The NFL Thread: 2011

[Ruckus]

Yeah it could get ugly for you guys.  I can't speculate on the prevalence of bounties but surely the Saints aren't the only ones still doing it.  That said, if it was the Steelers getting busted instead of the Saints... ;D ;D ;D ;)

[Tracy 2112]

That said, if it was the Steelers getting busted instead of the Saints... ;D ;D ;D ;)

Well, if it were the Steelers, it would be an improvement from their past behaviors and I would applaud them. I just expect more from the Saints.

[ManNamedTruth]

It's funny that people still criticize the Steelers when something has nothing to do with them. How about the Ravens who have openly talked to the media about having bounties on Steelers players?

In case you missed it or forgot -
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/75056-ravens-bounty-talk-angers-steelers

[Hawkeye]

So Peyton is a free agent...where's he going?  Will be interesting.  No pressure on Andrew Luck  ::)

[iLikeBeer]

So Peyton is a free agent...where's he going?  Will be interesting.  No pressure on Andrew Luck  ::)

Well, as a Browns fan hoping like hell to wing the RG3 sweepstakes, I'm hoping crazy ass Dan Snyder goes all in for Manning so that the Browns won't have to give up every draft pick for the next 5 years to out bid that crazy ass for the #2 pick from the Rams. 

[Ruckus]

So Peyton is a free agent...where's he going?  Will be interesting.  No pressure on Andrew Luck  ::)

Well, as a Browns fan hoping like hell to wing the RG3 sweepstakes, I'm hoping crazy ass Dan Snyder goes all in for Manning so that the Browns won't have to give up every draft pick for the next 5 years to out bid that crazy ass for the #2 pick from the Rams.

So Peyton won't play for an NFC East team?  Sooo the Redskins will be bidding with your beloved for RGIII or maybe even Luck?

A green jersey awaits you Mr. Manning

[iLikeBeer]

So Peyton is a free agent...where's he going?  Will be interesting.  No pressure on Andrew Luck  ::)

Well, as a Browns fan hoping like hell to wing the RG3 sweepstakes, I'm hoping crazy ass Dan Snyder goes all in for Manning so that the Browns won't have to give up every draft pick for the next 5 years to out bid that crazy ass for the #2 pick from the Rams.

So Peyton won't play for an NFC East team?  Sooo the Redskins will be bidding with your beloved for RGIII or maybe even Luck?

A green jersey awaits you Mr. Manning

You mean your not in love with Mr. GQ???   :P

[ManNamedTruth]

Denver,  Miami, or Arizona look like the most obvious spots for Manning after that Washington trade. Sorry Cleveland fans but I don't see Peyton wanting to play for such a bad team. Didn't Jets recently re-sign Sanchez ruckus? It will be interesting to see if Wayne and/or Clark follow Peyton to wherever he goes.

[Ruckus]

Denver,  Miami, or Arizona look like the most obvious spots for Manning after that Washington trade. Sorry Cleveland fans but I don't see Peyton wanting to play for such a bad team. Didn't Jets recently re-sign Sanchez ruckus? It will be interesting to see if Wayne and/or Clark follow Peyton to wherever he goes.

Yeah the Jets resigned Sanchez yesterday.  I posted the above 4 days ago.

Hey ILB.  Who had a worse weekend?  Browns fans or Jets fans? ;D  I understand why the Jets extended Sanchez because they felt it was a bargain considering what a veteran qb makes in the NFL.  That said, something needs to light a fire under his ass.  The coddling has to stop. 

What do the Browns do now?  Tannehill?  The Skins gave up quite the bounty.  I am however excited for my girlfriend, a Skins fan, who finally has something to cheer for short and long term.

[iLikeBeer]

Good question Ruckus!   ;D

I didn't like reading Cleveland's GM stating that they still believe in Colt McCoy?!  Really???  This is not good news from where I'm sitting.  I have yet to see anything from Colt McCoy that leaves me confident in believing he can bring the Browns back to relevance...

As for RG3, I am also glad that the Browns didn't try to get into a bidding war with the madman that is Dan Snyder.  Yes, RG3 was a dynamic player in college and everyone seems to think he will be a great pro, but the bottom line is, he is unproven in the pros and the Redskins paid a pretty steep price to get him.  The Browns have WAY too many needs, and IMO, the Redskins have a ton of needs as well, so you have to wonder if giving up that many first rounders to get one player is really worth it?

As for where the Browns go, I'm hoping Blackmon will be there at 4 and that would be a good start.  The Browns are in dire need of receivers.  Also, they should be able to get a solid player at 22 as well.  I've also heard the Browns might try and go after Matt Flynn as a free agent to help in the QB department but I'm hoping they don't overspend to get him either.  Maybe the Browns can suck one more year and Denard Robinson will blow up his senior year and they can draft him at QB next year!   8)  What am I saying maybe for?  We know the Browns will still suck next year!   >:(

[NoVa_NoLa]

Wow...Sean Payton got suspended for 1 year! 

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/new_orleans_saints_are_penaliz.html

New Orleans Saints Coach Sean Payton suspended for 1 year
03/21/12 12:28PM
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James Varney, The Times-Picayune
 The NFL has suspended New Orleans Saints Coach Sean Payton for a full year following an investigation into a bounty program the league said the Saints employed from 2009 to 2011, according to internet reports.

Payton's suspension is supposed to begin on April 1.

New Orleans general manager Mickey Loomis was also hit with an 8-game suspension and fined $500,000. Former defensive coordiantor Gregg Williams, now with the Rams, has been suspended indefinitely.

Assistant head coach/linebackers coach Joe Vitt was hit with a 6-game suspension without pay as well.

The team loses the second round pick in this year's draft as well as a second-round pick in next year's draft and will be fined $500,000.

The punishments come against a backdrop of looming litigation. A growing number of players have filed lawsuits against the NFL and various equipment makers, alleging the parties were insufficiently diligent in making player safety a priority. Goodell has made it clear he wants player safety to be a hallmark of his time as commissioner, pushing for rules changes that protect players on the field and levying heavy fines against players for hits ruled too savage.

The report Goodell and the league issued on the Saints March 2 could be seen as another important step in that campaign. In addition, there was widespread speculation the penalties imposed on New Orleans would be severe as the league looked to send a message.

Since March 2 several players came forward to say "pay for performance" systems were far from unheard of in the NFL, although all of them drew a distinction between bonuses for high-impact plays like interceptions or recovered fumbles and plays seeking to injure an opponent.

It was that latter element the NFL alleged comprised part of the Saints' operations and thus made it particularly malevolent. Although the league carefully guarded its evidence, Goodell and NFL officials claim to have sorted through some 18,000 documents, whose veracity was established by "forensic experts," and "multiple independent sources."

That investigation proved, most tellingly, that there was a lack of institutional control in New Orleans. Tuesday's penalties also fall under the "conduct detrimental" standard that gives the commissioner wide latitude.

[Jane]

i'm actually surprised at Paytons suspension not so much about everything else.

i'm also surprise that Tebow is now a JET. Ruckus, whatchu think?

[Ruckus]

I am likely one of the few Jets fans that immediately approved of this trade when it was first prematurely announced.  I'm not a huge Tebow fan so much as I am highly entertained by him.  Nonetheless, we gave up what amounts to a 4th round pick for a solid backup quarterback that can really help us in short yardage situations and other unique packages.  As for the hype and NFL drooling over storyline side of it, I find it amusing.  I'll always cheer for that deranged Tebow.  He's hilarious! ;D

I'm sorry to Sassbox, Nova, and Tracy but I think Goodell had it right this time around.  The NFL has to protect itself from future litigation and the owners know this.  The Saints halo is gone.  The 2 2nd rounders will hurt more than the loss of Payton because solely for its long term effect.  I always liked Payton, but there was always a smugness about him that makes more sense to me now.  I hope players understand that tweeting about the unfairness of Goodell can only hurt them.  The only unfair part of this is the raw deal the Rams got.  They really have no recourse and now all the top coordinators are off the market.  The NFL really handcuffed them there with the Gregg Williams situation.

[iLikeBeer]

I am likely one of the few Jets fans that immediately approved of this trade when it was first prematurely announced.  I'm not a huge Tebow fan so much as I am highly entertained by him.  Nonetheless, we gave up what amounts to a 4th round pick for a solid backup quarterback that can really help us in short yardage situations and other unique packages.  As for the hype and NFL drooling over storyline side of it, I find it amusing.  I'll always cheer for that deranged Tebow.  He's hilarious! ;D

Ruckus, do you really think this will end well for Sanchez?  I mean, that dude is already a headcase and his teammates were hardly behind him as their season unravelled last year.  The QB has to be the leader of the locker room and I just don't see that from Sanchez.  My question is, what happens if the Jets and Sanchez struggle out of the gates next year and the fickle NY fans start calling for Tebow to start just like Broncos fans did in Denver last season? 

The problem for your Jets is that they have too many players that can't seem to figure out how to keep their mouths (tweets) quiet.  I mean, there are already players tweeting about how they don't like the move to trade for Tebow.   And is it really all that surprising to see a locker room full of opinionated players who can't seem to keep their opinions in the locker room where they belong when they have the most opinionated and loud mouth head coach in the NFL?

I'm sorry to Sassbox, Nova, and Tracy but I think Goodell had it right this time around.  The NFL has to protect itself from future litigation and the owners know this.  The Saints halo is gone.  The 2 2nd rounders will hurt more than the loss of Payton because solely for its long term effect.  I always liked Payton, but there was always a smugness about him that makes more sense to me now.  I hope players understand that tweeting about the unfairness of Goodell can only hurt them.  The only unfair part of this is the raw deal the Rams got.  They really have no recourse and now all the top coordinators are off the market.  The NFL really handcuffed them there with the Gregg Williams situation.

I totally agree.  The evidence against Payton is pretty damning.  He was warned multiple times and there is an email trail that shows he was aware of the bounties going on AFTER multiple warnings from the commissioner's office!

No longer are the Saints the darlings of the NFL.  Can we start referring them as the 'Aints' again???

[Tracy 2112]

I don't understand the "warning" part, which leads me to believe other teams were participating with their own bounty systems and it was probably standard practice for years. You're going to "warn" me about an offense so horrendous that if I have to keep "warning" you about it then you'll be suspended for a year? How about you suspend them for a year the first time you find out about it? Want to send a message? Do that.

As for calling them the "aint's" I wouldn't do that just yet. The year we won the SB, we were a below average defensive team and last year we just sucked, ranked in the bottom of just about every category (that's WITH a one of a kind, unique to the lead, we're the only one's doing it, bounty system). It's our offense that brought the title and they'll be there next year with some chips on their shoulders, eh?

[NoVa_NoLa]

I'm sorry to Sassbox, Nova, and Tracy but I think Goodell had it right this time around.  The NFL has to protect itself from future litigation and the owners know this.  The Saints halo is gone.  The 2 2nd rounders will hurt more than the loss of Payton because solely for its long term effect.  I always liked Payton, but there was always a smugness about him that makes more sense to me now.  I hope players understand that tweeting about the unfairness of Goodell can only hurt them.  The only unfair part of this is the raw deal the Rams got.  They really have no recourse and now all the top coordinators are off the market.  The NFL really handcuffed them there with the Gregg Williams situation.

No worries here. 

The way that I read the NFL findings was that the Saints were given every chance to suspend the program. Time and time again, the Saints were found to still have the program.  Payton and everyone else except Benson(!) lied over and over again. 

Is the penalty harsh?  Yes.  Too harsh?  I don't know.  I have no real love for Goodell -- I'm a Steelers fan first.  James Harrison, anyone? -- but from what I've read he gave the Saints every chance to discontinue the program. 

Regarding the "everybody does it" charge, I don't disagree.  What I do disagree with is the notion that other teams weren't investigated.  I don't believe that Goodell went to the Ravens, discussed the multiple bounties that were placed on Roethlisberger  ;), and that the Ravens willfully disregarded Goodell's warnings. 

What I'm saying is, that from what I've read, no other team tried to play Goodell like he was some sort of middle school punk.  You've got a commissioner who, from his first days, has not been shy about dishing out penalties and this is what you do...when you're guilty and everyone knows it?

Payton was wrong.  He cost the Saints, not Goodell.  My only regret is that Benson didn't get tied up in this somehow. 

I think Williams should get a lifetime ban...apologies to the Rams.

[Tracy 2112]

I think Williams should get a lifetime ban...apologies to the Rams.

Williams should have gotten a lifetime ban for his horrendous last minute D choices against the Niners in the playoffs.

[iLikeBeer]

No worries here. 

The way that I read the NFL findings was that the Saints were given every chance to suspend the program. Time and time again, the Saints were found to still have the program.  Payton and everyone else except Benson(!) lied over and over again. 

Is the penalty harsh?  Yes.  Too harsh?  I don't know.  I have no real love for Goodell -- I'm a Steelers fan first.  James Harrison, anyone? -- but from what I've read he gave the Saints every chance to discontinue the program. 

Regarding the "everybody does it" charge, I don't disagree.  What I do disagree with is the notion that other teams weren't investigated.  I don't believe that Goodell went to the Ravens, discussed the multiple bounties that were placed on Roethlisberger  ;), and that the Ravens willfully disregarded Goodell's warnings. 

What I'm saying is, that from what I've read, no other team tried to play Goodell like he was some sort of middle school punk.  You've got a commissioner who, from his first days, has not been shy about dishing out penalties and this is what you do...when you're guilty and everyone knows it?

Payton was wrong.  He cost the Saints, not Goodell.  My only regret is that Benson didn't get tied up in this somehow. 

I think Williams should get a lifetime ban...apologies to the Rams.

Good post Nova.  One thing that frustrates me is when fans argue that everyone else is doing it so they should all be punished.   While I have a hard time believing this wasn't going on at other teams, it was the extent, knowledge of it and the blatant disregard  to try and stop it from the HC, the DC and the GM that has the Saints in the spot of bother they are in.  They are the ones that got caught and I think Goodell is doing his best to ensure that, if this sort of bounty system is going on at other teams, it will now give teams something to think long and hard about if they choose to continue rewarding bounties.

To me, the punishments may have been a bit harsh, but at the same time, I feel that the Saints deserved every bit of it.  They knew Goodell's rep as being a hardass and they chose to thumb their noses at him anyway and he is just letting them know they made the wrong choice in doing what they did and he is also letting it known to other teams to not choose to go down the path of the Saints or they too will feel Goodell's wrath...

[Tracy 2112]

They are the ones that got caught and I think Goodell is doing his best to ensure that, if this sort of bounty system is going on at other teams, it will now give teams something to think long and hard about if they choose to continue rewarding bounties.

My point exactly. If we catch you doing this> HAVING A BOUNTY SYSTEM TO INJURE OPPOSING PLAYERS, we will give you a warning that you need to stop. That really doesn't drive home the "magnitude" of Goodell's feelings about this.

I don't know; there's just more to this story than we'll ever know and I stand by my idea Goodell obviously knew about it and it was going to go public, so he had to save face and come down hard when he is the one to blame for doing nothing more than give a warning.

In the real world, you don't get a warning after you try to assault someone. You get a warning for speeding, but if you get caught speeding again, they don't send you to jail.

I am in no way, shape or form defending my beloved Saints, but something stinks... ::)

[Jaimoe]

The great Reg Dunlop (Paul Newman) was a big fan of bounties back in his Slap Shot days...

Reggie Dunlop and Tim McKracken