the hockey thread

[.Walt]

Jaimoe, can you explain why or how Gretzky could post 200pts so many times. I'd say Ovechkin or Crosby would have the best chance (if anyone had a chance), but Ovechkin highest point totals are in the 110's no where near 200. I was looking at the point leaders during the years Gretzky was around, nobody was really close to  him, but it seems like everyone was scoring back then. Other then the fact that he's the Great One, there has to be a reason. Thanks.

[Jaimoe]

Jaimoe, can you explain why or how Gretzky could post 200pts so many times. I'd say Ovechkin or Crosby would have the best chance (if anyone had a chance), but Ovechkin highest point totals are in the 110's no where near 200. I was looking at the point leaders during the years Gretzky was around, nobody was really close to  him, but it seems like everyone was scoring back then. Other then the fact that he's the Great One, there has to be a reason. Thanks.

Sometimes there really isn't an explanation other than he was far better than everyone else (one thing he had is the best on-ice intelligence this world will ever see). He had a great team around him and one good line-mate (Kurri). I always thought that Mario was just as good or better, but he was always hurt. Yzerman was also in the same league with these two, but he played on terrible teams and was the only good player on Detroit; he carried those teams (compare his stats during the early to mid years with the rest of his teammates). Gretzky was playing years out of his age group at every level of hockey - when he was 6-7, he was playing against 10 year olds and dominating, etc...

[capt. scotty]

Jaimoe, can you explain why or how Gretzky could post 200pts so many times. I'd say Ovechkin or Crosby would have the best chance (if anyone had a chance), but Ovechkin highest point totals are in the 110's no where near 200. I was looking at the point leaders during the years Gretzky was around, nobody was really close to  him, but it seems like everyone was scoring back then. Other then the fact that he's the Great One, there has to be a reason. Thanks.

Sometimes there really isn't an explanation other than he was far better than everyone else (one thing he had is the best on-ice intelligence this world will ever see). He had a great team around him and one good line-mate (Kurri). I always thought that Mario was just as good or better, but he was always hurt. Yzerman was also in the same league with these two, but he played on terrible teams and was the only good player on Detroit; he carried those teams (compare his stats during the early to mid years with the rest of his teammates). Gretzky was playing years out of his age group at every level of hockey - when he was 6-7, he was playing against 10 year olds and dominating, etc...

Having Hodgkins disease made him miss 3 years as well, I believe.

Plus throw in different rules, goalies with smaller protection/pads and you got some reasons why. I think scoring overall was higher in the 80's though, not like Gretzky was getting 200 and the next guy had 100...right?

[Jaimoe]

Jaimoe, can you explain why or how Gretzky could post 200pts so many times. I'd say Ovechkin or Crosby would have the best chance (if anyone had a chance), but Ovechkin highest point totals are in the 110's no where near 200. I was looking at the point leaders during the years Gretzky was around, nobody was really close to  him, but it seems like everyone was scoring back then. Other then the fact that he's the Great One, there has to be a reason. Thanks.

Sometimes there really isn't an explanation other than he was far better than everyone else (one thing he had is the best on-ice intelligence this world will ever see). He had a great team around him and one good line-mate (Kurri). I always thought that Mario was just as good or better, but he was always hurt. Yzerman was also in the same league with these two, but he played on terrible teams and was the only good player on Detroit; he carried those teams (compare his stats during the early to mid years with the rest of his teammates). Gretzky was playing years out of his age group at every level of hockey - when he was 6-7, he was playing against 10 year olds and dominating, etc...

Having Hodgkins disease made him miss 3 years as well, I believe.

Plus throw in different rules, goalies with smaller protection/pads and you got some reasons why. I think scoring overall was higher in the 80's though, not like Gretzky was getting 200 and the next guy had 100...right?

Lemieux, Gretzky and Yzerman are basically from the same era - given the longevity of Wayne's point-production.

Gretzky's first 200+ point season, 1981-82, he had 65 more points than the #2 player, Mike Bossy and over 100 points more than the #2 leading scorer on Edmonton (Glen Anderson). This is staggering, but not unusual.

[.Walt]

I knew about the goalie equipment, but I don't think it would make that big of a difference or did it. They just changed the rules to encourage scoring.

Do you think Crosby or Ovy could have posted similar numbers if they played back then? Maybe not similar, but close to?

Got my 3000th post!

[Jaimoe]

I knew about the goalie equipment, but I don't think it would make that big of a difference or did it. They just changed the rules to encourage scoring.

Do you think Crosby or Ovy could have posted similar numbers if they played back then? Maybe not similar, but close to?

Got my 3000th post!

There were more Crosby and Ovechkin types back then, so I'd say they'd have better numbers, but not even close to Gretzky numbers.

[.Walt]

thanks Jaimoe, that's the answer I was looking for!


Went to the MN State Mankato vs MN Duluth game tonight. Nice seats, right on the blue line and first row. We lost in OT 4-3. Got a little physical. Then some Duluth fans got kicked out for throwing stuff onto the ice. We got screwed on a couple of calls and missed calls, but it was a really fun game.

Greetings from Minnesota, hockey fans! (my brother and me, I'm on the left)

[Jaimoe]

I like the Hawks jersey, but I'd rather see you wearing a Canadian name on the back such as Toews, Sharp, Keith or even an old-school Savard, Larmer, Esposito or Secord ;)

BTW, tell your bro I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a Zetterberg.

[.Walt]

Yes, I write on Nicklas Backstrom's website to tell him to do well for my fantasy hockey team, but it's official, I have a man crush on him.

[capt. scotty]

Yes, I write on Nicklas Backstrom's website to tell him to do well for my fantasy hockey team, but it's official, I have a man crush on him.

i have a mancrush on the one on the right  :-*

[Jaimoe]

Hey boys, Brian Burke went trade-crazy today (and I don't know if it's over just yet):

From Toronto's The Fan 590 website:

Leafs Shake Up Roster
Phaneuf, Giguere, two others to Leafs; Hagman, Stajan, White, & Mayers to Calgary; Blake, Toskala to Anaheim
Sunday, January 31st, 2010

In a bid to shake up his slumping club, Toronto GM Brian Burke shipped out six players Sunday in exchange for former all-star defenceman Dion Phaneuf from the Calgary Flames and goalie J.S. Giguere from the Anaheim Ducks.

Burke says the moves were all about ridding the team of its ``sense of entitlement.''
 

``We've got to create tension where there's enough talent on the roster and a high enough battle level that the coach has decisions to make,'' Burke told reporters. ``Right now he doesn't have decisions to make. It's these guys who got  to go on the ice. We're trying to change that. Today is an important part of changing that.''
 

``We're still open for business, we're not done,'' he added.
 

The moves come after Toronto lost a 5-3 decision Saturday night to the Vancouver Canucks to extend its winless streak to six games. The Leafs (17-28-11, 45 points) are tied with Carolina for last overall in the Eastern Conference standings.
 

In the Calgary deal, the Leafs also acquired six-foot-six defenceman Keith Aulie and winger Fredrik Sjostrom. In exchange, Toronto gave up defenceman Ian White and forwards Matt Stajan, Nick Hagman and Jamal Mayers.
 

The Leafs sent goalie Vesa Toskala and winger Jason Blake to Anaheim in exchange for Giguere, who became expendable after the Ducks signed No. 1 goalie Jonas Hiller to a four-year extension Saturday.
 

``Not taking any shots at Vesa, we felt we had to make this move,'' Burke said.
 

The acquisition of Giguere will allow the Leafs to give Swedish rookie Jonas Gustavsson more time to learn.
 

Toskala has posted a 3.66 GAA over 26 games while Gustavsson _ who twice has been treated for a heart problem this year _ has a 3.03 GAA in his 31 appearances.
 

The move also reunites Giguere with Burke and goaltending coach Francois Allaire.
 

``What I loved about him is I've never had a goalie that works this hard ... I've had lots of goalies and I've had good goalies but I've never had a goalie that worked as hard as J.S. Giguere,'' said Burke.
 

The six-foot-three, 214-pound Phaneuf has appeared in 55 games this season with Calgary, registering 10 goals and 12 assists with 49 penalty minutes. The Edmonton native is in his fifth NHL season _ all with Calgary _ after being selected ninth overall in 2003.
 

Burke called Phaneuf an elite player whom he tried to acquire earlier in the season.
 

``This guy's a warrior. He's got a cannon for a shot. He plays the game hard .. I want players who play the game hard because they're hard to play against,'' he said.
 

Phaneuf, 24, made the NHL all-rookie team in 2005-'06 and has twice played in the league's all-star game (2006-'07 and 2007-'08).
 

The 20-year-old Aulie is currently with the Abbotsford Heat of the AHL and the Leafs plan to keep him in the AHL with the Toronto Marlies. He won gold with the Canadian junior team.
 

``Excellent skater for a big man,'' said Burke. ``This is a guy we coveted and had to work very hard to get him in the deal. We think he's going to be a real good NHL player down the road for a long time.''
 

Sjostrom, taken 11th overall in the 12001 draft by Phoenix, was billed by Burke as a good skater and a fine penalty-killer. He has one goal and five assists in 56 games this season.
 

Stajan had 16 goals and 25 assists in 55 games while Hagman had 20 goals and 13 assists in 55 games. White had nine goals and 17 assists in 56 games.
 

Only Miikka Kiprusoff and Jay Bouwmeester (both at US$7 million) make more on the Flames this season than Phaneuf, who is at $6.5 million this year. Sjostrom is at $750,000.
 

Hagman makes $3 million, Stajan $1.75 million, Mayers $1.4 million and White $950,000.
 

Asked about the salary cap situation, Burke said it would ``manageable'' after the planned second deal.
 

``Right now it's like a new pair of underwear,'' he said. ``It's uncomfortably tight.''
 

He said later: ``At the end of the day, with this trade I think we end up pretty close to where we were.''
 

The Ducks locked up Hiller with a four-year, $18-million contract extension. That made Giguere an expensive backup as he was scheduled to make $7 million next season. Had Anaheim kept the two, they could've entered 2010-11 with $11.5 million tied up between their goaltenders.
 

Giguere, 32, certainly fills a need in Toronto, where neither Toskala nor Gustavsson have grabbed the job.
 

Giguere has a 4-8-5 record with a 3.14 GAA and a .900 save percentage this season. By comparison, Hiller is 21-15-2 with a 2.75 GAA and a .920 save percentage.
 

Giguere was drafted 13th overall by the Hartford Whalers in the 1995 NHL draft. He played in the Calgary Flames organization for four seasons before joining the Ducks in 2000.
 

He captured the 2003 Conn Smythe Trophy before winning the Stanley Cup with the Ducks in 2007.
 
 

The Leafs blew a 3-0 lead Saturday night, a loss Burke said had soured him but had not prompted the shakeup.
 

``These pieces were in place prior to yesterday,'' he said.
 

Asked about the status of Tomas Kaberle, Burke insisted he will not ask the defenceman to waive his no-trade clause.

[joey_rogo]

well i respect them for actually trying something and not tanking it in. i liked having dion as far away from my team as possible though. freddy shoestring was a favorite of mine when he was a ranger, i think leafs fans will like the effort he brings every night.

and wow, czarniak is lookin good. i remember her from her pit reporter days at the racetrack.

[Jaimoe]

well i respect them for actually trying something and not tanking it in. i liked having dion as far away from my team as possible though. freddy shoestring was a favorite of mine when he was a ranger, i think leafs fans will like the effort he brings every night.

and wow, czarniak is lookin good. i remember her from her pit reporter days at the racetrack.

I won't like Calgary quite as much without Dion (he's the meanest S.O.B. in the NHL from a really mean team). These trades for the Leafs are at least interesting and ballsy. However, Toronto didn't have much scoring before the trades, and now they are left with almost none. Dion (my favourite D-man) has been erratic this season and the play of Mark Giordano made him expendable.

BTW, Ian White has been the best player on the Leafs this year, and he's really cheap.

Also, I've been a fan of Fredrik Sjostrom since his Rangers days.

But as a life-long Bruins fan, this is a great day: Taylor Hall should start looking for a place ASAP because the Leafs will with little doubt, finish last.

[joey_rogo]

I won't like Calgary quite as much without Dion (he's the meanest S.O.B. in the NHL from a really mean team). These trades for the Leafs are at least interesting and ballsy. However, Toronto didn't have much scoring before the trades, and now they are left with almost none. Dion (my favourite D-man) has been erratic this season and the play of Mark Giordano made him expendable.

BTW, Ian White has been the best player on the Leafs this year, and he's really cheap.

Also, I've been a fan of Fredrik Sjostrom since his Rangers days.

But as a life-long Bruins fan, this is a great day: Taylor Hall should start looking for a place ASAP because the Leafs will with little doubt, finish last.

not so fast on the race for 15th. with the way the rangers have been playing as of late, anything's possible :P :'(

[Jaimoe]

I won't like Calgary quite as much without Dion (he's the meanest S.O.B. in the NHL from a really mean team). These trades for the Leafs are at least interesting and ballsy. However, Toronto didn't have much scoring before the trades, and now they are left with almost none. Dion (my favourite D-man) has been erratic this season and the play of Mark Giordano made him expendable.

BTW, Ian White has been the best player on the Leafs this year, and he's really cheap.

Also, I've been a fan of Fredrik Sjostrom since his Rangers days.

But as a life-long Bruins fan, this is a great day: Taylor Hall should start looking for a place ASAP because the Leafs will with little doubt, finish last.

not so fast on the race for 15th. with the way the rangers have been playing as of late, anything's possible :P :'(

The race is not on for 15th, it's on for DEAD LAST in the NHL. The Leafs should win that dubious title and in turn, give Boston the #1 pick in the upcoming NHL entry draft. If you don't know Taylor Hall, you will. He's even a better prospect than Steve Stamkos and Tavares.

[joey_rogo]

i'm excited to see what hall will do in the nhl. i've heard a TON about him but haven't seen him play yet.

[Jaimoe]

i'm excited to see what hall will do in the nhl. i've heard a TON about him but haven't seen him play yet.

He's been the best forward in the CHL since he was 16 (including an older Tavares and Stamkos) and he was the best forward at the World Juniors this year. The kid can flat out play, and he's not soft (but he looks like a choirboy). BTW, the projected #2 pick in the 2010 draft is a franchise player too: Dan Seguin from Plymouth of the Ontario Hockey League (a rival team of Hall's) - some mock drafts had him going #1, but he didn't make the Canadian world junior team this year (not many 17-year olds have traditionally made Team Canada); but, he'd be a great choice at #1 (not unlike last year with Tavares at #1, #2 Hedman, #3 Matt Duchene and Evander Kane @ #4 - all are making big contributions for their NHL clubs this year). I wouldn't be shocked if Boston went with Seguin, but the feeling amongst the hockey scribes is that Hall is an almost lock. 

[capt. scotty]

Heard about this this morning...pretty surprising I thought.

Time to head over to yahoo to drop my bum 2nd defenseman behind Mike Green and pick up Ian White

[capt. scotty]

Kovalchuk to Jersey for basically Niclas Bergfors...what a steal.

DAMNIT!

[Jaimoe]

Kovalchuk to Jersey for basically Niclas Bergfors...what a steal.

DAMNIT!

and a first round pick, 2010 Team Canada world junior captain Patrice Cormier and solid d-man Johnny Oduya. Atlanta is a poor pro sports city almost across the board fan-support wise, so this trade won't help draw in fans. The trade might look good in a few years, although the Thrashers have a good core of young talent. Ilya had to go due to his huge contract.