Let's change the Music Industry!

[tower]

And some actually did it to express themselves without a thought of making money, imagine that.

 those people are usually losers and only get laid b/c they wear expensive jewellery.  

Laid, paid...is there a difference?

Anyway, I'm a musician and I would love to make it my job!  I'm making a record right now and I can tell you with all honesty that I hope it becomes wildly popular, we sell a ton of them and I can quit my day job.  I'm just saying that in this market and the way the industry has changed its worth thinking about using the CD as a marketing tool (response to the previous post).  I love the idea of making a record that is a comprehensive piece of work, an actual album that fits together and works as a unified piece. Unfortunately I'm not convinced that most people consume music that way anymore. As a side note I rarely buy CD's but I do buy them from the bands I really dig and if at all possible, directly from them...despite getting the Big Head Todd CD free in the mail I actually bought it when they offered it for sale, granted they offered an DVD accompanied with it...but I would have bought merch or something else if I hadn't bought the CD.

The idea of making your living off your live performances certainly holds merit.  It used to be that bands toured to promote their record...I think great bands now view it the other way around, if for no other reason than they have to.  The thought of making their living off record/CD/iTunes sales is not so realistic anymore.

And while music is "fun" in many ways, recording and honing a live show is tedious and takes a lot of concentration.  When I leave to work on our recording my wife always says, "have fun"...somehow she doesn't understand the process well enough to figure out after 10 hours of working on overdubs I'm fried.

All that being said, I hope everyone on this board buys our new record when it comes out this summer and I can quit my job and come play for you in your town and be a big, big star wearing expensive jewelry and getting laid!  One of the board members here (LizKing531) is actually working on artwork for it and it looks great!

[EC]

sorry that i got so hot up there.  it's useless to get so emotional about this stuff.  it also makes you look bad and also makes it hard to get your point across properly.

i hope your new record is very popular and you get to quit your job, too, tower.  i think that is the goal of most people who are trying to make it work in the land of music. :)

[tower]

No sweat, didn't take anything personally...everyone's got their own ideas and in a perfect world people would value good music and musicians and pay for their efforts (guess I'll find out if I'm one of them) and treat the shitty overproduced and contrived pop music like a turd on the side of the road.

It's tough as a musician who "hasn't made it" when making a record.  Do we put the most "radio friendly" songs on it or do we put the songs we like most and hope people "get it"?  And who even knows what "radio friendly" is...alright enough quote marks for now.

Speaking of musicians on here, if you guys haven't checked out Lauderdale, their record is really good!  I think they should make it, but what do I know.

[bluntmaster]

No sweat, didn't take anything personally...everyone's got their own ideas and in a perfect world people would value good music and musicians and pay for their efforts (guess I'll find out if I'm one of them) and treat the shitty overproduced and contrived pop music like a turd on the side of the road.

It's tough as a musician who "hasn't made it" when making a record.  Do we put the most "radio friendly" songs on it or do we put the songs we like most and hope people "get it"?  And who even knows what "radio friendly" is...alright enough quote marks for now.

Speaking of musicians on here, if you guys haven't checked out Lauderdale, their record is really good!  I think they should make it, but what do I know.

neil young said it good once, as soon as you start to appease people they get bored.  just be yourself, do your thing, take criticism, and play your fucking heart out.  what else can you do?  fuck the haters, what's wrong with playing music that gets you off?  fuck trying to read peoples mind.  that's just my thoughts on that part of things.

I played and toured in a band for a couple years pretty hard and it wasn't exactly a balling lifestyle.  a lot of fun but splitting up 300-400 bucks average between 4-5 people every few nights isn't really that great of a living unless you've got a good promoter.  there's this band "bump" whose from around my area and they fucking suck ass but have a good promoter and get on festivals like 10klf and whatnot, make 30-40k a year.  but they suck.  so to me the whole system is fucked.  unless you have a connection right now to a good promoter or you already have a huge draw, most musicians are dead in the water before they even start.

[EC]

Speaking of musicians on here, if you guys haven't checked out Lauderdale, their record is really good!  I think they should make it, but what do I know.

yes i think so, too.  plus they're all awesome.

neil young said it good once, as soon as you start to appease people they get bored.  just be yourself, do your thing, take criticism, and play your fucking heart out.  what else can you do?  fuck the haters, what's wrong with playing music that gets you off?  fuck trying to read peoples mind.  that's just my thoughts on that part of things.

yes x fourty billion eight hundred and sixty-seven

to me the whole system is fucked.  unless you have a connection right now to a good promoter or you already have a huge draw, most musicians are dead in the water before they even start.

it can be a very frustrating world.  i don't understand it.  whenever i start thinking about things in terms of "business moves", i get all messed up.  then i take a break and remember what's important.  and then everything is better again, and i find the joy.

there is no point, zero, in doing music unless there is joy.  fundamental joy, even through the shitty and stupid and ridiculous.

tower, what are your plans with this record?  are you going to release it yourself and tour with it?  or are you hoping to get a label to pick it up before you release it?  is this your first time putting something out?  i have a little bit of experience putting out indie records on a label that i started, and i would be happy to pass on anything i've learned, or answer any questions (if i can) that you have.  you can pm me if you want.

[bluntmaster]

it can be a very frustrating world.  i don't understand it.  whenever i start thinking about things in terms of "business moves", i get all messed up.  then i take a break and remember what's important.  and then everything is better again, and i find the joy.

there is no point, zero, in doing music unless there is joy.  fundamental joy, even through the shitty and stupid and ridiculous.
[/quote]

definitely, I loved playing live. there's really nothing that compares to it. now though I feel much more satisfied lately locking myself away and just recording and filtering through all the ideas in my head.  another thing with "promoting" music is you have to pick a certain # of songs and those are what people end up knowing you as.  it's almost like people want you in a box so they're familiar and it's easy for them to grasp.  which a lot of the time seems to be the opposite.  I like what dave matthews said too, "music existed before words".   I love making music more than almost anything in the world I just hate all the bullshit baggage that comes with it in order to be "successful".   more bands and vocalists or whatever you'd call them seem to be fixated on being famous, being a "rock star", like being a celebrity and all you need for that is money, a pretty face, hot body, and know how to twerk that shit.

[EC]

where i'm not entirely sure i agree with the plea to call the government into action, i think there are a couple of interesting points in this facebook group's mission:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=672445647#/group.php?gid=17408766786&ref=mf
(you have to be on fb, i guess, to see this)

here, i'll just repost it:

Although live music performance is multi-sensually stimulating, Recorded Music has the ability to capture unique auditory moments and replay them for future life experiences. When our memories of live music performances fade or cease to exist with the passing of their creators, Recorded Music preserves and secures rich cultural references for future generations of music listeners. Whereas file sharing has contributed to the severe devaluation of Recorded Music and negatively impacted the financial viability of all individuals involved in the production of Recorded Music, we as a music appreciating society are compelled to pursue and support innovative compensation strategies to preserve the future of Recorded Music.

Morally, those who are passionate about Recorded music must once again realize the intrinsic value of an art form that has the ability to inspire the masses. From the urban sprawl to isolated rural communities we need to champion a message that conveys the importance of supporting the Recording Artist. This is not about the elite Recording Artists/Bands that are making the millions...this is about the majority of Artists who are living well below the poverty line in their pursuit of enriching our world with their passion for music.

Together we need to lobby our jurisdictional governments to take action... Remember to let your voice be heard at the ballot boxes. We must challenge our respective representatives to implement legislative changes to reinvest in the music industry infrastructure. This must go beyond token cultural grants to establishing fiscal frameworks that will stimulate the global music economy.

As Recorded Music lovers, Songwriters, Performing Artists, and others involved in music production or distribution we must unite to send a global message .....Stop! The Devaluation of Recorded Music.

[bluntmaster]

where i'm not entirely sure i agree with the plea to call the government into action, i think there are a couple of interesting points in this facebook group's mission:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=672445647#/group.php?gid=17408766786&ref=mf
(you have to be on fb, i guess, to see this)

here, i'll just repost it:

Although live music performance is multi-sensually stimulating, Recorded Music has the ability to capture unique auditory moments and replay them for future life experiences. When our memories of live music performances fade or cease to exist with the passing of their creators, Recorded Music preserves and secures rich cultural references for future generations of music listeners. Whereas file sharing has contributed to the severe devaluation of Recorded Music and negatively impacted the financial viability of all individuals involved in the production of Recorded Music, we as a music appreciating society are compelled to pursue and support innovative compensation strategies to preserve the future of Recorded Music.

Morally, those who are passionate about Recorded music must once again realize the intrinsic value of an art form that has the ability to inspire the masses. From the urban sprawl to isolated rural communities we need to champion a message that conveys the importance of supporting the Recording Artist. This is not about the elite Recording Artists/Bands that are making the millions...this is about the majority of Artists who are living well below the poverty line in their pursuit of enriching our world with their passion for music.

Together we need to lobby our jurisdictional governments to take action... Remember to let your voice be heard at the ballot boxes. We must challenge our respective representatives to implement legislative changes to reinvest in the music industry infrastructure. This must go beyond token cultural grants to establishing fiscal frameworks that will stimulate the global music economy.

As Recorded Music lovers, Songwriters, Performing Artists, and others involved in music production or distribution we must unite to send a global message .....Stop! The Devaluation of Recorded Music.

yeah they started off good but kind of lost me at the end.  the easiest way I could put it is there are public libraries where you can rent out books for free.  if you wanted you could even copy pages out of them for reports and stuff.  I think music is that same type of valuable information.  bob dylan said music can tell you how to live.  and that seems true right?  just like literature, only its sung and heard through the ears.  music has inspired certain movements.  all sorts of stuff.  then you have the whole cultural aspect of world music and having the possibilities to really understanding other societies better.  learning about music that has never been touched by the system and is just pure.  music to me, this is all totally just opinion but it seems like one of the easiest ways to get certain messages across but since here in the US for example the music we listen to is controlled, people aren't exposed to anything inspiring whatsoever. there's a video on google of naom chomski talking about the propaganda machine working up through school, even when we're little.  I see music as part of the same thing.  it's limiting our perspective of the world not giving people access to it.  all artist deserve rights and money and all that, but I think more so then say a painting music should be spread more freely.

how I have no idea, but I think if we were playing more intelligent, outspoken, or experimental music even on the radio people would be more inspired to actually change other shit.  kinda just a theory but it seems like cause and reaction and music is a really good way to get people to react to stuff.  

[bluntmaster]

it's really cool what you're doing tom, I don't know if I've send it yet or not this threads been goin a few days.  keep up the good work

[Goat Boy]

I pretty much agree with Bluntmaster and the David Byrne article.  Artists and labels have to roll with the digital tide here r else become extinct  The cat is out of the bag.  Deal with it.  Record labels will still survive I daresay.  They're like fucking cockroaches.  However they will be very much reduced in power and influence (hurrah!) and hopefully this will see the power switch from the labels to the artists.  The way it should be.  As for pre releases bands should do what Radiohead did and put the album as soon as it's complete on their website.  They can then sell this at various different bit rates including lossless and at different prices.  Include jpg's as well so people can print out the sleeve etc.  The CD will still be released at a later date but the future of music distribution is ONLINE.  All the way.  Don't fight it, embrace it would be my advice to the labels.  But this should be obvious.

As for the value of music what people have to realise is that music is nowhere near as important as it once was.  It has nowhere near the cultural impact or force it did, say back in 1968.  It is ephemeral.  It's a mp3 file on a pc.  A file on a mobile.  The world has changed.  Plus kids have so many other things to amuse them.  Shit, video games are bigger than music now imo.  Look at the hype and coverage of GTA 4.  Again, live with it.  CD's will soon appear like vinyl did.  A relic of a bygone era.  It's sad but that's the way things are going.

And MMJ Fanatic - do you work for the record industry?  Unless it was a joke?  It has to be a joke.  Unless you like getting fucked up the ass till you bleed by the record industry?  Shut down all online file sharing sites?  Get rid of cd burners?  Madness and complete fantasy.

[EC]

apologies to everybody who's seen the various places i've written this, but tom - i think you should read musicophilia - i think it might really interest you.  i've always thought that music was the most universally accessible way to bring people together at the same time.  it's listening, but it's also physical, highly emotional, sometimes visual (think about people who see colours with various notes or chords, or begin to "see" imagery when music is heard).  everybody's on the same page at a concert - they're experiencing time at all times - they remember when the song (or show) began, they hear everything as it's passing, they can begin to figure out what might be coming next, and if they know the song, they'll kind of know when it will end.  stick 10,000 people in one place and everybody is going to be sharing a collective unconscious while heart of gold plays.  

anyhow, goatboy, you're right.  i loved reading that david byrne article a few months ago.  there's no point "fighting" how everything is flowing - it's pointless.  there are creative ways to try to keep within what exists.  but i'm not sure if cds are dead.  people thought books would die because of computers, and i still buy books.  do kids buy books?  maybe kids don't buy books anymore.  but they're probably reading information via the internets.

ok, i referred to this in the fleet foxes thread, but i did have a pretty intense dream the other night.  have you guys gone to their website and seen what kind of touring schedule they're on?  these guys JUST FINISHED THEIR FIRST TOUR.  and now they're going to open for wilco.  what in the fuck?  that doesn't happen anymore - not like that. that internet "leak" was the most amazing thing.  and i'll be the first to admit that i haven't researched too far, but, i don't really think there were crazy amounts of press and stuff from sub pop at that time...  in fact, i think they had just signed or something.

so does that mean that this whole thing spread from word of mouth?  (or the modern equivalent, file sharing?)  because if that's the case, fuck it, we're going to be just fine.

[dragonboy]

ok, i referred to this in the fleet foxes thread, but i did have a pretty intense dream the other night.  have you guys gone to their website and seen what kind of touring schedule they're on?  these guys JUST FINISHED THEIR FIRST TOUR.  and now they're going to open for wilco.  what in the fuck?  that doesn't happen anymore - not like that. that internet "leak" was the most amazing thing.  and i'll be the first to admit that i haven't researched too far, but, i don't really think there were crazy amounts of press and stuff from sub pop at that time...  in fact, i think they had just signed or something.

I was looking at this earlier. I love all the ?!!s & WTFs?!! on their myspace page regarding their sold out shows in the UK/slots opening for Wilco  :)

[EC]

i know - it's totally awesome. :)

those boys are about to do some pretty intense things while being fairly fresh from the oven.  they seem like sensible and nice boys.  i'm sure they can handle it.

[bluntmaster]

holy shit, I think I figured something out.  I'm sure it's been thought of before by someone but after reading that new interview with jim and carl under "the band" section I got a sense of the other view point from jim's words and it gave me another part of the solution.

I want to quote the whole thing but the sites down now.  the one point he said about the old days giving your friend a record, "vinyl" is the word he used and telling them to listen to it in it's entirety, maybe 8 to 10 times or whatever then who knows maybe you'll get it if you don't like it the first time.  totally right on.  then he goes further to compare now to the 40s or 50s I believe since people are downloading only "singles" or one song at a time.  essentially making their own playlist.

this article is old but when I read it it really made me think about a lot of things:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html?referrer=emailarticle

it's basically about this world class violinist playing in the subway, million dollar + violin, etc and is a study on how many people stop to listen, look up to check it out, etc.  

start up.  stop selling mp3s one at a time, as a band make it a police to only sell the album as one thing(make it your own personal call as a musician), opposed to a bunch of seperate tracks.  

another bad ass thing david byrne said was something about how it could take him two weeks just to write an intro to a song compared to some other person who makes a song in one day and the price is the same on itunes for the two different songs.  is that logical?  should labor/skill/etc be a factor, like higher grade art should cost more money then the more manufactured prints or whatever other bs.  since companies technically are making way more money on cds by artists like ms. spears and bsb or whomever else unbreaks your heart american idol style, they should have more money to put elsewhere in the company which would be longevity acts like Radiohead, Pearl Jam,   My Morning Jacket :),  and the new and fresher ones that start popping up.  record companies need to realize once again that some music can still age over time and maybe one day because huge.  that hope seems lost and they just want to make their buck before it burns to the ground.  blah blah sorry just rambling again.    

my point to this being i download only full albums.  rarely do I ever just download one song, I still do enjoy the experience of listening to an album all the way through.  I appreciate that part of the art dearly.  the technology is still growing and is not quite where it needs to be.  I will say having every single one of my favorite albums plus tons of stuff I've been waiting or wanting to explore all right there in my pocket is nice.

sometimes I think about cds still since I just got the ipod as a christmas present in 07, but then I just look at the stacks and stacks and stacks of cds scattered all around my cd player, the two huge 4 up CD books that i have full, then having to filter through them one by one and find a cd while I'm working (a luxury I would die without).  it's just not as practical.  once the whole bitrate/lossless/quality issue is handled, which it will be, I think people might start accepting mp3s or whatever other audio format that comes out more openly.  we're in like 4/5's of the way through the change it feels like.  I don't know, if artists are worried about people not hearing it how its supposed to be then make it only available the way they want it....