight. It's comments like that, that he continues to make (depending on the audience), that keeps McCain in this race.

You post 12 sec youtube clips from Fox 'News' & then talk about sad attempts to twist words?

[Angry Ewok]

brad--i met you and shared a fantastic bonnaroo moment w/you and consider you a kindred spirit/board friend---but are you saying you're a moderate? LOL

:D ;D