Another INSANE Steam Engine thread

[jesus christ]

And here I thought I had seen everything- apple pie with a hot dog in it?!
if you are the police, LOCK ME UP!

[aMD]

Here's the pecking order:

1) Riny (CC Baxter)
2) everyone else

There's nothing to be afraid of though, Riny's a good guy.  He's more of an organizer than a cop.  :)

[jesus christ]

I like organizers. I am one myself, you know.

[ItsAllSticky]

Yo Jesus, I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last 23 years!  I'm not trying to be an over-zealous fan or anything, but I caught that "Sermon at the mount" show you did a few millenniums back and it was SICK!  I got high with these guys named Peter and Paul (said they were friends of yours). Anyway, we had a blast.  Got a little tired of the whole "fish and loaves" thing, but that's a minor gripe.  So when is the next tour scheduled? I know, I know, you gotta usher in the apocalypse and everything, but what a great way to end a career that's given us such classics as "Jesus is just alright," "my sweet lord," and the entire discography of Faith + 1.  

Gotta go. Let's not make a big hairy deal out of this, but you and I both know that we may not see each other again after I die, so just keep on....keep truckin.

[jesus christ]

can't tell you when the next show will be, because my promoters are the worst. total slackers. anyway, sticky, don't be so sure of where you are going. 'the other side' is fairly relative.

[EC]

i wish that i could listen to it still moves right now.  it's been a while.

i always think about steam engine as a partner song with one and the same.  i don't hear them separate, and i'm not sure why i think that.  they sit so good together - they're married or something.

when i think about the "meaning" of steam engine, it's more like i'm looking at it from the corner of my eye and it's kind of a washy feely understanding - in that, i get maybe some kind of sense of it, but i can't explain it.  but i always thought the end part was those moments when you're with somebody that you really want to kiss, and it's taking forever, and it's like the end of the night, and you're so nervous but you really want to kiss them - and that's what i always thought the shaky knees was about.  or anyhow, that's where it sits in my peripheral vision.  

the end.  

i love music

[Chills]

when you're with somebody that you really want to kiss, and it's taking forever, and it's like the end of the night, and you're so nervous but you really want to kiss them - and that's what i always thought the shaky knees was about.  or anyhow, that's where it sits in my peripheral vision.  

i love music

Yeah, my vision of this song is pretty similar. That passage is like a distant cousin of "In the darkened underpass I thought oh god my chance has come at last, but then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask."  You know that tune. It's a moment filled with possibilities and thus also tension and nervousness.


"the poem is a raid on the inarticulate"  8-)

[EC]

obviously, chills, you are the belgian and male version of me.
or else i am the canadian and female version of you.
either way, we must be sharing a table somewhere in a coffee shop that lives in a higher dimension. :)

[Crispy]

I'm sure others have pointed this out, but I don't know how "What a Wonderful Man" is referencing Jesus Christ.  Maybe it is, but when Jim says "I was wanting some ice cream," I take the term "ice cream" to mean LSD, because ice cream is a type of really good LSD, and I don't know how Jesus would know Jim wanted some, but maybe Jesus does, and maybe ice cream doesn't mean acid in the song.

Maybe he was just wantin' some ice cream! I know I do! Jesus Christ, what a crazy thread! Oops, sorry, JC. Hey, here's to exclamation points! What's up with the whole son-of-myself thing and sacrificing yourself to appease yourself for future sins committed by people that you created?

[Chills]

either way, we must be sharing a table somewhere in a coffee shop that lives in a higher dimension. :)

Well there's a nice image  :D

[tomEisenbraun]

I'm sure others have pointed this out, but I don't know how "What a Wonderful Man" is referencing Jesus Christ.  Maybe it is, but when Jim says "I was wanting some ice cream," I take the term "ice cream" to mean LSD, because ice cream is a type of really good LSD, and I don't know how Jesus would know Jim wanted some, but maybe Jesus does, and maybe ice cream doesn't mean acid in the song.

Maybe he was just wantin' some ice cream! I know I do! Jesus Christ, what a crazy thread! Oops, sorry, JC. Hey, here's to exclamation points! What's up with the whole son-of-myself thing and sacrificing yourself to appease yourself for future sins committed by people that you created?

and we come to that moement where the Church ultimately fails in any explanation of what Jesus was ever about--there's a point where you can only make a science out of it so far, and they've beat that into the ground to the point where it defies any sort of logic to anyone who doesn't speak the right slang. Screw that shit.

I'm not much for all of that anymore. I should find my old thread where I decided to take on everyone in the forum on their religious beliefs, thinking I had some sort of an answer at age 17, and you didn't understand good logic if you didn't believe in the full tenets and power and gifts of the church. Once again, screw that shit.

Jesus was about love. If he existed, if he didn't, I don't know that it makes a difference. Does it make one to you? What does Jesus represent? He was this awesome anti-establishment, fuck-religious-authority, love-everybody-no-matter-who kind of guy--he got pissed and flipped tables, and stayed the hell away from churches unless he needed to make a point inside one. He took the entire of thousands of years of biblical law, summed it up into two points and told people that was all they needed and the rest came from there, and thumbed his nose at the high priests of Judaism with that--he served as a huge reminder that "Hey, the good in you is in your heart. If you understand that and go looking for it, you'll find it." I don't know how to explain a lot of what the gospels claim he did, I don't have much info on the inclusion of certain gospels in the Bible, and I really don't know a whole hell of a lot about Bible history in general, but I think I'm getting the point of Jesus. Like I said, does it matter if he lived or not? I'm under the impression that your faith shouldn't be ruled by church doctrine. I tried hard to live that one through high school and the first couple of years of college, and throughout completely failed to miss the simple truths of how we work. I haven't set foot in church since probably Easter now, and I'm actually pretty okay with it. If you rely on doctrine to define your faith, then you've let a whole lot of other people do the thinking for you. If you're okay with that, no sweat, but if you're searching for the deeper truth of it, I think you've got to stand everything up to your gut-appeal to the truth. I can't justify all the garbage wrapped up around Jesus' death and resurrection and the atonement of sins and all of the catchphrases we've got to describe all of it within the church. I'm pretty sure he died--I don't know what I can say about his resurrection. I kind of have the feeling that, as he gave all his lessons through parables, it might make sense that he died in a parable, too. Surely someone's worked hard to disprove that. History works pretty well to show that he did exist. So that's cool. I don't know about the resurrection. What I can say is that if someone came along and proved he didn't rise again, it wouldn't shatter my faith. If Jesus did marry and have a daughter, it wouldn't change how I live my life. Or if they proved he didn't perform a miracle.

It's about the deeper ideas behind all that--Love, basically, I think. And if you spend your life on a quest after love, I think you've got yourself on the right path. God is love, we're reminded of in 1 John 4:something, and while I'm not so sure I'm a huge fan of Paul's letters now, I do know that he's onto something right there--God is love and seeking after love, we seek after God, and seeking God has to be seeking after Love. Jesus is wrapped up in that somewhere--there's all sorts of "inside your heart" talk--I don't know about the physical validity of all that, but there's definitely a shift in mindset when you're on the right path towards realizing Love as best you can.

Dangit, who's still reading this? I don't know if I should say thanks or offer some sort of condolences or even say "what the hell are you taking stock in all this for?" At best, I'm a Christian who found himself shafted by the failure of the institution and is a skeptic now at best. The truth I know I've had to find personally, and I think we all need to--otherwise, what does reading someone else's words mean to you until you validate them? You can read every self-help book in the world, but what does all that mean if you only go "hmm" after each one and never put into practice what you read about? It's in your practice of these things that the depth of the truth comes out--once you actually se it work, or see it proved, you've found a reason to have that practice or whatever hold validity for you.

Test truth to find that it is indeed truth.

I think the Bible uses language that is quite mystical at best for something that is actually very earthy and human and visceral. Grandiose language, all these high names for God and Jesus, all these dang rules, and all the fear of the "danger" of other religions and their insights into the search for the same truth are all great tools to build a pretty big alienating empire on, I think. But I don't need to get into Church politic--that just gets me angry.

Once again, why the hell are you still reading this? Congrats for making it this far--you really probably could've done a lot more good with your time, and I'm sorry if all this offends or alienates anyone on the board or gives someone some good anger or unease to spew back at any and all of this. Please do if you can write it down--I need as many challenges as I can get to help solidify what it is I actually stand for now. Thanks for reading this if you've made it this far--I hope it helped or something to that effect. I hope you enjoyed my repetition in the last paragraph. Remind me not to start typing things like this at 2:30am from now on....

[jesus christ]

[size=22]I LOVE TOM EISENBRAUN. [/size]  Finally, somebody gets it!

[pawpaw]

I'm right here with you Tom. Good job.

[EAZYE]

You sure are an interesting cat Tom  8-)  I always enjoy reading your posts.  Well spoken.

[tomEisenbraun]

haha, anything you guys'd like to add or challenge?

I'm not doctrine by any means--far from it, in fact. I'd like to hear y'all's takes. Maybe this deserves a thread in off-topic? I really don't want to be the guy to start that one up--I've given myself a justified bad wrap on the subject a few years ago, but it's something quite important to me, which I guess is why I'll get so fired up about it. Especially when people don't listen or claim that one thing is something that it isn't. Anyway, I'd like to hear y'all's takes on the whole Jesus deal.

[pawpaw]

I will put some effort into this, probably not until the weekend though. Work is pretty hairy right now...gunna be a late next few nights. I like your questioning approach, and share a fairly similar view of Jesus as you, though I don't have the extended Christian background...

[kyjed48]

Tom, you pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly.  It's good to hear other people share very similar beliefs.  Love is the answer to all of it.

[Crispy]

haha, anything you guys'd like to add or challenge?

I'm not doctrine by any means--far from it, in fact. I'd like to hear y'all's takes. Maybe this deserves a thread in off-topic? I really don't want to be the guy to start that one up--I've given myself a justified bad wrap on the subject a few years ago, but it's something quite important to me, which I guess is why I'll get so fired up about it. Especially when people don't listen or claim that one thing is something that it isn't. Anyway, I'd like to hear y'all's takes on the whole Jesus deal.

I'm with you for the most part Tom (I think), that Jesus was a real person who walked the talk. His beliefs about treating other people well, and standing up and helping those who need it, and his fight against injustice by both Romans and Jewish folks in that time - those things are great and admirable. That is, those things that are pretty much accepted as fact. What I don't buy is anything that people have attributed to him (or any religious icon for that matter) since his life ended. That means 3 days later too. It all boils down to one thing for me, and that's the Golden Rule, and I don't think we need an invisible man or a monster made of pasta up in the sky threatening us with never-ending baths in molten lava to make us stick to it.

[aMD]

must. avoid. temptation. to start an argument!

:-X

i'm trying to be good, people.  I'm trying REAL hard.

[tomEisenbraun]

must. avoid. temptation. to start an argument!

:-X

i'm trying to be good, people.  I'm trying REAL hard.

Let's hear it man! I'd love to have a good discussion about all this with you involved in it. But let's shoot for a little bit more peaceable of a "discussion" rather than an argument.