Steam Engine vs. Dondante

Jbpats · Aug 03, 2015, 08:40 AM

Just for fun wanted to get everyone's take on this topic. My friends and I had a very intense conversation at around 3 AM after a long night of Manhattans.
I made the case that Steam Engine and Dondante are MMJ's two most epic tunes, their masterpieces if you will, what November Rain and Estranged were to Guns and Roses.
The question was which is the more epic tune, studio or live?

My answer for both was Steam Engine, the song puts me in another world just a beautiful piece of music in everyway possible. I still love Dondante but not at the same level as SE.

My friends all went against me and went Dondante, I think the recent version we saw at Bonnaroo helped persuade their decision a bit.

Anyway, what is the consensus around here? Or better question, is there an additional tune that should be included in the discussion? PWW or Strangulation maybe? I personally wouldn't put either at the level of SE or Dondante but I can see if they join the debate.

And just for the record both songs are incredible, this isn't a competition just curious of preference.

amskinz · Aug 03, 2015, 03:14 PM

I think the one thing we'd all agree on is that live, in the moment, is the best way to take in any Jacket tune. Any Waterfall song is a perfect example if you've had the chance to see them recently.
As for the main topic, this is where everyone could have their own choice. Especially if we're talking from a personal live experience. I still remember the first time I saw SE live. I felt like I was floating.
My pick to add to this would be Run Thru, the full version. It's a song that has always hit me a little differently than others. And when I have seen it live, it takes me somewhere else completely.
Both parts of Touch Me played consecutively was pretty epic in it's own way as well.
Again, it's all about everyone's preferences, and more importantly, the time and place witnessed.
I'd love to hear more people's opinions.

parkervb · Aug 03, 2015, 03:24 PM

That sounds like a conversation that we might have over a few bourbons...

Here's my two cents...

First, don't sleep on Don't Cry in that GNR epic song comparison!

Second, I think the consensus would easily be those two songs...they were epic and large in birth and have only grown since then as they mature in the live setting. I, personally, side on the Steam Engine for the answer to both questions.

Now, I would add in the recent version of Touch Me Pt 2 to the live epic and also suggest I Will Sing You Songs be added as a consideration (the Don't Cry of this thing - see what I did there?) as one that is both epic in the studio version and live setting.

Jbpats · Aug 03, 2015, 04:21 PM

Quote from: parkervb on Aug 03, 2015, 03:24 PM
That sounds like a conversation that we might have over a few bourbons...

Here's my two cents...

First, don't sleep on Don't Cry in that GNR epic song comparison!

Second, I think the consensus would easily be those two songs...they were epic and large in birth and have only grown since then as they mature in the live setting. I, personally, side on the Steam Engine for the answer to both questions.

Now, I would add in the recent version of Touch Me Pt 2 to the live epic and also suggest I Will Sing You Songs be added as a consideration (the Don't Cry of this thing - see what I did there?) as one that is both epic in the studio version and live setting.

Don't Cry is a great tune but Epic? I'm not sure I agree. Just doesn't have the same layers as Estranged or November Rain... I'd also probably add Coma to the GnR discussion although less known then the other tunes I originally brought up in comparison.
I kind of feel the same way with I Will Sing you Songs, great tune, just doesn't have the depth (in my opinion) to strike that "masterpiece" level.
Run Thru was originally in my consideration and came up during my friendly argument, but the live version and studio versions are kind of similar, they also tend to cut the live version short or just play the ending which kind of automatically eliminates it from the running.
Touch Me Part 2 is great live, personally studio wise I enjoy 1 more, live I enjoy 2 more.. but still not sure if i'd add Part 2 to the same level as Dondante or SE.. If Dondante and SE are Tier 1, it'd put Part 2 and Run Thru Tier 1.A
Here is a curveball, and actually another one I brought up that night. I think in another few years Tropics will get added to the "Epic" song discussion. The live version of the song is already amazing, I think in a few years it enters the world of being something truly special.. It definitely gave me chills at Bonnaroo.

parkervb · Aug 03, 2015, 04:41 PM

i guess the crux of this is how "epic" is defined.

I am going to go out on a limb here and keep it 100 as the kids say: I think Dondante has gotten too "epic". (insert audible gasps)

The 20+ minute versions are too aimless for my taste.

Derek713 · Aug 03, 2015, 05:07 PM

Today.........Steam Engine ......tomorrow......??

gardenparty · Aug 03, 2015, 05:15 PM

I don't know if I could pick. I will say the following tunes are all considered the "epics" in my mind and I will take any of them every night

Steam Engine
Dondante
Strangulation
I Will Sing You Songs
War Begun
I Think I'm Going to Hell
Phone Went West

AlwxanderD10 · Aug 03, 2015, 07:13 PM

I think the 2011 lollapalooza version of Dondante forever put that at the top of my list. However steam engine is not far behind. They both have two very different "atmospheres" if that makes sense. I enjoy the shreddin on Dondante more, but I prefer the atmosphere of Steam engine.

grizzy · Aug 03, 2015, 07:47 PM

Steam Engine
/thread

rincon2 · Aug 03, 2015, 09:15 PM

Steam Engine in any form is my favorite song of all time. It gives the feeling of that 10 minutes after sex where you semi doze off and feel like you are floating in the clouds. Snoregasm. Exceptionally beautiful tune. Dondonte is not far behind. More chills, less float.

johnnYYac · Aug 03, 2015, 09:24 PM

Your skin looks good in moonlight
And goddamn those shaky knees
The fact that my heart's beating
Is all the proof you need

HardNightConformist · Aug 03, 2015, 10:10 PM

Steam Engine is the best song I have ever heard.

Have been contemplating getting "the fact that my heart's beating is all the proof you need" tattoed on me for a while now...

But, if you must, I would add Touch Me Pt 2 to this discussion.

dookie shoot bandit · Aug 03, 2015, 11:09 PM

Great topic and 2 great songs to debate over.
They are both on the top of my list... But have to go with Steam.
It's my all time favorite.
Would definitely put PWW in that discussion as well.

weeniebeenie · Aug 04, 2015, 08:08 AM

Quote from: dookie shoot bandit on Aug 03, 2015, 11:09 PM
Great topic and 2 great songs to debate over.
They are both on the top of my list... But have to go with Steam.
It's my all time favorite.
Would definitely put PWW in that discussion as well.

I agree. PWW should be added to the list.
Out of the other two though, I'd pick Dondante.

LBSUNFLWR · Aug 04, 2015, 09:35 AM

I think Steam Engine is a better song. Only reason right now I'd say I would rather hear Dondante live more is that I have only heard it one time live and it was in 2008. I have heard Steam Engine at nearly every show I've seen, which is just fine with me :) .

For the record, I like Phone Went West just slightly better than either.

kholl44 · Aug 04, 2015, 11:01 AM

I think we can all agree that any MMJ song is a masterpiece... But I would have to go with Dondante over Steam Engine here.
One of my favorite qualities about MMJ is their ability to convey such deep emotion to the point where each song has its own colors and moves me to the point of tears.
Dondante is the best example of this in my opinion... Just how in different stages of the song you can feel the different stages of mourning that Jim has experienced... Denial, depression, desperation, anger, and eventually acceptance.
The Okonokos version gets me every time- never have I listened to a recording and felt such powerful raw emotions pouring out of a guitar solo.
I've only seen Dondante live once (at Bonnaroo) and it was the most surreal thing ever... So much energy flowing between 50,000 people, all coming from Jim pouring his heart out over something that has very deep meaning to him (and others)

Whenever I'm having a rough day I get out my saxophone, put on Dondante from Okonokos and jam along with the boys... Always a transcendental experience for me

Nepthys · Aug 04, 2015, 11:43 AM

Quote from: johnnYYac on Aug 03, 2015, 09:24 PM
Your skin looks good in moonlight
And goddamn those shaky knees
The fact that my heart's beating
Is all the proof you need

This. 1,000 times over.

sillyboob · Aug 04, 2015, 12:17 PM

Or maybe War Begun...

dookie shoot bandit · Aug 04, 2015, 01:54 PM

Quote from: Nepthys on Aug 04, 2015, 11:43 AM
Quote from: johnnYYac on Aug 03, 2015, 09:24 PM
Your skin looks good in moonlight
And goddamn those shaky knees
The fact that my heart's beating
Is all the proof you need
This. 1,000 times over.

A million times over!!
That verse gets me every time!!! Whether at the show... Or in the car... Every version of the song.
GOD DAMN THOSE SHAKY KNEES!

dookie shoot bandit · Aug 04, 2015, 02:20 PM

This is why this band is so amazing!!!
You can have friendly (heated) debates (arguments) about a list of songs...

Steam vs Dondante
PWW vs Touch Me or 2
Lowdown vs Dancefloors
Mahgeetah vs Lay Low
Off the Record vs Tropics
The Bear vs IWSYS
War Begun vs Gideon
Anytime vs Run Thru

And so on and so on... Etc. etc..
Just such electrifying music!!!!