The NFL Thread: 2012

[Tired Eyes]

My take on the whole thing was that Jim is being a cry baby, which is one reason I don't really care for him, even if he is a great coach.  Everyone gets bad calls or no calls in this case, but there was much more going into loosing that game then just that play.  Plus you don't know if they score even if its called and then the Ravens would have had plenty of time to try and get the game winning field goal.

The refs pretty much swallowed their whistles for the entire game and just let them play, kind of like the NBA during the finals.  Unless the offense is really bad then most don't get called, especially in a situation where it could affect the outcome of the game.

The one play that really shocked me that was not called was when Williams shoved the official, he should of at least got a personal foul for that or IMHO he should of been kicked out.  But then again the refs didn't want to kick a starting cb out of the game as that would have severly affected the outcome IMO, so they didn't even give it a personal foul.

The 49ers are a well built team who aren't in a bad cap situation and none of the big names are up for UFA so they should be set up well for next season.  The ravens on the other hand will be hurting as Flacco, who in all due respect earned a big pay day with his play, but isn't a true elite (IE top 5) IMO, will be wanting to break the bank.  Then with Kruger, williams, reed, Elerby all hitting the free agent market, Ray retiring, and no real cap space it could be a rough year as that is a lot of holes on the defense.

Flacco, who in all due respect earned a big pay day with his play, but isn't a true elite (IE top 5) IMO,   Not a Ravens fan, but who were the 5 QBs better this year?  You make ZERO sense with that statement.

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
RG III
Russell Wilson
Matt Ryan

There's six for you.  That's the regular season mind you...Flacco was the best quarterback in the postseason.

[manonthemoon]

My take on the whole thing was that Jim is being a cry baby, which is one reason I don't really care for him, even if he is a great coach.  Everyone gets bad calls or no calls in this case, but there was much more going into loosing that game then just that play.  Plus you don't know if they score even if its called and then the Ravens would have had plenty of time to try and get the game winning field goal.

The refs pretty much swallowed their whistles for the entire game and just let them play, kind of like the NBA during the finals.  Unless the offense is really bad then most don't get called, especially in a situation where it could affect the outcome of the game.

The one play that really shocked me that was not called was when Williams shoved the official, he should of at least got a personal foul for that or IMHO he should of been kicked out.  But then again the refs didn't want to kick a starting cb out of the game as that would have severly affected the outcome IMO, so they didn't even give it a personal foul.

The 49ers are a well built team who aren't in a bad cap situation and none of the big names are up for UFA so they should be set up well for next season.  The ravens on the other hand will be hurting as Flacco, who in all due respect earned a big pay day with his play, but isn't a true elite (IE top 5) IMO, will be wanting to break the bank.  Then with Kruger, williams, reed, Elerby all hitting the free agent market, Ray retiring, and no real cap space it could be a rough year as that is a lot of holes on the defense.

Flacco, who in all due respect earned a big pay day with his play, but isn't a true elite (IE top 5) IMO,   Not a Ravens fan, but who were the 5 QBs better this year?  You make ZERO sense with that statement.

Aaron Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
RG III
Russell Wilson
Matt Ryan

There's six for you.  That's the regular season mind you...Flacco was the best quarterback in the postseason.

Well for starters the ones I would call elite are the following, but I tend to go by qbr over passer rating and i won't put any young qbs with only 2 years in the league or less on the list as thats too small of a sample size:

Rodgers is at the very top
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady (I'm a dolphins fan, so not biased at all here)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning (didnt look great (still top 10 qbr) last year, but two rings puts him up there)

Flacco would fall into the next group with along with
Big Ben
Matt Ryan
Stafford
Romo

He had a great post season after a below average regular season, but I see people as elite as someone who scares you whenever you go up against them and he doesn't really fit that bill imo just yet.  I will be interested to see how he does with less weapons since Bolden will probably be gone to make cap room and the defense getting worse with all of the turnover.

[Ruckus]

Wilson. Keapernick, RGIII, these young guys have changed pro football, probably for good. They make Michael Vick look like a pioneer, but not a champion. Somewhere in between is Cam Newton. He has plenty of time to reach the level of these other new guys. What a great day of football. How can you not root for Seattle, unless you are a true Falcons fan?

I disagree about  changing the game for good. These guys are very talented, no doubt, but if they keep running that read option in the pros, they're not going to last too long,IMO.  Pro D-coordinators will figure out a way to stop this type of offense, and it won't take long either,imo. Having a QB who can scramble out of the pocket when needed like an Elway, Staubach or Young  is one thing, and  a great luxury, but counting on a QB to run as much as  he throws is a very risky deal.

These qb's will be getting hurt ala RGIII,and unless these guys can also be a pocket QB, and run that type of offense, they won't have very long careers,imo. There is way too much money, and cap hits tied up in qb's to not have them on the field. I'd bet Shanahan, and the Skins are already at work  putting in a regular pro offense  for RGIII when he returns, and scrapping the read option. Hopefully he comes back healthy, and has a nice career, but one more injury to that knee and he's done, and the Skins will be feeling that cap hit for a long time.

Still believe this eric?  I think it has been shown for years now in college that you can't "stop" the zone read option offenses.  As many articles over the past few years have explained, it fundamentally shifts the numerical competitive balance in the offense's favor.  In a traditional pro run play, the QB is not a running threat so the play is essentially 10 vs 11.  When you run read option, the QB becomes a threat and becomes 11 vs 11.  The basis of the read option is that you don't have to block the backside DE/OLB because you base your decision of whether he crashes or sets so the O now has a 11 vs 10 advantage.  That is huge, particularly when you can run all sorts of other plays of the basic formation.  Teams like A&M, Oregon, and now the Eagles just go to the line of scrimmage with 4 or 5 audibles from the same base formation and it just gasses defenses even more. 

Your point about the durability of some qbs is well taken but the advantage is too great not to use.  Otherwise, you are just falling behind.  I can see in the future, teams employing depth at QB, ala RBs, with interchangeable running/passing qbs where they can afford to run them, having viable backups.  So many of these type of qbs coming through the college pipeline now.

[ericm]

Wilson. Keapernick, RGIII, these young guys have changed pro football, probably for good. They make Michael Vick look like a pioneer, but not a champion. Somewhere in between is Cam Newton. He has plenty of time to reach the level of these other new guys. What a great day of football. How can you not root for Seattle, unless you are a true Falcons fan?

I disagree about  changing the game for good. These guys are very talented, no doubt, but if they keep running that read option in the pros, they're not going to last too long,IMO.  Pro D-coordinators will figure out a way to stop this type of offense, and it won't take long either,imo. Having a QB who can scramble out of the pocket when needed like an Elway, Staubach or Young  is one thing, and  a great luxury, but counting on a QB to run as much as  he throws is a very risky deal.

These qb's will be getting hurt ala RGIII,and unless these guys can also be a pocket QB, and run that type of offense, they won't have very long careers,imo. There is way too much money, and cap hits tied up in qb's to not have them on the field. I'd bet Shanahan, and the Skins are already at work  putting in a regular pro offense  for RGIII when he returns, and scrapping the read option. Hopefully he comes back healthy, and has a nice career, but one more injury to that knee and he's done, and the Skins will be feeling that cap hit for a long time.

Still believe this eric?  I think it has been shown for years now in college that you can't "stop" the zone read option offenses.  As many articles over the past few years have explained, it fundamentally shifts the numerical competitive balance in the offense's favor.  In a traditional pro run play, the QB is not a running threat so the play is essentially 10 vs 11.  When you run read option, the QB becomes a threat and becomes 11 vs 11.  The basis of the read option is that you don't have to block the backside DE/OLB because you base your decision of whether he crashes or sets so the O now has a 11 vs 10 advantage.  That is huge, particularly when you can run all sorts of other plays of the basic formation.  Teams like A&M, Oregon, and now the Eagles just go to the line of scrimmage with 4 or 5 audibles from the same base formation and it just gasses defenses even more. 

Your point about the durability of some qbs is well taken but the advantage is too great not to use.  Otherwise, you are just falling behind.  I can see in the future, teams employing depth at QB, ala RBs, with interchangeable running/passing qbs where they can afford to run them, having viable backups.  So many of these type of qbs coming through the college pipeline now.

I absolutely still do believe this. The read option is a potent weapon, and the numbers do favor the offense over the traditional pro running offense where you don't account for the QB. That, I'll give you, but to me the biggest factors working against this having a long shelf life is injury, and salary cap. I think this year we're going to see these QB's taking even more hits. Unless they change the rules at some point, this O is too much risk for the reward,IMO.

In college you have young guys running it, with depth at QB not tied into a salary cap. When RGIII, Kaep, Wilson et al are due to cash in on their next contracts, it's going to put a premium on them being healthy for their teams to compete year after year. Their cap hit won't allow teams to have another high paid QB on the roster, while being competitive,and having skill at other positions as well.

The only way I can really see this offense possibly having much of a shelf life in the NFL is if teams just decide to ride these qb's for their rookie contracts, not give them big bucks on the next one, and just reload with another young QB. Personally, I don't think much of that option, as you need stability in the NFLimo, especially at QB, and coach.

I'll be real interested to see how defenses have played this O by the time this crop of QB's have reached the end of their rookie deals. If as I suspect they have adjusted to it, QB's get hurt, and make it not worth the risk, will it go the way of the Run and Shoot, or will teams decide to play revolving QB's and just get another young guy in there.

Maybe I'm bit ( ) old  school, but I don't think it's a coincidence that looking back, almost all Super Bowl winning teams have had traditional "pocket" type QB's and offenses. The exception being ones who have had scramblers like Elway, Young, etc. Still a traditional type O, but an added dimension with those guys being able to get out of trouble, and extend plays.

I can see a form of this offense remaining in the game, to keep defenses off balance, but as the main type of a teams offense, I think it'll be hard to sustain.

Personally, I think Luck is going to have a better career, and outlast the rest of this crop of current QB's, but time will tell.