Boston Philly NYC White Whales and expectations

[dontgetupset]

Good afternoon. I'm super excited for the Philly shows and for the NYC shows that I plan on attending as I know many/(most ?) here are also.

The topic of lack-of-rarities and SOMETIMES not mind-blowing setlists on The Waterfall tour has been discussed and debated within THE SHOWS, THE MUSIC, and THE BAND. So too has the topic of White Whales.

Members(s) of the band and people very connected to the band read this forum and therefore I want to make one thing clear:

You owe us nothing. Were we only to have received a fraction of your greatness and incredible vibes over the years we would be better people. Some even were treated to all-time-amazing-life-experiences in Mexico, Red Rocks, Port Chester or T5.

We are hopeful that the next 7 shows will go down as all time greats the same way the above have. We are hopeful that we're gonna get some white whales. Not just Rollin Back and KCL (though we would all love to see both) but we're talking

El Caporal
R.I.P.V.G.
CYSTHHOMH
All The Best

and

we're talking horns and covers.

Again. NOTHING. You owe us nothing. But at these 7 shows are gonna be a lot of THE most dedicated MMJ fans in the world many of whom couldn't afford OBH or just couldn't make it work.

To be perfectly honest I flew to Chicago for all 3 shows and I'm so happy I did. Nevertheless I would've liked some horns covers super deep tracks and more surprises. If the Beacon is a repeat of those shows then I'll be happy I went but they won't have lived up to my expectations of what these shows will be.

This is the easiest way for me to be genuine in what I think a lot of us want over the next 2.5 weeks but are afraid to say because none of us ARE or want to be perceived as ingrates.

Can't wait to be a part of all this.

-DGU

[mahg33ta]

To be perfectly honest I flew to Chicago for all 3 shows and I'm so happy I did. Nevertheless I would've liked some horns covers super deep tracks and more surprises. If the Beacon is a repeat of those shows then I'll be happy I went but they won't have lived up to my expectations of what these shows will be.

The Beacon will be like chicago with 20-23 more songs thrown into the aggregate setlist, and those songs will certainly be mostly rarities given what's left to be played after crossing off the 65 songs they played.   I have 100% confidence that people will be plenty happy with the deep tracks and surprises.

[parkervb]

yea, I'm going into the two shows I'll be seeing (Fri/Sat) with little expectations regarding deep cuts or rarities other than some educated guesses on "standards" might get played after the first two nights. I agree 100% agree with mahg33ta that we'll all leave satisfied regardless.

[kintante5]

Should we expect 4 nights of no repeats at the Beacon?  Or will Tuesday and Wednesday have no repeats and the same with Friday and Saturday?

[parkervb]

Should we expect 4 nights of no repeats at the Beacon?  Or will Tuesday and Wednesday have no repeats and the same with Friday and Saturday?

I would expect 4 nights of no repeats. Someone asked Jim recently if they would do another Terminal 5 thing and he said they kinda are with the Beacon shows.

[Stevie]

I used to go to their shows waiting to hear certain songs, sometimes expecting them w the spontaneous curation, but ive recently come to the conclusion that it makes no sense to expect or really even hope for certain things when it comes to jacket sets.  They are on their own wavelength and to me, now, it makes the most sense to come to the theater with a clean pallet and an open mind and try to catch whatever vibe they are throwing out.  That said, one can still hypothesize..

Ive got my theory on the nyc run and it goes like this:

Tuesday:  Mellow jacket ala SF night 1 and Austin night 1, but on a whole new level.  Lots of acoustic along w a ton of rare stuff.  Im predicting it will be (for those of us who have been to a ton of shows and really look forward to the rare stuff) one of if not the greatest jacket setlist since 2005 or 2006.  My daughter turns 8 that day and thats the only thing that could keep me from flying in for the night.   

Wednesday:  A very nice blend of hard and soft, old and new.  In terms of rarity, it will pale in comparison to night 1 but relative the rest of the tour it will be a very strong set. 

Friday and Sat:  Heavy hitters and hits with some deeper cuts mixed in.  Probably a lot like SF nights 2 and 3.

So there's that.  For my own sanity ihope im wrong about night 1 but ill be happy for you all if it goes down like i think it will.

[dookie shoot bandit]

Any plans to do something similar to your Terminal 5 residency from a few years ago with My Morning Jacket where the band played a different album each night?

We're kind of doing something close to that at the Beacon in November. We're doing four shows at the Beacon, so we'll probably get through a lot of our catalog.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/my-morning-jackets-jim-james-talks-roger-waters-david-lynch-meditation-20151001#ixzz3ry1lQGMG
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

[panack]

Well I love covers, but sounds like from the JJ interview that's not too likely (although SF did get an oh sweet nuthin). Top rarity cover for me is I could never take the place of your man.

Deep cut originals:
Just because I do
Old sept blues
Weeks go by like days

[dontgetupset]

You might get pissed (upset) for me writing this but if the Beacon setlists look like tonight's I'll be greatly disappointed.

I'm sure it was a rockin' show and for those that were there that didn't catch the Philly Remnants that was cool but- rightly or wrongly- I expect so much more out of the NY shows.

No horns, no covers, and one or two rarities per night simply won't cut it for me. Call me crazy. Say it's irrational to expect this from them whatever. Insight into what one fan expects.

[Stevie]

One thing you may want to think about when you are 'expecting' a ton of rarities....  They, especially Jim, have already played those songs hundreds of times and have since created a boatload of new music. Whether or not one era is subjectively better than another when it comes to their music, they probably enjoy playing their newer stuff a lot more than the older stuff. Hence the reason you see songs like State of the art and new life on the setlist rather than just because i do or if all else fails. 

However, just on math alone and given that the first two shows are tuesday and wednesday night, it seems likely that nyc 1 and 2 are ripe for potential rarities.

[dontgetupset]

Totally hear ya. Nobody needs me to say "everyone is entitled to their own preferences". There may actually be a handful of fans that come to the Beacon wanting to hear The Waterfall in toto and who knows? maybe they'll have their desires fulfilled.

There are more people though- even if they don't officially "upvote" my posts here- that are definitely expecting these shows to be *SPECIAL*. The Last 3 shows were not *SPECIAL* unless you want to argue ad absurdum that every show is special and therefore ipso facto...

In Port Chester 67 songs were played and 6 were from Circuital. That meant 61 pre-Circuital songs and covers. The past 3 nights featured 64 songs and 15 were from The Waterfall and 5 were from Circuital i.e. 44 pre-Circuital. I think if we get 11 or 12 or even 15 pre-Circuital songs per night that will be a letdown.

There are so many things that make this band awesome live. I expect most of those things to be present during these 4 shows but the past 2 New York multi-night stands were incredible and that's what I'm optimistic these will be too.

[getinthevan]

In Port Chester 67 songs were played and 6 were from Circuital. That meant 61 pre-Circuital songs and covers. The past 3 nights featured 64 songs and 15 were from The Waterfall and 5 were from Circuital i.e. 44 pre-Circuital. I think if we get 11 or 12 or even 15 pre-Circuital songs per night that will be a letdown.

First, over 3 nights in Port Chester they played all 10 songs from Circuital, plus Welcome Home and Octoplasm - both of which I think can be considered "Circuital-era songs".  If you want to throw numbers around, let's make sure they're correct. 

Second, you can't compare Port Chester to Philly AND Boston.  It would only be a fair comparison if they had claimed they were doing no repeats between the Boston and Philly shows.  It would be better to compare Port Chester with Chicago (66 songs, 18 Waterfall/Circuital) or San Francisco (65 songs, 17 Waterfall/Circuital).  But that doesn't take into consideration that there's an entire album of material that didn't exist when the Port Chester shows happened.  In addition to all their new songs, they've also been playing 3 New Basement Tapes songs, 2 of Jim's solo songs, and 1 of Carl's solo songs.

Instead of being concerned that these shows won't be "special" because there's a whole lot of music that's potentially taking up "pre-Circuital" space in the sets, just remember that they could be playing mostly newer songs with a few greatest hits sprinkled throughout the set, and maybe changing out a deep cut every night.  You should be glad that we're getting FOUR nights with NO REPEATS from a band who still plays songs from every one of their albums.  If that's not special, then I don't know what is. 

[jcc0065]

In Port Chester 67 songs were played and 6 were from Circuital. That meant 61 pre-Circuital songs and covers. The past 3 nights featured 64 songs and 15 were from The Waterfall and 5 were from Circuital i.e. 44 pre-Circuital. I think if we get 11 or 12 or even 15 pre-Circuital songs per night that will be a letdown.

First, over 3 nights in Port Chester they played all 10 songs from Circuital, plus Welcome Home and Octoplasm - both of which I think can be considered "Circuital-era songs".  If you want to throw numbers around, let's make sure they're correct. 

Second, you can't compare Port Chester to Philly AND Boston.  It would only be a fair comparison if they had claimed they were doing no repeats between the Boston and Philly shows.  It would be better to compare Port Chester with Chicago (66 songs, 18 Waterfall/Circuital) or San Francisco (65 songs, 17 Waterfall/Circuital).  But that doesn't take into consideration that there's an entire album of material that didn't exist when the Port Chester shows happened.  In addition to all their new songs, they've also been playing 3 New Basement Tapes songs, 2 of Jim's solo songs, and 1 of Carl's solo songs.

Instead of being concerned that these shows won't be "special" because there's a whole lot of music that's potentially taking up "pre-Circuital" space in the sets, just remember that they could be playing mostly newer songs with a few greatest hits sprinkled throughout the set, and maybe changing out a deep cut every night.  You should be glad that we're getting FOUR nights with NO REPEATS from a band who still plays songs from every one of their albums.  If that's not special, then I don't know what is.

BOOM. im so tired of people talking negatively on this forum. just be positive about it all

[dontgetupset]

Hi there. Sorry about the faulty math. I have no idea how I came up with those Circuital numbers off by 4.

JCC, this forum has almost no negativity whatsoever. In fact, there is almost no dissent at all on any topic ever. There's never a reason to resort to Trump-ian behavior and ad hominem attacks (which thankfully also almost never happen here) but the most robust message boards are those in which the most passionate fans can debate the minutiae surrounding the band or performer they love. To illustrate: after every single show on The Waterfall tour people show up in the forum and talk about how the show they saw the night before was either "the BEST they ever saw" or "one of the best they ever saw." It's getting a little ridiculous.

Getinthevan, the no repeats thing is great but its a major factor in their potentially selling out all 4 nights at the Beacon. It also is a way that they can ensure their most passionate fans show up. If they did what Radiohead did and switch up 1 2 or 3 songs per night I would NOT see them for 4 straight nights nor would almost anyone else in this forum (if it required traveling). I won't back down from the assertion that even if people are too scared to pipe up and say it: The most passionate fans want as little Circuital and The Waterfall as possible and want to see the kind of stuff that happens rarely if ever. The most passionate fans (myself included) would travel to see Jim play a couple of songs solo in a Barnes and Noble somewhere and appreciate it but the expectations are waaaaaaayyyyyyy higher for the Beacon run.

[dookie shoot bandit]

Hi there. Sorry about the faulty math. I have no idea how I came up with those Circuital numbers off by 4.

JCC, this forum has almost no negativity whatsoever. In fact, there is almost no dissent at all on any topic ever. There's never a reason to resort to Trump-ian behavior and ad hominem attacks (which thankfully also almost never happen here) but the most robust message boards are those in which the most passionate fans can debate the minutiae surrounding the band or performer they love. To illustrate: after every single show on The Waterfall tour people show up in the forum and talk about how the show they saw the night before was either "the BEST they ever saw" or "one of the best they ever saw." It's getting a little ridiculous.

Getinthevan, the no repeats thing is great but its a major factor in their potentially selling out all 4 nights at the Beacon. It also is a way that they can ensure their most passionate fans show up. If they did what Radiohead did and switch up 1 2 or 3 songs per night I would NOT see them for 4 straight nights nor would almost anyone else in this forum (if it required traveling). I won't back down from the assertion that even if people are too scared to pipe up and say it: The most passionate fans want as little Circuital and The Waterfall as possible and want to see the kind of stuff that happens rarely if ever. The most passionate fans (myself included) would travel to see Jim play a couple of songs solo in a Barnes and Noble somewhere and appreciate it but the expectations are waaaaaaayyyyyyy higher for the Beacon run.

You have decent points, and I see where you are coming from, but then you start talking for everyone else in the forum or calling what they say "ridiculous"...

- if you read through old posts, there are PLENTY debates about members voicing their opinion about more gems that should be played. So you have legs when you state your opinion about wanting more rare or older tunes, but don't try to say that people are too scared to say stuff, because the fact is, this has been a topic of discussion before you were probably even a member.

- to say that people's opinion is ridiculous, for saying that every show is their best, well that is actually ridiculous. The truth is, we are all fans of this unbelievably great band, and for me, with the exception of Bonnaroo 2006, because that one has special meaning to me, the last show of theirs that I see, is always my favorite. Just the fact of witnessing their greatness, I don't even think about rare songs while I'm there. Sure I would love to be like,"holy shit OXEN!!!" We all would.. But I try to take every show as its own crazy beautiful experience. Even if they play two shows with the same songs, I truly feel that they bring something new and different every time they play a song, every night. And yes, we are lucky that they do these multiple night runs with no repeats, but they don't have to. And if you don't buy a ticket, I'm sure someone else will.

Trust me! I want those songs too... But I have come to realize that if and when any of these songs get played, it will be that much crazier, when unexpected... It was insane when they went into Remnants in Philly... And more because no one was expecting it.
Just love the music... And enjoy the show!

[johnnYYac]

Note the Port Chester run was in 2012.  Circuital was released in 2011.  The band played as many Circuital tunes in 2011 as they've played The Waterfall tunes in 2015.  Make sense?

[getinthevan]

I agree that no repeats is a huge selling point, especially when doing a 4 night run like this.  However, I can't help but wonder how many people in attendance are aware of it.  Many of us on here know about it because they've talked about it in interviews, but I don't recall it being advertised or marketed that way.  The band clearly knows that they have a fan base that's willing and eager to travel to see them, especially for shows like these, but what percentage do we make up of the attendees of any given show?  I think that at some point, there's a line between pleasing the diehard fans with rare songs and not pushing away the more casual fans by playing a bunch of stuff they don't know.  I imagine it's a tough line to ride and it's these multi-night runs that give them a chance to make everyone happy. 

I won't back down from the assertion that even if people are too scared to pipe up and say it: The most passionate fans want as little Circuital and The Waterfall as possible and want to see the kind of stuff that happens rarely if ever.

Before I continue, I'd like to say that I disagree with what you said here.  I consider myself a passionate fan.  I don't feel the need to support that claim beyond saying that they have been my favorite band for more than a decade and that I have traveled and will travel to see them when life permits.  That being said, I had the good fortune to be at both Boston shows this weekend.  No, it wasn't the best shows I've ever seen, but they were still pretty damn great.  I got to hear my favorite band play 42 songs and this was my first chance to hear any of the new songs live.  When I look at it that way, I really don't care if I got I'm Amazed and not Honest Man.  I want to hear the rare songs just as much as everyone else here, but when I don't hear them, it doesn't take away from the overall experience. 

[dontgetupset]

DSB- Heaven forfend that I said that anybody or any specific thing said is ridiculous. No big deal that my words were misinterpreted but cntrl+f "ridiculous" on this page and see that I wrote "its getting a little ridiculous". That was me describing the Shows tab here where there really is almost no disagreement about much and every show is between an A and an A+. I hate to compare Phish fans and MMJ fans because of the obvious superiority of the latter but at least there are people that on any given Phish tour say that a show was "blah" and those that say it was "great." (I know I know. The nature of improvisational stuff is different but you get my point.")

Remnants on Thursday (and I'm sure in Boston) was awesome ESPECIALLY because of its placement- once the Flying V was out it was clear to all there that the encore was ending and OBH was starting. Still, I began this thread with the expectations that you would be able to look at a setlist from these shows and distinguish it from the Miami Beach show, the Grand Prairie show, or the Phoenix show. Those expectations were not met Thursday night nor would they have been with the Boston setlists. I expect more (feel free to disagree with those that have outsize expectations but I do).

Johnny, totally hear ya. I didn't mean to over quantify things but I think everyone knows what I mean. I expect (I'm entitled to nothing but I expect) a Friends Again followed by an Aluminum Park followed by a Butch Cassidy so that my jaw drops. Many of the biggest fans (I'm not including myself in that category since I've only been really caring since 2009) are traveling to these shows, in the city where some of the best shows ever have been, people are paying a lot, its a special time of the year, and they're the last shows of the tour. If Jim's larynx can't handle playing 28 songs in a night or for more than 130 minutes then I don't expect them to do it. If its takes dozens of hours to rehearse Weeks Go By Like Days then I don't expect them to spend 2 months getting rarities ready for one show then I don't expect them to. We all know they're certainly capable of blowing the roof off let's just hope it happens.

[dontgetupset]

Getinthevan- very very very solid points. I worded what I wrote about the Beacon and selling out the venue choosing my words carefully: The overwhelming majority of fans going have never visited the forum, don't know Bo Koster's name and aren't aware of any explicit "no repeats" pronouncement. That being said there's word of mouth, there's setlist.fm, and there's a certain logical expectation that 4 shows in a row at a venue have built in differentiations (I'm not talking about Lady Gaga at a stadium show). The thing about driving away casual fans in also a good point but I can understand that more in terms of playing Compound Fracture (or any given "radio song" at each show rather than playing "Tropics" which many people will not have hear upon entering the Beacon (feel free to disagree because I'm just making an educated guess).

I think you're confusing my "I expect more" at these shows and "nobody is allowed to leave happy unless 5 rarities are played." I had an amazing time at the Philly show and any chance to see them is a privilege. I hope there aren't people out there who can't enjoy Victory Dance because a) its not from the first 4/5 albums OR b) its not rare. Everything I'm discussing are conclusions reached upon being able to soberly reflect back on what I witnessed. I'm scheduled to attend 2 Beacon shows and I am ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE I and 99% of the people there will have a fantastic time.

To put it another way: Not having my expectations met equals mere disappointment after the fact but it does not equal a diminished experience while the music's playing.

And one final thing: the Shows discussions are not particularly lively here. Pick any thread over the last 4 months and almost all of what you'll read AFTER a show are fawning comments. Positive thoughts are great and I know everyone's expressed sentiments are true and heartfelt. But it doesn't make for thought-provoking discussion (nor do I think that I contribute towards thought-provoking discussion). I've gained insight into this matter from what y'all have responded and I love it. I would love to see it kept up day in day out.

[buymycar]

I guess I'm not a very passionate fan because I loved every Circuital and Waterfall tune I heard at the SF shows.

I have had a much better time at shows since I checked my jadedness at the door. If you go in with no expectations, then there's no chance of disappointment.