Occupy Wall Street

[Jon T.]

Rage Against The Machine - Sleep Now In The Fire

[ALady]

and I must say the OWS movement is a lot easier to laugh at than the Tea Party folks (I mean seriously)

I think the difference is that the OWS folks have a sense of humor.

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

If anyone wants a good laugh check this out....

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-ows-demands/

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately.

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.

End the 'War on Drugs'.

Man, some of this is good material.


And yes I know its just a forum post and not official OWS release, but some of those items truly are laughable.

[Jaimoe]

I agree with some of those demands, but not to the extent of the more extreme examples.

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

I agree with lots of those demands, but not to the extent of some of the more extreme examples.

I've bolded the ones I believe are just absolutely ludicrous.

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately.

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.

End the 'War on Drugs'.

[Jaimoe]

Yeah, some of those points are crazy. However I'm for unions, but they are not a good fit in all aspects of society. Interesting theory though.

Minimum wage should be increased. In my province of Ontario, minimum wage is $10.25/hr, but I'd like to see it go up to $15 given inflation and the cost of living.

I already get 6 weeks paid, but I think most should be entitled to some sort of paid vacation, even if it's a weekend.

Equal funding for campaigns paid by taxpayers? Interesting notion. It certainly would even the playing field and keep politicians more accountable.

Lowering retirement age would only work if social sercurity benefits were raised. However, the mess in Greece and Italy makes this prospect seem rather foolish. But, social security benefits in the US should be raised.

I'm for abolishing the death penalty (the death penalty is not a deterrent). And if you released all death row inmates into regular prison, it would seal the fate of many of the perps: What con wouldn't want to knock off a child killer or celeb such as Charles Manson etc...? Then again, I wouldn't shed any tears.

I wish there were a gun ban across the board, except for registered hunters. But since the US is armed more than any country in the world, it would be impossible to root out all the guns and something tells me that criminals would still have the upper hand. 

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

Yeah, some of those points are crazy. However I'm for unions, but they are not a good fit in all aspects of society. Interesting theory though.

Minimum wage should be increased. In my province of Ontario, minimum wage is $10.25/hr, but I'd like to see it go up to $15 given inflation and the cost of living.

I already get 6 weeks paid, but I think most should be entitled to some sort of paid vacation, even if it's a weekend.

Equal funding for campaigns paid by taxpayers? Interesting notion. It certainly would even the playing field and keep politicians more accountable.

Lowering retirement age would only work if social sercurity benefits were raised. However, the mess in Greece and Italy makes this prospect seem rather foolish. But, social security benefits in the US should be raised.

I'm for abolishing the death penalty (the death penalty is not a deterrent). And if you released all death row inmates into regular prison, it would seal the fate of many of the perps: What con wouldn't want to knock off a child killer or celeb such as Charles Manson etc...?

I wish there were a gun ban across the board, except for registered hunters. But since the US is armed more than any country in the world, it would be impossible to root out all the guns and something tells me that criminals would still have the upper hand.

My major concern with this list is that many of those proposals fly right in the face of the constitution.

I'm all for raising the minimum wage to a more realistic living wage, but a maximum wage? What about contractors who, for example, are employed by a company who provides their services to a government agency. If the maximum wage was $90/hr, even the most generous corporation would only pay that employee $60-70/hr.

I'm against a gun ban for a multitude of personal, logistic, and legal reasons. Criminals will always get guns, laws have never stopped them before. If I want to use my own legally purchased firearms to shoot some holes in paper targets with my grandpop (which I do) how am I harming anyone or anything?

I am all for a death penalty ban. It isn't a deterrent, it is overly expensive, and most importantly the state kills innocent people far too often. Life in prison should stay in place.

[Jaimoe]

Yeah, some of those points are crazy. However I'm for unions, but they are not a good fit in all aspects of society. Interesting theory though.

Minimum wage should be increased. In my province of Ontario, minimum wage is $10.25/hr, but I'd like to see it go up to $15 given inflation and the cost of living.

I already get 6 weeks paid, but I think most should be entitled to some sort of paid vacation, even if it's a weekend.

Equal funding for campaigns paid by taxpayers? Interesting notion. It certainly would even the playing field and keep politicians more accountable.

Lowering retirement age would only work if social sercurity benefits were raised. However, the mess in Greece and Italy makes this prospect seem rather foolish. But, social security benefits in the US should be raised.

I'm for abolishing the death penalty (the death penalty is not a deterrent). And if you released all death row inmates into regular prison, it would seal the fate of many of the perps: What con wouldn't want to knock off a child killer or celeb such as Charles Manson etc...?

I wish there were a gun ban across the board, except for registered hunters. But since the US is armed more than any country in the world, it would be impossible to root out all the guns and something tells me that criminals would still have the upper hand.

My major concern with this list is that many of those proposals fly right in the face of the constitution.

I'm all for raising the minimum wage to a more realistic living wage, but a maximum wage? What about contractors who, for example, are employed by a company who provides their services to a government agency. If the maximum wage was $90/hr, even the most generous corporation would only pay that employee $60-70/hr.

I'm against a gun ban for a multitude of personal, logistic, and legal reasons. Criminals will always get guns, laws have never stopped them before. If I want to use my own legally purchased firearms to shoot some holes in paper targets with my grandpop (which I do) how am I harming anyone or anything?

I am all for a death penalty ban. It isn't a deterrent, it is overly expensive, and most importantly the state kills innocent people far too often. Life in prison should stay in place.

I know I'll never be able to convince a pro-gun American to go along with a gun ban. Heck, I'm not actually anti-guns since I'm ok with hunters. I'm not even a pacifist: I'm a card-carrying non-pacifist tree-hugger. But there's far too many guns in households in the US and pulling a trigger has become a far too easy solution. In a perfect world, there wouldn't be any guns. But this isn't a perfect world. 

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

Yeah, some of those points are crazy. However I'm for unions, but they are not a good fit in all aspects of society. Interesting theory though.

Minimum wage should be increased. In my province of Ontario, minimum wage is $10.25/hr, but I'd like to see it go up to $15 given inflation and the cost of living.

I already get 6 weeks paid, but I think most should be entitled to some sort of paid vacation, even if it's a weekend.

Equal funding for campaigns paid by taxpayers? Interesting notion. It certainly would even the playing field and keep politicians more accountable.

Lowering retirement age would only work if social sercurity benefits were raised. However, the mess in Greece and Italy makes this prospect seem rather foolish. But, social security benefits in the US should be raised.

I'm for abolishing the death penalty (the death penalty is not a deterrent). And if you released all death row inmates into regular prison, it would seal the fate of many of the perps: What con wouldn't want to knock off a child killer or celeb such as Charles Manson etc...?

I wish there were a gun ban across the board, except for registered hunters. But since the US is armed more than any country in the world, it would be impossible to root out all the guns and something tells me that criminals would still have the upper hand.

My major concern with this list is that many of those proposals fly right in the face of the constitution.

I'm all for raising the minimum wage to a more realistic living wage, but a maximum wage? What about contractors who, for example, are employed by a company who provides their services to a government agency. If the maximum wage was $90/hr, even the most generous corporation would only pay that employee $60-70/hr.

I'm against a gun ban for a multitude of personal, logistic, and legal reasons. Criminals will always get guns, laws have never stopped them before. If I want to use my own legally purchased firearms to shoot some holes in paper targets with my grandpop (which I do) how am I harming anyone or anything?

I am all for a death penalty ban. It isn't a deterrent, it is overly expensive, and most importantly the state kills innocent people far too often. Life in prison should stay in place.

I know I'll never be able to convince a pro-gun American to go along with a gun ban. Heck, I'm not actually anti-guns since I'm ok with hunters. But there's far too many guns in households in the US and pulling a trigger has become a far too easy solution. In a perfect world, there wouldn't be any guns. But this isn't a perfect world.

I hope I don't come off as some pro-gun nutjob  ;D

I don't ever carry, and I know that some people just don't like them or just don't want to be around them. Some more extreme pro-gun people think that everyone should carry at all times to protect themselves, but that's just as terrible an idea as an outright ban. But this is America, and the Contitution protects our rights to make decisions for ourselves. Too many items on that list completely eliminate our right to make a decision, or a businesses right to make a decision (ie: union labor, leadership).

[Jaimoe]

Yeah, some of those points are crazy. However I'm for unions, but they are not a good fit in all aspects of society. Interesting theory though.

Minimum wage should be increased. In my province of Ontario, minimum wage is $10.25/hr, but I'd like to see it go up to $15 given inflation and the cost of living.

I already get 6 weeks paid, but I think most should be entitled to some sort of paid vacation, even if it's a weekend.

Equal funding for campaigns paid by taxpayers? Interesting notion. It certainly would even the playing field and keep politicians more accountable.

Lowering retirement age would only work if social sercurity benefits were raised. However, the mess in Greece and Italy makes this prospect seem rather foolish. But, social security benefits in the US should be raised.

I'm for abolishing the death penalty (the death penalty is not a deterrent). And if you released all death row inmates into regular prison, it would seal the fate of many of the perps: What con wouldn't want to knock off a child killer or celeb such as Charles Manson etc...?

I wish there were a gun ban across the board, except for registered hunters. But since the US is armed more than any country in the world, it would be impossible to root out all the guns and something tells me that criminals would still have the upper hand.

My major concern with this list is that many of those proposals fly right in the face of the constitution.

I'm all for raising the minimum wage to a more realistic living wage, but a maximum wage? What about contractors who, for example, are employed by a company who provides their services to a government agency. If the maximum wage was $90/hr, even the most generous corporation would only pay that employee $60-70/hr.

I'm against a gun ban for a multitude of personal, logistic, and legal reasons. Criminals will always get guns, laws have never stopped them before. If I want to use my own legally purchased firearms to shoot some holes in paper targets with my grandpop (which I do) how am I harming anyone or anything?

I am all for a death penalty ban. It isn't a deterrent, it is overly expensive, and most importantly the state kills innocent people far too often. Life in prison should stay in place.

I know I'll never be able to convince a pro-gun American to go along with a gun ban. Heck, I'm not actually anti-guns since I'm ok with hunters. But there's far too many guns in households in the US and pulling a trigger has become a far too easy solution. In a perfect world, there wouldn't be any guns. But this isn't a perfect world.

I hope I don't come off as some pro-gun nutjob  ;D

I don't ever carry, and I know that some people just don't like them or just don't want to be around them. Some more extreme pro-gun people think that everyone should carry at all times to protect themselves, but that's just as terrible an idea as an outright ban. But this is America, and the Contitution protects our rights to make decisions for ourselves. Too many items on that list completely eliminate our right to make a decision, or a businesses right to make a decision (ie: union labor, leadership).

No, you probably are in the norm regarding attitudes towards guns in the US. It's inherent. If you were raised in another country you'd probably look at things quite a bit differently.

I look at big business this way: if it could get away with having little to ZERO employess, it would. Like 'em or not, unions look out for everyone's interests and make the playing field fair. Of course, there's always a few union workers that abuse the system (I work with several in the broadcasting field), but I wouldn't want the alternative. And, since I make more money than non-union workers in my field, I tend to spend more on taxes, in supporting local businesses and give more to charities. The middle class have to be the backbone of a stable world and equal and far wages are essential. Oh, and I don't consider myself a lefty compared to others in my country - I'm more left of centre  :)

[el_chode]

Since NJ banned assault weapons, extended magazines, dum dum and hollow points, and really any and all concealed carry permits, gun violence has essentially disappeared.

In a more serious tone, I don't understand why people must be so binary and all-or-none "if it works for me, it therefore works for everyone".

Some of those bullet points are good, but other ones border on pure ignorance.

I think OWS best argument is summed up like this:

This country is/was on the brink of collapse, yet almost nothing has changed. Over the past decade people have a general feeling that life is changing for the worse and in ways beyond simply hits to the wallet. They feel less secure despite more security, less free despite the promise of preserving the way of the land of the free. Banks are bigger than ever and the risk of failure is just as strong. CEOs at these institutions claim that to remain profitable they must nickle and dime those at the very bottom while letting those at the middle and top coast along, then demand multi-million dollar bonuses (which in one form or another is a form of a redistribution of wealth). The political system by, for, and of the people seems less transparent than ever and by, for, and of the corporate entity that rigs the political system to rig the economic system.

Everything else is tertiary and a scapegoat. If you bought a house you couldn't afford it's your fault just as much as the bank for thinking it was a good idea to give you that cheap money. You both are owed a penalty, not a reprieve.

Minimum wage is meaningless so long as China, India, and Brazil are cheap. The more the cost of labor rises here, the more domestic jobs we'll see shipped overseas. That's not an argument against a living wage, it's an argument against our current policy on job growth.

[woodnymph]

I enjoy knowing that thousands of people apparently marched across the Brooklyn Bridge, and someone projected a huge display on the side of the Verizon building too  8)

Regardless of what it "means" or "changes" or "doesn't change" or any other description people may want to immediately give it, I really love seeing people acting up   :D

Pro Occupy Wall Street Messages Projected on the Verizon Building

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

Since NJ banned assault weapons, extended magazines, dum dum and hollow points, and really any and all concealed carry permits, gun violence has essentially disappeared.

Not exactly. In fact, the opposite.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states.

On the other hand.... you couldn't be more right about this....

Minimum wage is meaningless so long as China, India, and Brazil are cheap. The more the cost of labor rises here, the more domestic jobs we'll see shipped overseas. That's not an argument against a living wage, it's an argument against our current policy on job growth.

If our current policy on job growth remains the same, the only jobs left will be ones that are impossible to ship oversees, or will be outright replaced (self-checkouts, mail-order pharmacy, etc.). There will be a major brain drain, with people coming to our universities, but heading overseas to make their fortune.

[Tracy 2112]

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality.

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately.

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

End the 'War on Drugs'


And this is why I have a hard time taking this "movement" seriously. You have a problem with these things? Then you are occupying the wrong street. It's like having a problem with the way chickens are raised/slaughtered so you occupy a Bed, Bath & Beyond outlet.

I believe if Bush were in office, the focus of this occupy movement would be more squarely on government, where, according to these "demands" the focus should be on the first place. But Obama gets a pass b/c he leans to the Left.

I still think our government made a mistake with the bailouts b/c as chodester sez,
"This country is/was on the brink of collapse, yet almost nothing has changed." The only way to "fix" greed/corruption is to have negative consequences for greed/corruption. And we are talking Great Depression consequences for things to change. I shudder to think of the calamity down the road that will actually bring change, but it ain't gonna be pretty. And we will crawl right back in the hole once we're out of it.

[el_chode]

Since NJ banned assault weapons, extended magazines, dum dum and hollow points, and really any and all concealed carry permits, gun violence has essentially disappeared.

Not exactly. In fact, the opposite.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states.

Mayhaps I ought to have used the sarcasm font haha. Or just used more sarcasm. Unless working in Newark has used up all my sarcasm and replaced it with dry cynicism

[YouAre_GivenToFly]

Since NJ banned assault weapons, extended magazines, dum dum and hollow points, and really any and all concealed carry permits, gun violence has essentially disappeared.

Not exactly. In fact, the opposite.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in New York, Virginia, New Jersey, Mississippi, Missouri, Arizona, Delaware, New Hampshire
Massachusetts, North Dakota, Connecticut and several of the smaller states.

Mayhaps I ought to have used the sarcasm font haha. Or just used more sarcasm. Unless working in Newark has used up all my sarcasm and replaced it with dry cynicism

Shame on me for missing it. I need to get better at the internet.

[e_wind]

Everyone realizes that those demands are just a random guy posting on a forum.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/next-up-occupy-congress/2011/11/18/gIQAGObiYN_blog.html

[ALady]

Well, that's a start.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Police pepper spraying and arresting students at UC Davis