The Sweet Science Thread

[capt. scotty]

...Speaking of the Dawson fight, how about this upcoming schedule in boxing..1 thing I love, is they always seem to end the year with a bang  :o

Oct 31: Agbeko-Perez (for Agbeko's title)
Nov 7: Dawson-Johnson II (for vacant LH title)
          Haye-Valuev (for Valuev's HW title)
Nov 14: PacMan-Cotto
Nov 21: Kessler-Ward (for Kessler's SM title and point in Super 6)
            Edison Miranda-TBA
Nov 28: Bute-Andrade II (for Bute's SM title..1st fight was great)
            Joan Guzman-Ali Funeka (for vacant LW title)
Dec 2: Hopkins-Ornelas
          RJJ-Green
           -BHop and RJJ tuneup fights before they fight early 2010
Dec 5: Paul Williams-TBA
          Arreola-TBA
Dec 12: Vitali Klitschko-Johnson (for Vitali's HW title)
           Tim Bradley-Lamont Peterson (for Bradleys' JW title)
           Darchinyan-Rojas (for Vic's JB title)

Best thing about it is the Pacman-Cotto fight is the only one that is PPV  :o

[Ruckus]

Just saw that the Paul Williams-Pavlik fight is off because Pavlik pulled out due to a hand injury...DAMNIT!

Cant wait for Chad Dawson-Glen Johnson II next week though...I think Dawson wins in convincing fashion this time.

Rumor is he might replace Jermain Taylor in the Super Six World Boxing Classic. Havent had any discussion on the S6WBC in here, but I think its a fantastic idea. You cant ask for better talent than what they got for it - Taylor, Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, Carl Froch, and Mikkel Kessler. Im actually surprised the undefeated American up and comers Dirrell and Ward decided to enter it with such stiff competition and not much of a resume.

The first 2 fights in the tournament were a couple weeks ago. Taylor already got KO'd by Abraham and Froch beat Dirrell on a SD.

The Super Six is a great idea!  The first two fights shown together on the same night, one in Germany for Abraham and one in England for Froch, was one of the best nights of boxing I'd seen in a long, long time.

Unlike Froch's win against Taylor earlier, Abraham was in control, biding his time, knowing that he would eventually take over.  It went exactly to prefight prognostications.

The Dirrel Froch fight was a whole different animal and it truly was a split decision that could have gone either way.  While I personally believed that Dirrell won the fight, the way Froch argued why he deserved his victory after the fight was very convincing.  The judges clearly were looking for the aggressor who wanted to fight vs. the speed puncher who hit and run and hit and held.  Though Dirrell was clearly the more talented fighter, I'm glad that overly cowardly tactics were not rewarded.  Looking forward to "robot" Kessler's fight.

Debating whether to purchase Cotto/Pacquaio :-/

[capt. scotty]

If I had the $$$ id def get the Pacman-Cotto fight. Should be a great one.

Agbeko-Perez was a FOTY candidate on saturday. Perez upset him with a UD win, but he scored a KD in I think the 11th round (a round Agbeko was winning) due to a headbutt that wasnt called. That might have been the difference in the fight. I wouldve given Perez the win by the slightest of margins, but the scorecards were all like 116-111 or something. It was much closer than that. Id expect a rematch due to the controversy and how good of a fight it was.

Cant wait for my boy Chad Dawson this weekend  8-)

[capt. scotty]

Damn....Dawson schooled Glen Johnson. I cant believe 2 cards had it 115-113 Dawson. I couldnt give Johnson more than 2 rounds in that fight, and I think Lederman only gave him one. Considering how close their first fight was, I think Dawson really showed that he's still just getting better.

I think B-Hop will school RJJ in their rematch. Id love to see Dawson go against B-Hop, but I dont think B-Hop wants any of that, and B-Hop is my favorite fighter of all time. I do think B-Hop could beat him, but Id have to favor Dawson.

I think going down in weight for the Super 6 if Taylor pulled out would drain him too much. I'd love to see it, especially since there is no competition for him at LH besides B-Hop, but not sure if its a good move.

IMO, the biggest reason Calzaghe retired is because he knew if he stuck around another year or 2, he pretty much would have to go against Dawson. I think Dawson would own him.

[bearass]

gotta disagree on the hopkins jones outcome

but.. we all know that calzaghe was a badass but a badass who never stepped up his game and only fought bums or people past their primes

[Paulie_Walnuts]

gotta disagree on the hopkins jones outcome

but.. we all know that calzaghe was a badass but a badass who never stepped up his game and only fought bums or people past their primes

Calzaghe was a ducker and will never be regarded as the great unbeaten fighter that he thinks he is. I understand that fighters need to make money, but he'd made plenty and still refused to fight the best. Unfortunately the British media big him up in order to make money themselves, and the British punters fell for it.

Looking forward to Pacquiao v Cotto this weekend. I believe Pacquiao is going to be way too fast and skilful and will win with a stoppage.

Go Pac Man!

[Paulie_Walnuts]

Just saw that the Paul Williams-Pavlik fight is off because Pavlik pulled out due to a hand injury...DAMNIT!

Cant wait for Chad Dawson-Glen Johnson II next week though...I think Dawson wins in convincing fashion this time.

Rumor is he might replace Jermain Taylor in the Super Six World Boxing Classic. Havent had any discussion on the S6WBC in here, but I think its a fantastic idea. You cant ask for better talent than what they got for it - Taylor, Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, Carl Froch, and Mikkel Kessler. Im actually surprised the undefeated American up and comers Dirrell and Ward decided to enter it with such stiff competition and not much of a resume.

The first 2 fights in the tournament were a couple weeks ago. Taylor already got KO'd by Abraham and Froch beat Dirrell on a SD.

The Super Six is a great idea!  The first two fights shown together on the same night, one in Germany for Abraham and one in England for Froch, was one of the best nights of boxing I'd seen in a long, long time.

Unlike Froch's win against Taylor earlier, Abraham was in control, biding his time, knowing that he would eventually take over.  It went exactly to prefight prognostications.

The Dirrel Froch fight was a whole different animal and it truly was a split decision that could have gone either way.  While I personally believed that Dirrell won the fight, the way Froch argued why he deserved his victory after the fight was very convincing.  The judges clearly were looking for the aggressor who wanted to fight vs. the speed puncher who hit and run and hit and held.  Though Dirrell was clearly the more talented fighter, I'm glad that overly cowardly tactics were not rewarded.  Looking forward to "robot" Kessler's fight.

Debating whether to purchase Cotto/Pacquaio :-/

I didn't see the Dirrell v Froch fight but its an interesting and relevant point that you make about judges looking for the aggressor and Froch getting the win.

I don't know if anybody over the pond saw the Heavyweight title fight between Nicolai Valuev and Britain's David Haye (it probably wasn't big news over there) but it again highlights the fickle nature of Britain's boxing fans. Generally British fans subscribe to your point of view that the aggressive fighter should be favoured over the skilful, defensive boxer. Ricky Hatton is a case in point. He is loved over here, and although he isn't that skilful he is lauded for his "have a go" attitude. Yet when Haye spent 12 rounds running away from Valuev last weekend and nicking a points decision the British boxing forums were filled with fans talking about boxing being about skill, not getting hit, and landing clean punches. They totally changed their view point when Valuev was the aggressor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Valuev is out of the picture, and I like David Haye. He's gunning for the Kiltchko's and I believe he's got a real chance. The Klitchko's don't like getting hit. You can sometimes see the fear in their eyes when they are fighting. And Haye can punch! If he lands they will be in trouble.

I think you will be seeing more of him in the US next year.

[bearass]

damn pacman DOMINATED i thought it would be close and was kind of disappointed it wasnt oh well now we wait for mayweather to step up

[bearass]

[/quote]
 I believe Pacquiao is going to be way too fast and skilful and will win with a stoppage.

[/quote]
it took 12 but nice call

[Ruckus]

I didn't see the fight but was catching the Dan Rafael round by round updates and look forward to watching the replay.  Mayweather HAS to step up now.  There is nowhere else for either of them to go.

[capt. scotty]

gotta disagree on the hopkins jones outcome

why so?

RJJ's career was built on his speed, not his technique. I really dont think it will be all that close. Maybe it will be, but I cant see RJJ beating B-Hop at this point.

...and when RJJ beat him in their first fight, B-Hop wasnt anywhere close to the skill level his is now and really hadnt had any big fights.

Either way, cant wait for the rematch

[capt. scotty]

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Valuev is out of the picture, and I like David Haye. He's gunning for the Kiltchko's and I believe he's got a real chance. The Klitchko's don't like getting hit. You can sometimes see the fear in their eyes when they are fighting. And Haye can punch! If he lands they will be in trouble.

I think you will be seeing more of him in the US next year.

I just want some HW to come into the picture and at least give a Klit a good fight. I thought Arreola could maybe do that, but Vitaly dominated

[capt. scotty]

I didn't see the fight but was catching the Dan Rafael round by round updates and look forward to watching the replay.  Mayweather HAS to step up now.  There is nowhere else for either of them to go.

Havent seen it either yet, but its going to happen. Theres been more buzz in the media this week than I expected.

I heard that they want to host it at Yankee stadium, which I kind of like but kind of dont. Id hate to see weather be a factor and postpone it.

I think it would be sweet if they fought somewhere outside of the US (Philippines notwithstanding)...I think that would generate even more attention globally than everyone already knows it will.

[Ruckus]

Just saw that the Paul Williams-Pavlik fight is off because Pavlik pulled out due to a hand injury...DAMNIT!

Cant wait for Chad Dawson-Glen Johnson II next week though...I think Dawson wins in convincing fashion this time.

Rumor is he might replace Jermain Taylor in the Super Six World Boxing Classic. Havent had any discussion on the S6WBC in here, but I think its a fantastic idea. You cant ask for better talent than what they got for it - Taylor, Arthur Abraham, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, Carl Froch, and Mikkel Kessler. Im actually surprised the undefeated American up and comers Dirrell and Ward decided to enter it with such stiff competition and not much of a resume.

The first 2 fights in the tournament were a couple weeks ago. Taylor already got KO'd by Abraham and Froch beat Dirrell on a SD.

The Super Six is a great idea!  The first two fights shown together on the same night, one in Germany for Abraham and one in England for Froch, was one of the best nights of boxing I'd seen in a long, long time.

Unlike Froch's win against Taylor earlier, Abraham was in control, biding his time, knowing that he would eventually take over.  It went exactly to prefight prognostications.

The Dirrel Froch fight was a whole different animal and it truly was a split decision that could have gone either way.  While I personally believed that Dirrell won the fight, the way Froch argued why he deserved his victory after the fight was very convincing.  The judges clearly were looking for the aggressor who wanted to fight vs. the speed puncher who hit and run and hit and held.  Though Dirrell was clearly the more talented fighter, I'm glad that overly cowardly tactics were not rewarded.  Looking forward to "robot" Kessler's fight.

Debating whether to purchase Cotto/Pacquaio :-/

I didn't see the Dirrell v Froch fight but its an interesting and relevant point that you make about judges looking for the aggressor and Froch getting the win.

I don't know if anybody over the pond saw the Heavyweight title fight between Nicolai Valuev and Britain's David Haye (it probably wasn't big news over there) but it again highlights the fickle nature of Britain's boxing fans. Generally British fans subscribe to your point of view that the aggressive fighter should be favoured over the skilful, defensive boxer. Ricky Hatton is a case in point. He is loved over here, and although he isn't that skilful he is lauded for his "have a go" attitude. Yet when Haye spent 12 rounds running away from Valuev last weekend and nicking a points decision the British boxing forums were filled with fans talking about boxing being about skill, not getting hit, and landing clean punches. They totally changed their view point when Valuev was the aggressor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Valuev is out of the picture, and I like David Haye. He's gunning for the Kiltchko's and I believe he's got a real chance. The Klitchko's don't like getting hit. You can sometimes see the fear in their eyes when they are fighting. And Haye can punch! If he lands they will be in trouble.

I think you will be seeing more of him in the US next year.

I have yet to see Haye fight.  I can't believe that Valuev was the aggressor.  As for the Klitschkos, I feels as if Vitali is much more willing to take a punch than Wladimir.  The younger one has learned to use his size and reach to protect his chin since the Corrie Sanders debacle and the fight after that.  Emmanuel Steward has done an amazing job with him.

As for the Super 6, I'm looking forward to the Kessler/Ward fight this weekend.  I think it is an extraordinary matchup.  I never saw the Ward/Miranda fight so I'm not sure how Ward looked against top competition though I know he beat him.  Kessler is a protypical European, in the box, punching machine.  I'm wondering if Kessler's jab and straight right and methodical nature will get to the younger Ward or if Ward's skill will prevail.  Fantastic stuff!

[capt. scotty]

Kessler-Ward should be some sweet stuff tonight. Kessler is only a (-205), and IMO Ward is a pretty big wildcard. I dont think Kessler will KO him, but I think it could be anywhere from Ward winning 117-111 to the other way around.

Clearly Vegas thinks its a pretty even match with Ward having a good shot at an upset.

[Ruckus]

Kessler-Ward should be some sweet stuff tonight. Kessler is only a (-205), and IMO Ward is a pretty big wildcard. I dont think Kessler will KO him, but I think it could be anywhere from Ward winning 117-111 to the other way around.

Clearly Vegas thinks its a pretty even match with Ward having a good shot at an upset.

Yeah this is gonna be awesome.  I'm gonna be out of town til late tonight so I am DVRing both the Ward/Kessler and Pacquaio/Cotto rematch which are playing at the same time.  Should be a great evening of boxing!

[Ruckus]

Watching Pacquaio is the best!  During is destruction of Cotto, I kept thinking about how he would match up with Mayweather and I have to think he would have a very good shot, particularly if he can maintain such a high energy level.  As Emanuel Steward said a couple of times, the thing I was most impressed with was Pacman's ability to take a shot.  Cotto landed heavy early in the fight and it didn't faze Pacman.  That is what has me the most convinced that this Mayweather fight is a toss up.

As for the Super 6, Andre Ward destroyed Mikkel Kessler.  Yes there were more than one questionable headbutts by Ward that really harmed Kessler but it really didn't matter.  From the beginning, Kessler just had nothing and as Bernstein harped on, he made no adjustments to the quicker Ward.  Kessler was really exposed here.  It'll be interesting to see how he bounces back.

He was a little bitch in his post fight interview blaming his loss on fighting in the states and the referee.

[capt. scotty]

Still haven't watched the Pac-Cotto fight since I already know the outcome but def will fire that up on the DVR sometime in the next month.

I knew Ward was good, but he totally deconstructed Kessler. Showed a lot of techniques/ideas you usually only see in guys much more experienced than him (although his amateur experience is significantly more than most) and that I've never seen from him. He looked exactly like he had in all of his other fights that Ive seen - totally comfortable, moving in and out, switching to southpaw and back, etc. I just cant believe he was able to make it look as easy vs. Kessler as he did vs. all of his other opponents. Amazing.

Ward and Abraham have to be the favorites and I hope to see that fight in the finals, but I'll take it in the semis. Ward-Dirrell should be good and an interesting watch as well and they def will fight in Stage 3.

And since Bute owned Andrade in their fight last week, I almost guarantee the winner of the Super 6 will have a title fight vs. Bute.

[capt. scotty]

[size=20]MARCH 13th!!!!!!![/size]


[smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

[capt. scotty]

Finally caught the Dirrell-Froch fight on replay tonight.

I started watching from round 3, but....

-I had it 5-3 Dirrell for those 10 rounds, and thought 6-2 wouldnt have been out of line
-I scored the 10th round 9-9. Taking a point away from Dirrell - without warning mind you - was complete BS. Add in that both fighters (Dirrell holding, Froch with the back of the head punches) were frequently doing the do, it made even less sense. Dirrell really came on after that happened and dominated the 10th and 11th
-I thought the 12th was 10-10...Froch did what he did most of the 2nd half, but Dirrell had 2-3 combos similar to the rest of the fight and I couldnt pick either in the 12th.

Postfight, Froch kind of came off like Kessler to me. He didnt get beat that bad, granted, but he gave Dirrell little credit. He claimed to be the aggressor, but when he was that, the times he actually connected were few and far between. Some of Dirrell's best punches came after getting out of Froch's desperate flurries.

All in all, I doubt the first 2 rounds would change my mind. Unless Froch won the first 2 convincingly (which didnt happen in any round I gave him), I think Dirrell got robbed of a victory....and thats without having ever seen either guy fight before and having a bias