The NFL Thread: 2012

[ManNamedTruth]

The Browns still suck, that's all I got to say.

[iLikeBeer]

The Browns record overall may suck, but I can definitely see things that are showing me signs of this team improving.

Point being, the Browns have lost 8 games to date.  Of those 8 games, 7 of the eight losses have been by 10 points or less, 5 of the eight games have been by a touchdown or less and their worst loss of the season is just a 14 point loss at the defending Super Bowl Champion NY Giants.  The average margin of defeat in their 8 losses is just 7 points per loss.  A break here or there and the Browns could have as good or better of a record than the Stillers.

The Browns might not be there yet, but they are definitely showing signs of life.  And couple that with the very good chance of Stillers missing the playoffs and I will be a happy man... 

[Penny Lane]

The Browns might not be there yet, but they are definitely showing signs of life.  And couple that with the very good chance of Stillers missing the playoffs and I will be a happy man... 

[manonthemoon]

The Browns record overall may suck, but I can definitely see things that are showing me signs of this team improving.

Point being, the Browns have lost 8 games to date.  Of those 8 games, 7 of the eight losses have been by 10 points or less, 5 of the eight games have been by a touchdown or less and their worst loss of the season is just a 14 point loss at the defending Super Bowl Champion NY Giants.  The average margin of defeat in their 8 losses is just 7 points per loss.  A break here or there and the Browns could have as good or better of a record than the Stillers.

The Browns might not be there yet, but they are definitely showing signs of life.  And couple that with the very good chance of Stillers missing the playoffs and I will be a happy man... 

Richardson is a beast and the Defense is good, but not sold on the old man Weeden, I just don't see him getting it done in this league.  Mccoy might actually be better than him, just saying.

[capt. scotty]

Im loving this QB controversy in SF. I think SF and Harbaugh are making the right decision with Kaepernicus.

The NFC is so loaded offensively, I dont think SF can win a SB/get by all of GB, ATL, NYG, etc. I think gambling with Kaep is the right call. Smith has been quite good, but I think Kaep really increases their chances of a SB win, or even getting there.

[iLikeBeer]

Richardson is a beast and the Defense is good, but not sold on the old man Weeden, I just don't see him getting it done in this league.  Mccoy might actually be better than him, just saying.

Agreed.  I love Richardson.  Many were skeptical about the Browns trading up to get a running back, including one Jim Brown, but Richardson has done well to make those skeptics eat their words. 

I'm not sold on Weedon just yet.  But I'm also not convinced he's getting the best coaching.  He's got like 4 coaches telling him what to do and IMO, that can cause information overload for a rookie, old or not.  That said, I wouldn't go as far as to say McCoy is a better option at this point.  McCoy has a noodle for an arm and there are throws that Weedon can make that McCoy can only dream of making.  Also, don't forget, his favorite target is a rookie and their other leading recievers are another rookie and a 2nd year player.  Right now, I'm willing to stick with Weedon as I don't want to see the Browns spend yet another high draft pick on another QB and, quite frankly, I don't see this upcoming draft class as having too many QB's worthy of a high draft pick.  So I'm willing to give Weedon at least one more season to see if he can show signs of improvement.

[iLikeBeer]

Im loving this QB controversy in SF. I think SF and Harbaugh are making the right decision with Kaepernicus.

The NFC is so loaded offensively, I dont think SF can win a SB/get by all of GB, ATL, NYG, etc. I think gambling with Kaep is the right call. Smith has been quite good, but I think Kaep really increases their chances of a SB win, or even getting there.

I don't know if I agree with the decision and I'm wondering how the SF locker room is handling it?  I mean, you have a guy that led this team to a 14-2 record and a trip to the NFC Championship game a year ago and he has done nothing this year to show cause for concern.  And now you're handing the riegns over to a rookie who has made all of 2 NFL starts because Smith sufferred a concussion?  Had he not sufferred that concussion, would Kaepernick have even sniffed the field?  I'm wondering what kind of a leader Smith was.  Obviously he must not be much of one for Harbaugh to be able to make this decision in the middle of a season where his team is winning?! 

Personally, I think this has more to do with money than anything else.  I heard yesterday that Smith is due a $7 million bonus due next April if he is still with the team.  Harbaugh sees Kaepernick as a way to save the Niners some money towards the cap and go with a younger QB with more upside than an aging Smith.  I can't blame Harbaugh for making the decision he made, but at the same time, I just think it was kind of a dick move to bench the guy that took this team to the brink of the Super Bowl a year ago and had them poised to make another run this season?!

And that opens another can of worms.  Players are going to look at this situation and suddenly thoughts of playing through concussions because they don't want to risk losing their starting job will become more and more prevalent.  Hell, Brandon Weedon of the Browns sufferred a concussion late in their game with the Stillers last week and guess what?  He's been cleared to play by team doctors this week.  Was he really cleared or does he not want to give McCoy a chance to outshine him on the football field?

[Ruckus]

Im loving this QB controversy in SF. I think SF and Harbaugh are making the right decision with Kaepernicus.

The NFC is so loaded offensively, I dont think SF can win a SB/get by all of GB, ATL, NYG, etc. I think gambling with Kaep is the right call. Smith has been quite good, but I think Kaep really increases their chances of a SB win, or even getting there.

I don't know if I agree with the decision and I'm wondering how the SF locker room is handling it?  I mean, you have a guy that led this team to a 14-2 record and a trip to the NFC Championship game a year ago and he has done nothing this year to show cause for concern.  And now you're handing the riegns over to a rookie who has made all of 2 NFL starts because Smith sufferred a concussion?  Had he not sufferred that concussion, would Kaepernick have even sniffed the field?  I'm wondering what kind of a leader Smith was.  Obviously he must not be much of one for Harbaugh to be able to make this decision in the middle of a season where his team is winning?! 

Personally, I think this has more to do with money than anything else.  I heard yesterday that Smith is due a $7 million bonus due next April if he is still with the team.  Harbaugh sees Kaepernick as a way to save the Niners some money towards the cap and go with a younger QB with more upside than an aging Smith.  I can't blame Harbaugh for making the decision he made, but at the same time, I just think it was kind of a dick move to bench the guy that took this team to the brink of the Super Bowl a year ago and had them poised to make another run this season?!

And that opens another can of worms.  Players are going to look at this situation and suddenly thoughts of playing through concussions because they don't want to risk losing their starting job will become more and more prevalent.  Hell, Brandon Weedon of the Browns sufferred a concussion late in their game with the Stillers last week and guess what?  He's been cleared to play by team doctors this week.  Was he really cleared or does he not want to give McCoy a chance to outshine him on the football field?

I agree with Scotty.  Alex Smith did not lead the niners to the brink of the Super BOwl last year.  He played efficiently and OK.  They have the leagues best D and O Line.  I would hope that he could used those parts to 'lead' a winning team.  Harbaugh made Alex Smith respectable.  I don't like Harbaugh but I give him credit for having the balls to do something considered taboo for no rational reason in professional sports, that you don't lose your starting job to injury.  Besides, Kapernicus was getting in for more and more snaps in different packages prior to Smith being concussed. 

I think the big thing is that Harbaugh loves his ability to run.  With that D, all the team needs to do is control clock and take the occasional shot downfield.  With Kapernicus, Harbaugh gets to tinker with so many more play options and packages.  Although Vernon Davis was shutout last week, just the fact that all linebackers have to hold on all zone read play actions with the DE having to stay honest, Kaepernick can have time every time to find Davis one on one down the field.  I think it's just more fun for Harbaugh to work from a much larger and exciting playbook.

[capt. scotty]

Richardson is a beast and the Defense is good, but not sold on the old man Weeden, I just don't see him getting it done in this league.  Mccoy might actually be better than him, just saying.

Agreed.  I love Richardson.  Many were skeptical about the Browns trading up to get a running back, including one Jim Brown, but Richardson has done well to make those skeptics eat their words. 

I'm not sold on Weedon just yet.  But I'm also not convinced he's getting the best coaching.  He's got like 4 coaches telling him what to do and IMO, that can cause information overload for a rookie, old or not.  That said, I wouldn't go as far as to say McCoy is a better option at this point.  McCoy has a noodle for an arm and there are throws that Weedon can make that McCoy can only dream of making.  Also, don't forget, his favorite target is a rookie and their other leading recievers are another rookie and a 2nd year player.  Right now, I'm willing to stick with Weedon as I don't want to see the Browns spend yet another high draft pick on another QB and, quite frankly, I don't see this upcoming draft class as having too many QB's worthy of a high draft pick.  So I'm willing to give Weedon at least one more season to see if he can show signs of improvement.

Yeah, I havent really seen him play much, but Weeden's numbers have been impressive for a rookie who really shouldnt have been a 1st rounder. I liked him at Okie St, and while I dont see him being a top 10 QB, I can see him taking CLE to the playoffs behind a team based on Trent and a continually improving D. I think what he really needs is more receiving weapons. Love what Ive seen from Josh Gordon, I think he has the skills to be a #1 NFL WR, but they need more. Liked Little a lot coming out of UNC, but he looks more like an average slot WR at this point. Gotta get Weeden more.

[manonthemoon]

The right call is Kapernick as the kid has lots of talent, remember seeing him at Nevada and he wwas talented then.  Smith has always been overrated, wasn't great at Utah and then became a #1 overall pick somehow.  He's your typical game manager qb, but in todays NFL you need someone who can make a play or two when the game is on the line, even with the great running game and awesome D.

Weeden might be better than any of the options this year in the draft, but at this point Wilson is out playing him as well.  Plus with a new regime comming into town the leash will be short I am sure.

[capt. scotty]

Im loving this QB controversy in SF. I think SF and Harbaugh are making the right decision with Kaepernicus.

The NFC is so loaded offensively, I dont think SF can win a SB/get by all of GB, ATL, NYG, etc. I think gambling with Kaep is the right call. Smith has been quite good, but I think Kaep really increases their chances of a SB win, or even getting there.

I don't know if I agree with the decision and I'm wondering how the SF locker room is handling it?  I mean, you have a guy that led this team to a 14-2 record and a trip to the NFC Championship game a year ago and he has done nothing this year to show cause for concern.  And now you're handing the riegns over to a rookie who has made all of 2 NFL starts because Smith sufferred a concussion?  Had he not sufferred that concussion, would Kaepernick have even sniffed the field?  I'm wondering what kind of a leader Smith was.  Obviously he must not be much of one for Harbaugh to be able to make this decision in the middle of a season where his team is winning?! 

Personally, I think this has more to do with money than anything else.  I heard yesterday that Smith is due a $7 million bonus due next April if he is still with the team.  Harbaugh sees Kaepernick as a way to save the Niners some money towards the cap and go with a younger QB with more upside than an aging Smith.  I can't blame Harbaugh for making the decision he made, but at the same time, I just think it was kind of a dick move to bench the guy that took this team to the brink of the Super Bowl a year ago and had them poised to make another run this season?!

And that opens another can of worms.  Players are going to look at this situation and suddenly thoughts of playing through concussions because they don't want to risk losing their starting job will become more and more prevalent.  Hell, Brandon Weedon of the Browns sufferred a concussion late in their game with the Stillers last week and guess what?  He's been cleared to play by team doctors this week.  Was he really cleared or does he not want to give McCoy a chance to outshine him on the football field?

I agree with Scotty.  Alex Smith did not lead the niners to the brink of the Super BOwl last year.  He played efficiently and OK.  They have the leagues best D and O Line.  I would hope that he could used those parts to 'lead' a winning team.  Harbaugh made Alex Smith respectable.  I don't like Harbaugh but I give him credit for having the balls to do something considered taboo for no rational reason in professional sports, that you don't lose your starting job to injury.  Besides, Kapernicus was getting in for more and more snaps in different packages prior to Smith being concussed. 

I think the big thing is that Harbaugh loves his ability to run.  With that D, all the team needs to do is control clock and take the occasional shot downfield.  With Kapernicus, Harbaugh gets to tinker with so many more play options and packages.  Although Vernon Davis was shutout last week, just the fact that all linebackers have to hold on all zone read play actions with the DE having to stay honest, Kaepernick can have time every time to find Davis one on one down the field.  I think it's just more fun for Harbaugh to work from a much larger and exciting playbook.

Exactly. Alex Smith was an afterthought his entire career and considered a bust until last year. I will give Smith some credit for a great playoff game vs NO in the playoffs last year, but that D was pretty horrid as well. The comeback/late back and forth was why it was so great. SF clearly has a great team surrounding the QB (although Id say average receiving options overall), but more importantly I think Harbaugh is a great QB coach. I wont give him all the credit for Luck, but no doubt in my mind he accelerated his progression into an NFL caliber QB while he was still in college - Luck's talent and intelligence also key there. Then he gets to the NFL and turns Smith into an elite game manager, which is really the best anyone could do. Almost positive I posted earlier in the year in here how I cant stand Harbaugh as well, but he is pretty clearly an excellent coach.

Then there's the fact that Smith was the last regime's (hell, more than that, Nolan era) guy and Harbaugh traded up for Kaepernicus. I think the writing was on the wall with how well he has played since Smith went out. Now I think he made a few questionable decisions vs NO last week, but literally only 2 or 3 and one was a muffed snap. His ability to extend the play and his pocket presence already looks very good. Kap has yet to be sacked in 2.5 games. Since becoming starter, he's barely even displayed his running ability (which makes me get flashbacks to that Boise St/Nevada game in 2010 when Kap upset undefeated Boise). I disagree with ILB that this is a salary cap move (which it is often), they had an idea of what Kap can do and now they have an even better one.

I read this article below the other day which I'll paste key points of that also paints a great picture IMO of why Kap is the better option and gives them a higher ceiling. And really, outside of Gore getting older, this team has a lot to look forward to. Even if they dont win it all this year, it gives Kap a ton of meaningful playing time and things to learn from.





Article:

2012    Niners QBs Under Duress
QB                        Smith      Kaepernick
Pct. of attempts     8.8        23.0
Comp.-att.             4-19       9-17
Yards/att.               1.2        8.0
Throwaway pct.      42.1       17.7
Total QBR                17.4       73.5

Kaepernick and former starter Alex Smith have been under duress a similar number of times this season, even though Smith has 2.5 times as many action plays. That is because Kaepernick has held the ball 4.1 seconds following the snap on average, the highest figure in the NFL. The extra time Kaepernick holds the ball leads to more snaps under duress.

Kaepernick averages 8.0 yards per pass attempt in these situations. Smith averages 1.2 yards per attempt.

Smith ranks third behind Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in Total QBR (79.2) and seventh in NFL passer rating (101.8) when he delivers the ball within 3.4 seconds (his average). He ranks only 19th in QBR (26.7) on the other plays largely because he has taken 21 sacks on them.

Sacks very much count during games, of course. Smith has taken more of them since the start of the 2011 season (68) than every player but Aaron Rodgers (73), who has 280 additional action plays over that span. Rodgers also has a 73-13 ratio of touchdowns to interceptions during that time (30-10 for Smith).

[capt. scotty]

Weeden might be better than any of the options this year in the draft, but at this point Wilson is out playing him as well.  Plus with a new regime comming into town the leash will be short I am sure.

Do you mean Weeden in better than any of the guys entering the 2013 draft?? Obviously Weeden wasnt and isnt a better option than Luck and RG3.

Speaking of which, cant wait to see Luck and RG3's careers progress. Really hope RG3 stays healthy, and both guys D's are good enough to give them SB shots - which isnt close to the case now as both of their D's are terrible.

[iLikeBeer]

Weeden might be better than any of the options this year in the draft, but at this point Wilson is out playing him as well.  Plus with a new regime comming into town the leash will be short I am sure.

Do you mean Weeden in better than any of the guys entering the 2013 draft?? Obviously Weeden wasnt and isnt a better option than Luck and RG3.

Speaking of which, cant wait to see Luck and RG3's careers progress. Really hope RG3 stays healthy, and both guys D's are good enough to give them SB shots - which isnt close to the case now as both of their D's are terrible.

I think he meant this upcoming draft.  Wilson may be outplaying Weedon, but I would also argue that the Seahawks overall team is better than the Browns.  Put Wilson on the Browns and I don't think he's putting up the numbers Weedon has. 

Scotty, I agree with you about getting Weedon more weapons.  Gordon has definitely been a pleasant surprise for someone who was drafted in the middle of the summer in the suplemental draft.  He is going to be a good one.  I think Little can be a good #2 or #3 reciever and Benjamin is so fast, once he gets some more experience, he will be a tough matchup as well.  Mo Mass is a dissapointment and someone I thought could develop into a solid NFL receiver but he's just sufferred too many concussions and now I think he hears too many footsteps.  Compared to where the Browns receiving corps is now to where they were the last couple of years, I'd say they are on their way, but still need to add one or two more pieces to make them lethal to go along with TRich in the backfield!

The new regime will definitely be something to keep an eye on.  I haven't been completely sold on Shurmur but at the same time, his team seems to be buying into him or else they would have quit on him a long time ago.  One thing I will have to give Shurmur credit for is that his team does play hard for him and he does have a win over the Stillers now on his resume which is not something a lot of former Browns coaches can equal.  I'm just torn because I'm not convinced Shurmur is the man for the job, but at the same time, do I really want to go through the headache of watching this team wallow for another 3-4 years through another coaching change?  It will be interesting to see what the new owner's approach is.

[Tracy 2112]

Don't like the Steelers but couldn't help but feel good for Charlie Batch.

[iLikeBeer]

So, did Kaep come back down to earth a little yesterday?  He accounted for 8 of the Rams 16 points in the Niners loss to St. Louis...

[Ruckus]

So, did Kaep come back down to earth a little yesterday?  He accounted for 8 of the Rams 16 points in the Niners loss to St. Louis...

Makes for a great story eh?  The plot thickens.  That pitch was terrible but Teddy Ginn sure could have tried to fall on the ball.  Ya gotta stick with da Kaep

[ItBeats4Jew]

i mean, who calls that play backed up at your own 10 yard line?  not Greg Roman's finest hour. 

[joey_rogo]

Don't like the Steelers but couldn't help but feel good for Charlie Batch.

Same. When they showed him hugging on the sideline, I felt feelings.

[CHIMMJFAN]

So, did Kaep come back down to earth a little yesterday?  He accounted for 8 of the Rams 16 points in the Niners loss to St. Louis...

Ultimately a couple of tough plays for Kapernick:
1. High pitch to Ginn Jr. at the 10 yard line (have no clue why that play was called and why Ginn Jr. didn't just fall on it).
2. Kaepernick had an opportunity to stay in bounds at the end of the game to force St. Louis to call their last time out. (Clock management error on Colin's part, something he will hopefully learn from).

The safety play still drives me crazy, (per league rule, if in the endzone and a qb is out of the pocket, as long as the ball makes it to or past the line of scrimmage even if the ball travels out of bounds past the line of scrimmage....then no intentional ground and no safety).

Rams play SF tough, but if Delanie Walker doesnt drop a perfectly thrown ball in the endzone at the end of the game, I think everyone is talking about what great poise and comeback ability Kapernick has after his errant high pitch to Ginn Jr.

CHIMMJFAN

[capt. scotty]

So, did Kaep come back down to earth a little yesterday?  He accounted for 8 of the Rams 16 points in the Niners loss to St. Louis...

Makes for a great story eh?  The plot thickens.  That pitch was terrible but Teddy Ginn sure could have tried to fall on the ball.  Ya gotta stick with da Kaep

Harbaugh called the play, and a dumb call at that.

Im still all for Kaepernicus....if he really shits the bed the next couple weeks then bring in Smith, but STL played them tough while Smith was still around so this divisional game doesnt surprise me