Red Rocks - August 14

[Lonndown27]

l feel the people who've gone to a billion shows shouldnt complain cause theyve seen A LOT MORE rare songs than some of us will ever get the chance too hahahah ive only seen them ONCE and it was a life affirming show...I already loved the band to the point they were my #1 but that show just sealed it..and that SLC 2012 set list, though it has its rarities and spice, was pretty much a greatest hits set, which everyone NEEDS for their first show, and I was very privileged I felt to get it 

[dookie shoot bandit]

I dunno??
I have seen them 20 times and woudnt care if it was the same setlist every time. In the moment I can give a fuck what songs they play.  Tell you  the truth I am so  done with I'm amazed, and every time I'm like please don't play it, and then it comes on and I don't have that feeling... Cause it's still sounds great while you are witnessing it.
Sure after words, I may say damn I wish they played this, or this song would have fit in there... But ultimately I do believe they do a good job mixing it up every night. And we don't know the real reasons that don't play certain songs? We all begggggg for Oxen, By My Car, Friends Again.... But maybe there is a reason they don't play them? Maybe they are personal songs about personal experiences that he doesn't want to re live? Maybe he doesn't remember the chords or lyrics? Who knows? Same goes for Big D... I really thought this song was gonna be played every night. But who knows what happened.
At the end of the day every single song they perform live is magic.

As for the set at RR. Being that is was recorded and streamed, and after looking at, it was a pretty perfect greatest hits setlist. Without replacing anything, I just wish Dancefloors was added... Love that fucking song!

[Frank G]

Thank you for the comments people.  Most of you got my point and I did not want this to come off as a complaint or that my vast knowledge should somehow control what they play.  After seeing them for years and understanding what they've done in the past, then hearing about a live stream at RR with Danny, RIGHT AFTER destroying Atlanta....I thought I was in for a real treat.  And again it was solid, but I would not consider a treat.  Just me.  And Dookie, I agree with you and that's how I am every time.  But hearing the same sequence of a few renditions made it a little, how do you say, watered down. 

They are the band and know what they're doing, that is for sure.  The positive is I am still smiling when I see them and listen to them every single day. 

[itrainmonkeys]

I'm assuming they played similar stuff in Atlanta as a way to rehearse/practice it for the Red Rocks stream show. Probably wanted to make sure things sounded as good as they could before being streamed out to the world. Does it cheapen the Red Rocks show a little? I guess. But they still kicked ass IMO.

[kholl44]

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING. I was sitting front row right behind the "one big family crowd" towards the right of the stage  And one of the girls with that crowd continued to scream at me during dondante because I was singing to Loud. Listen you little smurf wherver you are you are the most hateful Bitch I have ever met in my life. Even after I explained to her how my best friend had recently passed away in a car accident and that the song was extra emotional for me tonight she continued to flip me off and stare at me angrily the rest of the night. You are a disgusting excuse of a human being Jim James would be repulsed by you and you gave your "one big family" a horrible image. Shame on you

Everyone in the first few rows of GA was great, but I didn't like how they let some (obviously not die-hard) fans into the 'handicapped access' area in between the front row and the stage... The people in front of us were mostly cool, but I felt so embarrassed for them that they kept leaving to get beer in the middle of songs, and were talking for most of Jim's quiet solo in Dondante... Blasphemy!

[walterfredo]

Frank, I totally get what you're saying. Be warned, people on this forum, and fans of the band in general, tend to be overly sensitive to even the smallest amounts of critique and criticism. Your points are valid. 

[Santo]

Thank you for the comments people.  Most of you got my point and I did not want this to come off as a complaint or that my vast knowledge should somehow control what they play.  After seeing them for years and understanding what they've done in the past, then hearing about a live stream at RR with Danny, RIGHT AFTER destroying Atlanta....I thought I was in for a real treat.  And again it was solid, but I would not consider a treat.  Just me.  And Dookie, I agree with you and that's how I am every time.  But hearing the same sequence of a few renditions made it a little, how do you say, watered down. 

They are the band and know what they're doing, that is for sure.  The positive is I am still smiling when I see them and listen to them every single day. 

I know I'm a little late to the party and there is a lot to take in with the last few posts, but I wanted to make a few points in respectful disagreement.

I get what your saying. There were a lot of songs I wanted to hear, but I would have been disappointed to miss out on others.  I think that our expectations conflict with what Jacket does. They are not a jamband, at least not in the traditional sense. I don't really like trying to compare them to other bands, but they don't have a different show night-to-night like an Umphrey's McGee, but they don't do the same show like a Faith No More. Both are great live, but are vastly different styles. Jacket fits a great happy medium. Maybe I'm wrong, but I now expect a different setlist every night, that includes a group of slightly changing core songs, fine tuning what works with what doesn't over the course of a tour.

They tend to do everything. I have a tough time trying to explain them to someone who has never listened to them before. I guess they are classic-alt-folk-county-rock-pop-jamtronica. I'm not trying to explain them to this crowd, just explain how I get flummoxed when someone asks me to categorize them. On top of that, they've traveled from Miami Beach to the Rocky Mountains, played 10 shows over the course of two weeks in August. I think its fair to have a little repetition.

I also think its fair to expect a little blow back from a critical, yet thoughtful post. I tried to ignore the comments from other shows because I didn't want to bias my expectations. The show was amazing and I wanted to bask in its glory with everyone else. Its a bit of a buzzkill coming back to the board and read words like "cheapen" and "watered down."  But that's my expectation. Not everyone will agree and critique fosters good discussion. So I'll get over it.

Finally, If you can't make it, couch tours are great, but they don't come close to doing the Red Rocks justice. On top of that, there are few bands that can sonically fill that place like MMJ. The elements there can ruin an otherwise great show. They have never failed to deliver there. I think its fair to say that more Jacket is better than less, in-person better than recorded, and while I might have minor complaints and I always want them to do everything, my face has melted every time I've seen them.

[patrickbateman]

Honestly I think the fact that people quibble with the fact that they don't get 5 different Tennessee Fire/Split EP/How Could I Know/Chills etc. deep cuts per show speaks volumes to how spoiled this band makes us with regard to their tours and live shows. I'm not saying don't criticize - healthy debate elevates discourse for any topic - but look at the uniformity of set lists, brevity of set lengths, and lack of experimentation of other contemporary bands and compare them to MMJ and it's pretty mind blowing.

[Cameron]

i've liked plenty of setlists on this tour more than RR.  still a great show.

[parkervb]

i've liked plenty of setlists on this tour more than RR.  still a great show.

i don't think this is an uncommon sentiment, at least not out of the folks I've talked to. A powerhouse festival-type set and there ain't nothing wrong with that!   

[gardenparty]

the entire night I was under the impression they decided to play the songs they knew they could knock out of the park.  Specifically to have a kick ass live video.

I loved the setlist.  I loved the show. 

[lms73]

Did anyone pick up a poster? We didn't get in on time, but I would love to know who the artist is.  It was my husband and my first MMJ show (even though we've been fans for many, many years, it just hasn't fallen in to place). We were totally and completely blown away!! Will not miss them again when they are in my neck of the woods.

[parkervb]

Did anyone pick up a poster? We didn't get in on time, but I would love to know who the artist is.  It was my husband and my first MMJ show (even though we've been fans for many, many years, it just hasn't fallen in to place). We were totally and completely blown away!! Will not miss them again when they are in my neck of the woods.

Clinton Reno http://clintonreno.com/

and i bet he puts some up there soon for sale. Follow on FB or IG

[lms73]

Thanks!

[Frank G]

True but I'm not asking for this every show.  Atlanta was a treat...but after you give that same treat to others, it begins to taste like a vegetable.  Ya dig? 

And yes, they are separate from most other contemporary bands today but they always have been.  Look at what they were playing back 5-6 years ago...and heck, look at OBH this year!  The amount of covers and off the wall tunes was very nice.  Willie Nelson cover & Waylon Jennings "Don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys"...a few Marley tunes...what?  Chris Issak / Mazzy Star / New Basement Tapes tune as well.  Not that I want to hear only covers but dammit we were talking about Red Rocks and a freshly announced Danny Clinch production as a FIRST!   I just thought it would be different, that's all.  Perhaps I am extremely spoiled from seeing over the years.   

And PRETTY PLEASE no one take offense, but look at how many folks in this thread have stated "This was my first show".  And I am EXTREMELY HAPPY they are growing the fan base.  I am not one of these fans that wants the band to remain small.  These guys preach love and I know 100% my world is a better place because of this music, therefore I have no problem sharing it with everyone! 

IF any of you were at RR a few years ago, the crowd was no comparison.  If you can find this concert from RR that aired on Palladia, the crowd is NO WHERE CLOSE to the same caliber.  Red Rocks was ON FIRE during those takes and while it was not a live feed, it was a live concert and the place was I N S A N E.  Please watch that and then watch the stream again....no comparison.  And perhaps that is why I felt let down, perhaps it was the caliber of the crowd around me and the overall environment.  In the end I think it was a mix of both and coupled with my high expectations created a hole for myself.  No biggie really. 

I will leave you with this from an article that was posted a few hours ago.
"While seasoned fans soaked up jam after jam, some casual concertgoers grew fatigued by the sprawling setlist. By the time 11:30 p.m. rolled around, many people sat on the aisle stairs looking bored. But the band still had about an hour's worth of music left to play."

Just wasn't the same. 

[itrainmonkeys]

Not that I want to hear only covers but dammit we were talking about Red Rocks and a freshly announced Danny Clinch production as a FIRST!   I just thought it would be different, that's all.  Perhaps I am extremely spoiled from seeing over the years.   

Possible that they will be releasing a DVD/Bluray of the show and could getting covers cleared be an issue? I really don't know specifics about that sort of thing but maybe they wanted to save on paying any money they would potentially have to pay in order to release it for purchase featuring others' songs.

Really not sure. Just a guess.


I do feel spoiled by all the amazing things I've seen. I've learned that I have to temper my buildup for the band when talking to others at festivals because I know they will be great but I know that they usually are SO MUCH BETTER or can kill it on a tour date in a way that makes a festival date seem like a warmup.

[Come Closer]

Look at what they were playing back 5-6 years ago...and heck, look at OBH this year!  The amount of covers and off the wall tunes was very nice.  Willie Nelson cover & Waylon Jennings "Don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys"...a few Marley tunes...what?  Chris Issak / Mazzy Star / New Basement Tapes tune as well. 

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the Red Rocks show easily more than any of the OBH shows. Acoustics were obviously a big factor, but quality of the performance is also a biggie for me.

[midwesterner]

Just my .02, but I was disappointed with the Red Rocks show.  Did anyone else go to The Fox in Atlanta and to RR?  I will say the only reason i am disappointed is because I saw Atlanta the previous weekend.  RR was nothing more than Atlanta crammed into a 3:17 min show...which was incredible, but I hope you see my point.  Think about it, the Steam > Memories > Steam first surfaced in Atlanta and was just insane.  First ever and totally put the crowd in a place of wanting more.  Also look at Part 1 & Part 2 played back to back for the first time ever as well, at least that I recall.  They did both of these at RR which seems to cheapen the experience a bit.  Why no out of this world covers to start the night off in a tear?  Not even an old rarity or Tyrone or at least throw a Bear / September in for the first handful of tunes. 

Anyone feel me on this?  Again, do not get me wrong RR was an incredible experience.  But if you saw both nights at The Fox in Atlanta, I would really like to know your opinion.  I hope they are not like Tedeschi Trucks where you only need to see them once per tour based on the similar set lists. 

I will end with a question.  If you saw 5-8+ shows this tour, would you fly to Europe to see them?  Would you head to Boston and then to NYC to see all shows?  After the last few to close this tour, I am not so sure I would.  And that makes me sad. 

I love this band with my entire being.  I love what Jim writes and I love what they stand for.  But I wish they would take it to the next level for the fans.  Perhaps they will and perhaps I will be surprised in Europe.  Dying to hit Amsterdam based on the last time they played in '08. 

Share your thoughts as I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts.  I love the fans, I love you, and I love the band.  This statement is in no way taking anything away from what they are doing, but an honest assessment of what I experienced and my thoughts. 

Frank.

I agree with you 110%. I was at ATL and skipped RR because I was afraid this would happen. I kind of knew that RR wasn't going to get a special set list. The band kind of doesn't do that on these tours post an album. I actually found RR to be good but not great (I just watched the stream) and other than the mix with no bass and the awful hyper cutting of the video the set list was just to familiar to get me really excited.

I do think for the fall tour the band needs to start mixing up the set list more since they are doing so many multi night runs.  But I am not expecting that. I will not be flying out to Boston or NYC. Mostly because the shows are Thanksgiving. If they were another time I would probably hit them. But I would expect repeats during NYC. I bet the first two shows are repeat free but then the 3rd and 4th shows will repeat songs from those nights.

[Woldie]

I thought I enjoyed myself at Red Rocks. Then I read these posts, and realized the error of my ways. I now realize just how much that show sucked.  I apologize to those around me for the lightness of spirit and pure elation I exhibited during the performance.  I hope to experience a real show sometime soon.  Is there any way that I can know ahead of time if a show will be good? It just seems inefficient to have to wait until after the show and after opinions of it have hit the forum.

Again, my humble apologies for my joy.

[Santo]

IF any of you were at RR a few years ago, the crowd was no comparison.  If you can find this concert from RR that aired on Palladia, the crowd is NO WHERE CLOSE to the same caliber.  Red Rocks was ON FIRE during those takes and while it was not a live feed, it was a live concert and the place was I N S A N E.  Please watch that and then watch the stream again....no comparison.  And perhaps that is why I felt let down, perhaps it was the caliber of the crowd around me and the overall environment.  In the end I think it was a mix of both and coupled with my high expectations created a hole for myself.  No biggie really. 

I will leave you with this from an article that was posted a few hours ago.
"While seasoned fans soaked up jam after jam, some casual concertgoers grew fatigued by the sprawling setlist. By the time 11:30 p.m. rolled around, many people sat on the aisle stairs looking bored. But the band still had about an hour's worth of music left to play."

Just wasn't the same. 

I agree it wasn't the same, but it never is, despite similarities in some setlists. They approach the two night runs differently than a one-off show. We don't have Palladia tv in my neck of the woods, but the show on Axs was night two of the two night run. I think a better comparison is the 2011 show. All originals, no covers and a legendary show in of itself.

I think caliber of crowd is a matter of perspective. Friday we were close to the soundboard. The crowd was energized and full of stamina. It felt like it could have gone for another hour. We were at the 2012 shows. The second night we sat at the top. Had a relaxed, phenomenal night. But we saw people leaving early, folks left between the main show and encore, but most stayed. The casual fans that we were with enjoyed night 1 better, the one that wasn't televised. Perspective plays a part in the review too. One person's "sprawling setlist" is another's "career highlight of a show"

The Jambase review had a different perspective than the recent one. It says:

"Not only did they rise to the occasion at Red Rocks but they shattered audience expectations. For over three hours, MMJ dished out 29 songs that covered every one of their seven LP's, showcased material off of their latest album, The Waterfall, hit on all the classics, and even shelled out a few deep cuts for the setlist geeks to drool over."

Different strokes for different folks I guess.