Open Letter to MMJ (Health Care Reform)

[Nikkogino]

Let's get back on track...I didn't want a political discussion on health care.  That's for another forum.  I mainly wanted to discuss the act of bands telling us to go out and support a partisan cause that not only alienates fans, but defeats the purpose of going to a band website as "refreshment" from politics and the like.  


If Jim posted on the website:  "The world needs religion.  We are way off track in the world and the only way to get back on track is to become spiritual again.  And when I say spiritual, I mean spiritual in the Christian way.  That's right...MMJ supports Christianity!  We believe that Christianity is the way to go....it is a peaceful religion and I think you'd all be better off if you'd come with us and worship Christ.  Go to the link below and join!
www.jesuschristismysaviorandheshouldbeyourstoo.com"

Would you support?  Would you be glad that he was "passionate" about something?

[Ruckus]

Let's get back on track...I didn't want a political discussion on health care.  That's for another forum.  I mainly wanted to discuss the act of bands telling us to go out and support a partisan cause that not only alienates fans, but defeats the purpose of going to a band website as "refreshment" from politics and the like.  


If Jim posted on the website:  "The world needs religion.  We are way off track in the world and the only way to get back on track is to become spiritual again.  And when I say spiritual, I mean spiritual in the Christian way.  That's right...MMJ supports Christianity!  We believe that Christianity is the way to go....it is a peaceful religion and I think you'd all be better off if you'd come with us and worship Christ.  Go to the link below and join!
www.jesuschristismysaviorandheshouldbeyourstoo.com"

Would you support?  Would you be glad that he was "passionate" about something?

Generally speaking, no.  Thematic underpinnings of lyrics and the politics of a band do have much to do with my interest in them.  Hence I am surprised by your expressed distaste when their likely political leanings were rather obvious through the years though they are expressed less subtly now with their greater exposure.

I gotta believe Rush might be the only band that I love where I likely have multiple issues with their political stances.

[capt. scotty]

Im not going to read thru this entire thread, but I am SO happy I quit looking in this thread after 2 days.

100 posts in 2 weeks just sounds like trouble and arguments.

[AMightyCaporal]

Let's get back on track...I didn't want a political discussion on health care.  That's for another forum.  I mainly wanted to discuss the act of bands telling us to go out and support a partisan cause that not only alienates fans, but defeats the purpose of going to a band website as "refreshment" from politics and the like.  


If Jim posted on the website:  "The world needs religion.  We are way off track in the world and the only way to get back on track is to become spiritual again.  And when I say spiritual, I mean spiritual in the Christian way.  That's right...MMJ supports Christianity!  We believe that Christianity is the way to go....it is a peaceful religion and I think you'd all be better off if you'd come with us and worship Christ.  Go to the link below and join!
www.jesuschristismysaviorandheshouldbeyourstoo.com"

Would you support?  Would you be glad that he was "passionate" about something?

I would be against what they are saying- I would not agree with them.  I would however, accept that they are exercising their rights as humans to support their beliefs.

[aMillionDreams]

Let's get back on track...I didn't want a political discussion on health care.  That's for another forum.  I mainly wanted to discuss the act of bands telling us to go out and support a partisan cause that not only alienates fans, but defeats the purpose of going to a band website as "refreshment" from politics and the like.  


If Jim posted on the website:  "The world needs religion.  We are way off track in the world and the only way to get back on track is to become spiritual again.  And when I say spiritual, I mean spiritual in the Christian way.  That's right...MMJ supports Christianity!  We believe that Christianity is the way to go....it is a peaceful religion and I think you'd all be better off if you'd come with us and worship Christ.  Go to the link below and join!
www.jesuschristismysaviorandheshouldbeyourstoo.com"

Would you support?  Would you be glad that he was "passionate" about something?

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it".

[Penny Lane]

I gotta believe Rush might be the only band that I love where I likely have multiple issues with their political stances.

Such as?

such as Neil Peart's objectivist stance and love of Ayn Rand (this would have been the point where Tracy yelled at me :-( )

[Nikkogino]

I gotta believe Rush might be the only band that I love where I likely have multiple issues with their political stances.

Such as?

such as Neil Peart's objectivist stance and love of Ayn Rand (this would have been the point where Tracy yelled at me :-( )

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

[Nikkogino]

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

Oh if only the world were that black and white.  But it's not, is it?

I didn't say it was.  But we are beginning to lose our sense of accountability it seems.  Whether it be parenting or being accountable for your checkbook, it seems that people are becoming more and more dependent on an outside force to help them.  I understand that there are people in this country that need help...the system is clogged with bottomfeeders who work the system and depend on the people who bust their ass for a living to provide a paycheck.  I am definitely aware that things are more complicated than Ayn Rand's view of the three types of people (people who are great, people who know greatness but know they can't achieve it, and people who don't know greatness and don't know how to achieve it).  But I think we all need a dose of independence.  Stop complaining about being wronged and do something about it.

I think the main problem in this country right now is that everyone thinks they deserve luxuries.  Even homeless people have i-phones these days.  People go out, buy shit they can't afford, and then wonder why their lives suck so bad.  We need to educate people on the difference between needs and wants.

Note:  I've been rocking an old-school kyocera cell phone for the last 4 years because I make a serious effort to manage my money in order to buy important things like--- health insurance, house payment, etc.  My cell phone makes calls and makes texts.  I can live without the other UNNECESSARY (but flashy) extras.
To do this, I drive a shitty ass truck because it still works.  I don't go out and buy $200 sneakers.  I don't blow my paycheck on jewelery.  It's called responsibility.  

Status is not having a car you can't afford, or a cell phone with internet, or a chain that weighs 900 lbs.  Status and self-pride should be on putting food on your table and buying insurance to anticipate a medical emergency.


It's like the boy who cried wolf.  Their are millions of Americans who don't have health insurance because they choose to spend their money elsewhere.  Of course, this hurts those who really need help.  It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you cater to those who have no reason to be responsible for their own well-being and depend on you and I to foot the bill.

[Ruckus]

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

Oh if only the world were that black and white.  But it's not, is it?

I didn't say it was.  But we are beginning to lose our sense of accountability it seems.  Whether it be parenting or being accountable for your checkbook, it seems that people are becoming more and more dependent on an outside force to help them.  I understand that there are people in this country that need help...the system is clogged with bottomfeeders who work the system and depend on the people who bust their ass for a living to provide a paycheck.  I am definitely aware that things are more complicated than Ayn Rand's view of the three types of people (people who are great, people who know greatness but know they can't achieve it, and people who don't know greatness and don't know how to achieve it).  But I think we all need a dose of independence.  Stop complaining about being wronged and do something about it.

I think the main problem in this country right now is that everyone thinks they deserve luxuries.  Even homeless people have i-phones these days.  People go out, buy shit they can't afford, and then wonder why their lives suck so bad.  We need to educate people on the difference between needs and wants.

Note:  I've been rocking an old-school kyocera cell phone for the last 4 years because I make a serious effort to manage my money in order to buy important things like--- health insurance, house payment, etc.  My cell phone makes calls and makes texts.  I can live without the other UNNECESSARY (but flashy) extras.
To do this, I drive a shitty ass truck because it still works.  I don't go out and buy $200 sneakers.  I don't blow my paycheck on jewelery.  It's called responsibility.  

Status is not having a car you can't afford, or a cell phone with internet, or a chain that weighs 900 lbs.  Status and self-pride should be on putting food on your table and buying insurance to anticipate a medical emergency.


It's like the boy who cried wolf.  Their are millions of Americans who don't have health insurance because they choose to spend their money elsewhere.  Of course, this hurts those who really need help.  It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you cater to those who have no reason to be responsible for their own well-being and depend on you and I to foot the bill.

Do you feel better? ::)  I think you took his black and white comment too seriously :P

$200 sneakers?  900lb chains?  C'mon man

[Nikkogino]

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

Oh if only the world were that black and white.  But it's not, is it?

I didn't say it was.  But we are beginning to lose our sense of accountability it seems.  Whether it be parenting or being accountable for your checkbook, it seems that people are becoming more and more dependent on an outside force to help them.  I understand that there are people in this country that need help...the system is clogged with bottomfeeders who work the system and depend on the people who bust their ass for a living to provide a paycheck.  I am definitely aware that things are more complicated than Ayn Rand's view of the three types of people (people who are great, people who know greatness but know they can't achieve it, and people who don't know greatness and don't know how to achieve it).  But I think we all need a dose of independence.  Stop complaining about being wronged and do something about it.

I think the main problem in this country right now is that everyone thinks they deserve luxuries.  Even homeless people have i-phones these days.  People go out, buy shit they can't afford, and then wonder why their lives suck so bad.  We need to educate people on the difference between needs and wants.

Note:  I've been rocking an old-school kyocera cell phone for the last 4 years because I make a serious effort to manage my money in order to buy important things like--- health insurance, house payment, etc.  My cell phone makes calls and makes texts.  I can live without the other UNNECESSARY (but flashy) extras.
To do this, I drive a shitty ass truck because it still works.  I don't go out and buy $200 sneakers.  I don't blow my paycheck on jewelery.  It's called responsibility.  

Status is not having a car you can't afford, or a cell phone with internet, or a chain that weighs 900 lbs.  Status and self-pride should be on putting food on your table and buying insurance to anticipate a medical emergency.


It's like the boy who cried wolf.  Their are millions of Americans who don't have health insurance because they choose to spend their money elsewhere.  Of course, this hurts those who really need help.  It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you cater to those who have no reason to be responsible for their own well-being and depend on you and I to foot the bill.

Do you feel better? ::)  I think you took his black and white comment too seriously :P

$200 sneakers?  900lb chains?  C'mon man

Ha, yeah I guess I do feel better.

Really though, my time on these boards has been awesome.  Everyone is super nice and respectful of each other even though we have a wide range of opinions.  
This has been a pretty good debate.  However, I still don't necesarilly feel comfy debating healthcare and atlus shrugged on an MMJ message board.  We should all be chilling listening to X-Mas Curtain!  Which is why I prefer it when bands stick to music and not formally support a politicians's cause, which in turn polarizes their community instead of bringing it together.

Let's talk about freaking how badass "Smokin' From Shootin'" is.  That song came out of nowheres.
:D

[Ruckus]

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

Oh if only the world were that black and white.  But it's not, is it?

I didn't say it was.  But we are beginning to lose our sense of accountability it seems.  Whether it be parenting or being accountable for your checkbook, it seems that people are becoming more and more dependent on an outside force to help them.  I understand that there are people in this country that need help...the system is clogged with bottomfeeders who work the system and depend on the people who bust their ass for a living to provide a paycheck.  I am definitely aware that things are more complicated than Ayn Rand's view of the three types of people (people who are great, people who know greatness but know they can't achieve it, and people who don't know greatness and don't know how to achieve it).  But I think we all need a dose of independence.  Stop complaining about being wronged and do something about it.

I think the main problem in this country right now is that everyone thinks they deserve luxuries.  Even homeless people have i-phones these days.  People go out, buy shit they can't afford, and then wonder why their lives suck so bad.  We need to educate people on the difference between needs and wants.

Note:  I've been rocking an old-school kyocera cell phone for the last 4 years because I make a serious effort to manage my money in order to buy important things like--- health insurance, house payment, etc.  My cell phone makes calls and makes texts.  I can live without the other UNNECESSARY (but flashy) extras.
To do this, I drive a shitty ass truck because it still works.  I don't go out and buy $200 sneakers.  I don't blow my paycheck on jewelery.  It's called responsibility.  

Status is not having a car you can't afford, or a cell phone with internet, or a chain that weighs 900 lbs.  Status and self-pride should be on putting food on your table and buying insurance to anticipate a medical emergency.


It's like the boy who cried wolf.  Their are millions of Americans who don't have health insurance because they choose to spend their money elsewhere.  Of course, this hurts those who really need help.  It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you cater to those who have no reason to be responsible for their own well-being and depend on you and I to foot the bill.

Do you feel better? ::)  I think you took his black and white comment too seriously :P

$200 sneakers?  900lb chains?  C'mon man

Ha, yeah I guess I do feel better.

Really though, my time on these boards has been awesome.  Everyone is super nice and respectful of each other even though we have a wide range of opinions.  
This has been a pretty good debate.  However, I still don't necesarilly feel comfy debating healthcare and atlus shrugged on an MMJ message board.  We should all be chilling listening to X-Mas Curtain!  Which is why I prefer it when bands stick to music and not formally support a politicians's cause, which in turn polarizes their community instead of bringing it together.

Let's talk about freaking how badass "Smokin' From Shootin'" is.  That song came out of nowheres.
:D

I feel you man though I don't agree.  Rock n Roll and politics have quite a history in this country don't ya think?  Agree or not, many would find it a duty to utilize new found influence on the masses (as MMJ now has) to facilitate change in a cause that they believe in.

I've never read Rand but I feel I owe it to myself to at least get through Atlas Shrugged.

Where is Tracy anyways?

[AMightyCaporal]

This certainly is not the first time MMJ took a stance on the issues; supporting local, independent businesses.  Supporting woodstock farm animal sanctuary.  Jim performed a concert to get meditation in schools.  These are just three of the most recent.  I think that what they are trying to do, is support causes they think will make the world a better place.  And reconnect the disconnect between us all.  This was a good thing to start- this thread, because it is healthy to debate.  Makes you realize that the human race is comprised of individuals, with individual thoughts, feelings, emotions, and opinions.

People will never fully agree on issues like health care, but once again, just because you are in a band- it doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion.  Polarizing your fans in only one area of their lives.  chances are, you and I, or you and anyone else on this forum have a lot more than our stances on health care that differ. But we do have a lot of similarities as well- one of which being our love of the band, and how much xmas curtain rocks.  and how fucking awesome smokin from shooting is.  ;D Peace and love babies, peace and love!

[songdiver]

Jim knows something we do not.  He wouldn't come out like that and support a politician unless he had inside information concerning the intentions behind the president's message.  shhhh, it's a secret!  Please do not be entirely oblivious to the message in every song Jim has written.
Jim's a smart dude...think inside your brains...go back to my first post on this thread, where I explained everything...maybe ya all should get off your internet and do some thinking and talk to your neighbors.  America will be going through some drastic changes in the very near future.  Educate yourself on self-sustainability now! :D

[Ghosts_on_TV]

Jim knows something we do not.  He wouldn't come out like that and support a politician unless he had inside information concerning the intentions behind the president's message.  shhhh, it's a secret!  Please do not be entirely oblivious to the message in every song Jim has written.
Jim's a smart dude...think inside your brains...go back to my first post on this thread, where I explained everything...maybe ya all should get off your internet and do some thinking and talk to your neighbors.  America will be going through some drastic changes in the very near future.  Educate yourself on self-sustainability now! :D

It's kinda funny that you posted something on the internet telling us to get off of the internet.  ;D

Oh, excuse me, "OUR" internet.

[AMightyCaporal]

Jim knows something we do not.  He wouldn't come out like that and support a politician unless he had inside information concerning the intentions behind the president's message.  shhhh, it's a secret!  Please do not be entirely oblivious to the message in every song Jim has written.
Jim's a smart dude...think inside your brains...go back to my first post on this thread, where I explained everything...maybe ya all should get off your internet and do some thinking and talk to your neighbors.  America will be going through some drastic changes in the very near future.  Educate yourself on self-sustainability now! :D

It's kinda funny that you posted something on the internet telling us to get off of the internet.  ;D

Oh, excuse me, "OUR" internet.

I think its only this guys internet (ps: joke is only funny if you've seen all the matrix movies- if you haven't, please, carry on)

[Penny Lane]

1.  Our money has NO value.  ZERO!!!  Get off your hipster/poser ass and go educate yourself about the Federal Reserve and find out how they robbed us blind and continue to enslave us.
2.  The corporations run this world.  If you don't understand how serious this is, then you are fully endoctrinated into the system.
3.  Because our currency is worth nothing, we need to push for a health care system that covers everyone.  The money is fake anyway, so it doesn't even matter how much "it costs."  
4.  Once people become more aware to the truth that our government has sold us out to the corporations, we will overthrow everyone in perceived power and have full anarchy or a resource-based economy in which we will thrive beyond the current imagination that has been implanted in us by the school systems.
.

Was this message on Highly Suspicious? Because i definitely didn't get the warning about the Fed Reserve on The Librarian. i was just wonderin' I think Jim is just trying to support equality in healthcare but if you think it's something else, can you point me in some lyrical direction?

[Willy]

I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

politics!!!!

[Dudley]

This is the exact reason i will only check for tour dates on this website.. Jim has lost so much of my respect.. He is simply a musician.. He should act like one.. Get your messages accross via music.. We don't follow your band because you're a liberal.. We do because you make good tunes.. And it's got me wondering.. Instead of making albums you 5 sit around reading 1000 page bills? Maybe you're in the wrong profession.. Because even most of the Senators and Representatives have admitted to not reading the entire bill.. So that must take some determination.. Hope you really do know what you're supporting.. Because i honestly believe you don't..

[NoVa_NoLa]

Without getting too into the Objectivist shit...

Ayn Rand believed in individual rights and most importantly the concept of individual responsibility.....not allowing government to do everything for you.  Don't necessarily see what is wrong with that.  Unless you believe that a person has the right to be a piece of shit and be given a handout.

Oh if only the world were that black and white.  But it's not, is it?

I didn't say it was.  But we are beginning to lose our sense of accountability it seems.  Whether it be parenting or being accountable for your checkbook, it seems that people are becoming more and more dependent on an outside force to help them.  I understand that there are people in this country that need help...the system is clogged with bottomfeeders who work the system and depend on the people who bust their ass for a living to provide a paycheck.  I am definitely aware that things are more complicated than Ayn Rand's view of the three types of people (people who are great, people who know greatness but know they can't achieve it, and people who don't know greatness and don't know how to achieve it).  But I think we all need a dose of independence.  Stop complaining about being wronged and do something about it.

I think the main problem in this country right now is that everyone thinks they deserve luxuries.  Even homeless people have i-phones these days.  People go out, buy shit they can't afford, and then wonder why their lives suck so bad.  We need to educate people on the difference between needs and wants.

Note:  I've been rocking an old-school kyocera cell phone for the last 4 years because I make a serious effort to manage my money in order to buy important things like--- health insurance, house payment, etc.  My cell phone makes calls and makes texts.  I can live without the other UNNECESSARY (but flashy) extras.
To do this, I drive a shitty ass truck because it still works.  I don't go out and buy $200 sneakers.  I don't blow my paycheck on jewelery.  It's called responsibility.  

Status is not having a car you can't afford, or a cell phone with internet, or a chain that weighs 900 lbs.  Status and self-pride should be on putting food on your table and buying insurance to anticipate a medical emergency.


It's like the boy who cried wolf.  Their are millions of Americans who don't have health insurance because they choose to spend their money elsewhere.  Of course, this hurts those who really need help.  It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you cater to those who have no reason to be responsible for their own well-being and depend on you and I to foot the bill.

Oi...this is an interesting post.  Very directed at gov't involvement in what should be an individuals' personal responsibility, when it seems that the gov't bailouts and most recent intrusions where/are not to do with the individual, but business instead.

At the risk of sounding silly and giving you a perfectly good opportunity to make stuff up, do you actually know people who don't have the means and buy $200 sneakers?  Or don't have the means and buy 900lb. chains?  I mean, I see that show on MTV about the kids whose parents have really fancy houses, multiple cars, etc.  Those folks are likely mortgaged from here to forever for all that stuff!  Is that who you're talking about here?  Jonas Bros. types with out the fame, but some of the fortune?  Surely, people buying sneakers aren't to blame for the HUGE mess we are in...right?

I'm not sure about you, but the (financially) working poor people I've known and know, quite frankly can't buy $200 sneakers or big jewelry.  I mean, Foot Locker isn't really accepting food stamps in lieu of cash/credit.  

I guess my only point is that you seem to need someone to blame for the world's sorrows (or some of them).  My only suggestion would be to apply reality (as in people, events, things from a real experience, not a TV show or magazine article) before letting yourself get too far.

And if it so happens that you do happen to know real folks who you think can't or shouldn't afford a new cell phone (I have a brand new one, by the way.  Got it for $.01 on Amazon; previous phone was 7 years old), give them a little bit of your wisdom.  Share the wealth!  (pun intended...wealth of knowledge!)  But don't believe the hype!  ;)

As for your original...I still think it's OK for a band or a member of a band to post political/theological/fanatical/inspirational...etc.  stuff on their website.  I like knowing where people stand...I guess it doesn't just have to be music for me.  I guess I enjoy knowing that they are still part of the "regular" world...dealing with the same crap that we're dealing with or thinking about.  When I visit here I'm not trying to escape anything...it's more like I'm trying to get in to something.  And around here that something can (and tends to be) just about anything.   :)

[Ghosts_on_TV]

This is the exact reason i will only check for tour dates on this website.. Jim has lost so much of my respect.. He is simply a musician.. He should act like one.. Get your messages accross via music.. We don't follow your band because you're a liberal.. We do because you make good tunes.. And it's got me wondering.. Instead of making albums you 5 sit around reading 1000 page bills? Maybe you're in the wrong profession.. Because even most of the Senators and Representatives have admitted to not reading the entire bill.. So that must take some determination.. Hope you really do know what you're supporting.. Because i honestly believe you don't..

You act like Pharma is throwing Jim and the gang crazy amounts of money to post that little blip on MMJ.com. It's very plain to see that they believe that EVERYONE deserves decent health care ( Th
ey do, BTW), and not some political stunt. Oh Dear! My Morning Jacket actually give a shit about people!  Fuck them!  ::) Besides, without a single payer system this whole "reform" is fucking useless anyways. Chill out.