Musical highs and lows

[el_chode]

I got in a beer-induced discussion on the last good year for music, which was agreed (somewhat) to be 1996ish. The other side said we've never recovered, and I said the difference between the early and mid 90s and now is that there just hasn't been a cohesive scene geographically, nor has there been a cohesive merging of what is truly good music and what is popular. It's been more of a sparse post-apocalyptic landscape dotted by monumental albums and the occasional scenic view. The 90s saw great bands co-exist with great one-hit wonders that were actually awesome bands (like Nada Surf or Better than Ezra). It was then killed by the insurgence of Creed, Linkin Park, Staind, and other eyebrow ring music.

After that, bands had to stand on their own. Indie rock was marketed to extinction in the same way Grunge was, and emo became the new talentless hair metal. The biggest and best albums never got the exposure like Ten and Nevermind, and instead they seem to only have gotten to the level similar underground legends of the 90s, like Slanted and Enchanted or Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star. Albums like Boys and Girls in America or Z, even if not fan favorites, are put together so well that they should be as legendary in shaping the musical landscape as Ten or Nevermind, yet they never really reached the level of national acclaim that they deserved. Instead they'll live on within the realm of music snobs and hipsters who claim to be "in the know". This may not be a bad thing though.

Any thoughts? Did music die in 1996? Is there a scene outside of some mile-long stretch of dive bars in Austin that I'm missing? Certainly music doesn't suck now, but there's no real uniting force. To sum it up - there's not any one sound for a band like Candlebox to ruin.

[Penny Lane]

i don't think you'll have any more scenes (let alone an epic scene like that) other than the smaller ones (baltimore, portland) w/a few bands gaining a little notoriety from pitchfork or some festival play. there are so many small labels, websites, digital resources to distribute music that bands really can start touring, distributing, getting out there w/out the help of a scene. you used to have the radio telling you what was good and what to listen to --now satellite radio, internet radio, file sharing, any kind of music is at your fingertips so you'll never have the kind of effect that an album like Ten had; just too much variety out there and too much access to everything--information overload as Jim talks about... i remember Nevermind and Ten just blowing people away because it also went against everything mainstream; now anything different IS the mainstream/ antony & the johnsons IS the mainstream;

but there area lot of bands around now that sound very forgettable as the candleboxes did of the 90s  (arcade fire, clap your hands, etc) a ton of indie bands i can never see past a few albums; they get blown up so huge and they just don't have staying power---i think as we get older, it gets easier to spot those bands

[Jaimoe]

I think one of the best decades for "popular" music is this current decade. The 90s was pretty good and the 80s almost killed rock... and disco killed rock for a little while in the 70s.

I had a music history professor back in the late 80s tell my class that rock music wasn't original or innovative after 1969 and he made a compelling case: that rock and pop in the decades following the 60s did nothing new; that the artists only adapted what was created in the 60s and 50s. As much as that confused me at the time (I was pretty young), he was (and is) right. But, he also thought everything after Tommy was unworthy. I'd love to jump back in time and take on this Queen's University and future Harvard professor. I'd kick his ass. There's really a ceiling on what can be created and/or modified and popular music hit the saturation point in the late 60s - the prof was no fan of 70s Zappa, but loved the original Mothers. But things evolve and to remain rooted in any decade is short-sighted, ignorant and pathetic.  

[ManNamedTruth]

Arcade Fire sound forgettable?
I think there will always be good music around, that won't change. It doesn't matter much to me wether it reaches the mainstream or not.

[ycartrob]

A discussion about good and bad music. Oh boy...  :-/

[Vadie Stark]

 ;D :D :D ;D

[Ruckus]

Every Year = Awesome Music to be Found

[el_chode]

What I'm getting at is not that there's a lack of truly incredible music being made, but it's more like the city states of Greece vs the Roman Empire - there are a lot of strong city state type bands that are these islands of talent, and you have your little islands full of sirens luring you in that are great, but will probably always be somewhat of local legend you whisper about to a visitor.  There's not a massive, cohesive scene, whether it be geographically or commercially, that combines great talent + recognition.

And for what it's worth, the Arcade Fire have a very forgettable sound. I'll give them credit in creating the mood, but they're a band where the songs build but never peak, they just meander along.

To me, it just feels like that a lack of organization causes people to become like the arcade fire - they meander but never go anywhere. They float from island to island/band to band. Maybe it's complacency.

I guess the only thing I feel like we're missing out on from not having that "sound" would be missing out on a feeling like Hunter Thompson described in Fear and Loathing during his "strange memories" passage:
"Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world"
[media]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ozFAjANZc8[/media]

If Jim is right with the information overload, then is abstinence here the best solution? Do we intentionally hold out, bring back the thrill of waiting for that album to drop and skipping our last class to be the first of our friends to get it? Do our friends even "get it"? Maybe he's right in that sense. And you have to give him credit, it seems like he's trying to build a scene the best way he can - collaborations, getting the fans involved, injecting philosophy without coming off dogmatic and Bono-esque.

[Ruckus]

What I'm getting at is not that there's a lack of truly incredible music being made, but it's more like the city states of Greece vs the Roman Empire - there are a lot of strong city state type bands that are these islands of talent, and you have your little islands full of sirens luring you in that are great, but will probably always be somewhat of local legend you whisper about to a visitor.  There's not a massive, cohesive scene, whether it be geographically or commercially, that combines great talent + recognition.

And for what it's worth, the Arcade Fire have a very forgettable sound. I'll give them credit in creating the mood, but they're a band where the songs build but never peak, they just meander along.

To me, it just feels like that a lack of organization causes people to become like the arcade fire - they meander but never go anywhere. They float from island to island/band to band. Maybe it's complacency.

I guess the only thing I feel like we're missing out on from not having that "sound" would be missing out on a feeling like Hunter Thompson described in Fear and Loathing during his "strange memories" passage:
"Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world"
[media]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ozFAjANZc8[/media]

If Jim is right with the information overload, then is abstinence here the best solution? Do we intentionally hold out, bring back the thrill of waiting for that album to drop and skipping our last class to be the first of our friends to get it? Do our friends even "get it"? Maybe he's right in that sense. And you have to give him credit, it seems like he's trying to build a scene the best way he can - collaborations, getting the fans involved, injecting philosophy without coming off dogmatic and Bono-esque.

Wow!  That is convoluted and all over the place (not in a bad way of course).  If you need "recognition", than you will always be searching for the unicorn.  As far as cohesion goes, I agree with PL that musical dispersion in all its localized forms is the now and corresponds with basic sociology 101 concepts that we associate with the smallest commonality that may give us identity.  While we question mainstream music, we never question the monopoly that 3 TV stations and 5 radio stations had in the 60s that produced our Stones and Dylan and Beatles.  If you seek greatness in music in the form of mainstream acceptance, it detracts from the variety and sheer numbers of musicians out there right now that are able to share their art with the public.

I guess I get where you are coming from Chode but I find great music every year and none of it is ever recognized on any large scale.  Music is personal and beautiful and sometimes doesn't require a guitar ;)

[ycartrob]

And for what it's worth, the Arcade Fire have a very forgettable sound. I'll give them credit in creating the mood, but they're a band where the songs build but never peak, they just meander along.

To me, it just feels like that a lack of organization causes people to become like the arcade fire - they meander but never go anywhere. They float from island to island/band to band. Maybe it's complacency.

this is why I cannot stand threads like this. I'm sooo glad I have reached a point in my life where I don't have to argue or justify the music I like. What a waste of breath.

There is abso-fucking-lutely nothing you can say to me to change my opinion about Arcade Fire; I dig them.

And, there is abso-fucking-lutely nothing I can say to you to change your opinion about Arcade Fire.

And there it is.

What I hope for is a day where people will get over themselves enough to realize that their opinions about music are horse shit and don't amount to anything, at all, on any level, other than romanticizing that YOUR music is the best and that YOU understand music more than anyone and that YOU get it and no one else does.

Like, feel pity for me b/c I simply just don't "get" music on the level you do.

You think there is anything, at all, on the planet, that I could say to an Animal Collective fan that would make them UNDERSTAND that they suck?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

What a fucking waste of time.

I own 22 Rush CD's. 22. And I love every one of them, even though some of them meander.

Long Live Rock

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-S5aVuKsgI[/media]

[Ruckus]

And for what it's worth, the Arcade Fire have a very forgettable sound. I'll give them credit in creating the mood, but they're a band where the songs build but never peak, they just meander along.

To me, it just feels like that a lack of organization causes people to become like the arcade fire - they meander but never go anywhere. They float from island to island/band to band. Maybe it's complacency.

this is why I cannot stand threads like this. I'm sooo glad I have reached a point in my life where I don't have to argue or justify the music I like. What a waste of breath.

There is abso-fucking-lutely nothing you can say to me to change my opinion about Arcade Fire; I dig them.

And, there is abso-fucking-lutely nothing I can say to you to change your opinion about Arcade Fire.

And there it is.

What I hope for is a day where people will get over themselves enough to realize that their opinions about music are horse shit and don't amount to anything, at all, on any level, other than romanticizing that YOUR music is the best and that YOU understand music more than anyone and that YOU get it and no one else does.

Like, feel pity for me b/c I simply just don't "get" music on the level you do.

You think there is anything, at all, on the planet, that I could say to an Animal Collective fan that would make them UNDERSTAND that they suck?   ;D ;D ;D ;D

What a fucking waste of time.

I own 22 Rush CD's. 22. And I love every one of them, even though some of them meander.

Long Live Rock

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-S5aVuKsgI[/media]

RUSH BLOWS

[ycartrob]

RUSH BLOWS

Have you heard Vital Signs? Man, that song fucking rocks! I know you would love Rush if you just heard Vital Signs. Maybe you just don't have a firm grasp on what good music is. Send me a list of all your music, and I will tell you

A) what to keep
B) what to get rid of
C) what to buy

see, I understand music, better than most people b/c what I like is the best. I am just like that, but I can help you out.

In the meantime, Vital Signs!
(you're welcome)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z31Uk9BQJus[/media]

[Ruckus]

RUSH BLOWS

Have you heard Vital Signs? Man, that song fucking rocks! I know you would love Rush if you just heard Vital Signs. Maybe you just don't have a firm grasp on what good music is. Send me a list of all your music, and I will tell you

A) what to keep
B) what to get rid of
C) what to buy

see, I understand music, better than most people b/c what I like is the best. I am just like that, but I can help you out.

In the meantime, Vital Signs!
(you're welcome)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z31Uk9BQJus[/media]

;D ;D ;D

Nice.  As I've said before, side 2 of Moving Pictures "IS THE MOST UNDERRATED 20 MINUTES OF MUSIC IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD."

[ycartrob]

Nice.  As I've said before, side 2 of Moving Pictures "IS THE MOST UNDERRATED 20 MINUTES OF MUSIC IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD."

I saw this tour in 81; Jr. in high school. I may have been hiiiiiiigh   ;)
Just listen to the echo in the "concert hall".

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o92nUObIWBI[/media]

[Ruckus]

Oh yeah I forgot.  Camera's Eye kicks Vital Sign's ass IMHO [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

[ycartrob]

here, while I'm at it, how about some more forgettable, meandering, sub-standared music?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwHdrY_pbJI&feature=related[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNFXBWrd4Y[/media]

[Jaimoe]

I think Arcade Fire puts on a better live show than MMJ and Neon Bible is kicks Evil Urges' ass. But hey, it's all a matter of opinion, eh?

Rush went downhill fast after 1982. Bring it on Tracy! All you Rush fans are militant in your love of all things Rush.

The Who's "Long Live Rock" is one of my least favourtie Who songs, and they are my favourite band (along with the Allman Brothers).

[ycartrob]

I think Arcade Fire puts on a better live show than MMJ and Neon Bible is kicks Evil Urges' ass. But hey, it's all a matter of opinion, eh?

Rush went downhill fast after 1982. Bring it on Tracy! All you Rush fans are militant in your love of all things Rush.

The Who's "Long Live Rock" is one of my least favourtie Who songs, and they are my favourite band (along with the Allman Brothers).

I think if you and I spent a couple of weeks together listening to nothing but the post 1982 Rush library you'd come around. You just don't understand music like I do...

[Jaimoe]

I think Arcade Fire puts on a better live show than MMJ and Neon Bible is kicks Evil Urges' ass. But hey, it's all a matter of opinion, eh?

Rush went downhill fast after 1982. Bring it on Tracy! All you Rush fans are militant in your love of all things Rush.

The Who's "Long Live Rock" is one of my least favourtie Who songs, and they are my favourite band (along with the Allman Brothers).

I think if you and I spent a couple of weeks together listening to nothing but the post 1982 Rush library you'd come around. You just don't understand music like I do...

I know a lot of their 80s and 90s library. They are from Toronto so their music is all over the airwaves (and I see Geddy at Blue Jays games - he sits behind home-plate; you can't miss him on TV). My best friend is the biggest Rush fan I know, but even he doesn't endorse their mid and latter career albums. But, he thinks they haven't missed a beat in concert. I agree with that. I think they got less experimental, instrumentally speaking, as they got older. And too many mid-tempo tunes that were often keyboard driven.

[Jaimoe]

P.S.

Would I be able to take "a couple of weeks" of just Rush? I don't know if I could take a couple of weeks of any one band, even The Beatles.