NBA 2010-11

[Ruckus]

agree with ilikebeer to a good extent. i'm a UGA fan, and we have a solid veteran team this year...but it just ain't fair that kentucky can bring in an entirely new cast of freshmen this year & prob take home the SEC East.

at least college football keeps the kids around for a couple years...no one recruiting class can have that immediate of impact right away (also the nature of the game though)

Which is why its not even feasible in the NFL, an 18yr old 99% of the time would get slaughtered. Adrian Peterson is about the only guy I could think of who was so ahead of the curve his freshman yr that he arguably couldve gone straight to the pros.

The best of best in HS for basketball can go straight to the pros, although that doesnt necessarily mean the best player annually. Some years have more talent than others. It hurts college basketball, but hey, plenty of players have shown theyre ready for the NBA at that point. I just saw today that NBA players sent a new petition or something along those lines to lower the age requirement.

Jumping straight to the NBA and NFL are real gambles for high schoolers since these leagues have no minor leagues to fall back on, although the elite players in the CFL (not a minor league, just a distinctly different and far less lucrative) make a decent living. The NBA-DL is a joke. I believe players make $20-25 grand. We are seeing a lot more 18-year-old NHL rookies (18 is the youngest draft eligible age), but most make an impact at 20-23; the AHL is a good league, but you wouldn't want to try to retire earning a 2-way contract for 10 years. MLB has the best minors and it's a good thing since it's nearly impossible to make the Bigs right out of high school.

Hey Cap.  I gotta disagree with you on the physicality argument.  That has just been bantered about as justification for the NFL rule but essentially what is going on is collusion between the NCAA and the NFL and NBA.  If you ask me, both the NBA and NFL have a monopoly on a unique sector of employment and implement these rules for the mutual benefit of the NCAA and the two professional leagues.  Unlike hockey, soccer and baseball, NCAA basketball and football are multi-billion dollar industries.  By keeping these rules, the NCAA makes it's money while the professional leagues have a natural developmental league that they do not have to fund because both would be net losses.  

If you guys haven't read the case and have some legal curiosity, check out the Clarett v. NFL case which you can find now on Google scholar.  Essentially, the federal district court found the NFL to be a monopoly and declared that Clarett be made eligible after 2 years.  The federal appellate court overturned this ruling on the basis of what is called the non-statutory labor exemption.  Basically, for policy reasons, the courts have ruled that we should favor labor law over antitrust law.  Therefore, the appellate court held that Clarett had no standing to challenge the NFL rule because it was collectively bargained between the league and the players union, neither of which Clarett was a party to thus rendering any decision as to whether the NFL has a monopoly or not moot.  Fun stuff right? ;D

Personally I think it's a joke more for the exploitation of collegiate athletes with no other avenue to be compensated for their unique skill sets.

[the_wizzard]

I think I must be alone in the fact that I think the NBA should raise the college requirement (ie 2-3 years in college or for an overseas team).  Sure, there is a small number of excellent players who can transition straight from HS to the NBA.  But I must emphasize a small number.  My view is not based on personal talent, but experience working on a team.  Working with coaches.  Working under pressure.  
I am a Blazer fan and we just sent Babbitt to the D-League so he can get some experience.  And he was drafted after 2 years in college....
Waste of time and money, IMO.  He should have stayed at Nevada for another year, honed his skills as a team player while getting minutes and then entered the draft.
Dante Cunningham, on the other hand, completed 4 years at Villanova and was ready for the NBA at the get-go.
Just my opinion of course.  

[Ruckus]

I think I must be alone in the fact that I think the NBA should raise the college requirement (ie 2-3 years in college or for an overseas team).  Sure, there is a small number of excellent players who can transition straight from HS to the NBA.  But I must emphasize a small number.  My view is not based on personal talent, but experience working on a team.  Working with coaches.  Working under pressure.  
I am a Blazer fan and we just sent Babbitt to the D-League so he can get some experience.  And he was drafted after 2 years in college....
Waste of time and money, IMO.  He should have stayed at Nevada for another year, honed his skills as a team player while getting minutes and then entered the draft.
Dante Cunningham, on the other hand, completed 4 years at Villanova and was ready for the NBA at the get-go.
Just my opinion of course.  

I don't think you are alone at all Wiz.  I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.  If it is going to be such a detriment to a team to reach for a youngster, they shouldn't do it.  If you are banking on upside, be prepared to accept the risk as well.  At least some American kids are starting to go to Europe after high school or for some before they finish.  I say more power to 'em.  Get paid for something you are good at and don't be used by the bullshit NCAA system of labor exploitation.

[.Walt]

 Get paid for something you are good at and don't be used by the bullshit NCAA system of labor exploitation.

I agree with you. Let them get paid.

As a Wolves fan I'm for drafting outta high school. If KG wasn't able to be drafted, the Wolves would've left town a decade ago. And that means no Kevin Love in MN. And Kevin Love is fucking sick. Another 20/20 game for him last night. The Wolves are horrible, but they're fun to watch this year.

[Jaimoe]

 Get paid for something you are good at and don't be used by the bullshit NCAA system of labor exploitation.

I agree with you. Let them get paid.

As a Wolves fan I'm for drafting outta high school. If KG wasn't able to be drafted, the Wolves would've left town a decade ago. And that means no Kevin Love in MN. And Kevin Love is fucking sick. Another 20/20 game for him last night. The Wolves are horrible, but they're fun to watch this year.

The NCAA system is all about exploitation, so pay the players. Then again, isn't offering scholorships a form of getting paid. College ain't cheap, even JC or community college. Post-seconday school in Canada doesn't provide sports scholorships, so some of our elite b-ball, football and hockey players head south looking for a free ride. The thing I don't like is only a small fraction of college players will ever make it to the next level; and some to many that don't make it often don't graduate.

[the_wizzard]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

[Ruckus]

 Get paid for something you are good at and don't be used by the bullshit NCAA system of labor exploitation.

I agree with you. Let them get paid.

As a Wolves fan I'm for drafting outta high school. If KG wasn't able to be drafted, the Wolves would've left town a decade ago. And that means no Kevin Love in MN. And Kevin Love is fucking sick. Another 20/20 game for him last night. The Wolves are horrible, but they're fun to watch this year.

The NCAA system is all about exploitation, so pay the players. Then again, isn't offering scholorships a form of getting paid. College ain't cheap, even JC or community college. Post-seconday school in Canada doesn't provide sports scholorships, so some of our elite b-ball, football and hockey players head south looking for a free ride. The thing I don't like is only a small fraction of college players will ever make it to the next level; and some to many that don't make it often don't graduate.

Therein lies the problem Jaimoe.  The scholarship system is socialist in nature and in no way compensates athletes proportionally to their value.  Additionally, they work at least 25 hours at week on their respective sports year around while not being allowed to work for pay or receive any money from anyone that is not one of their relatives.  As we all know, many of these kids are poor as fuck.  Shoot, I paid my way through college but at least I was able to work for spending money.

How much to you think the rest of the Auburn athletic program coffers will benefit from Cam Newton?

As for the graduation rate, it just proves the nature of the exploitation.  A majority of these kids wouldn't even have graduated from a crappy public high school, let alone considered college were it not for this athletic talent assembly line.  An they for sure aren't gonna graduate legitimately.  I had the fortune of reading some of Illinois football players' academic papers.  Yeah :-/

[Ruckus]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

It's the result, not the intent here.  All I'm saying is that the NCAA has an illegitimate monopoly on intercollegiate athletics for profit while helping to deny certain athletes of their actual market earning power through collusion with the NBA in this case.  While I don't disagree that an extended rule would benefit the NBA, in no other employment sector is one denied the ability to competently work when you have reached majority age except for certain professions that require certification because of the effect you can have on other individuals.
EDIT:  My apologies for coming off like a dick here Wiz. ;D  It's just a topic that grinds my gears. [smiley=beer.gif]

[Crispy]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

It's the result, not the intent here.  All I'm saying is that the NCAA has an illegitimate monopoly on intercollegiate athletics for profit while helping to deny certain athletes of their actual market earning power through collusion with the NBA in this case.  While I don't disagree that an extended rule would benefit the NBA, in no other employment sector is one denied the ability to competently work when you have reached majority age except for certain professions that require certification because of the effect you can have on other individuals.
EDIT:  My apologies for coming off like a dick here Wiz. ;D  It's just a topic that grinds my gears. [smiley=beer.gif]

Maybe "certification" is the way we should view what's going on -- the effects on impressionable youth by the actions of immature athletes in the public eye is not negligible.

It may be unintentionally racist, but I wonder if the same would situation would be true if white guys could jump.

/tongue planted firmly in cheek

[Ruckus]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

It's the result, not the intent here.  All I'm saying is that the NCAA has an illegitimate monopoly on intercollegiate athletics for profit while helping to deny certain athletes of their actual market earning power through collusion with the NBA in this case.  While I don't disagree that an extended rule would benefit the NBA, in no other employment sector is one denied the ability to competently work when you have reached majority age except for certain professions that require certification because of the effect you can have on other individuals.
EDIT:  My apologies for coming off like a dick here Wiz. ;D  It's just a topic that grinds my gears. [smiley=beer.gif]

Maybe "certification" is the way we should view what's going on -- the effects on impressionable youth by the actions of immature athletes in the public eye is not negligible.

It may be unintentionally racist, but I wonder if the same would situation would be true if white guys could jump.

/tongue planted firmly in cheek

Well we better start certifying Hollywood actors, TV stars and rock stars too.  

Imagine if music school competition was the rage so guitarists couldn't sign a record deal until they were 21. ;D  Tongue planted firmer in cheek

[Crispy]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

It's the result, not the intent here.  All I'm saying is that the NCAA has an illegitimate monopoly on intercollegiate athletics for profit while helping to deny certain athletes of their actual market earning power through collusion with the NBA in this case.  While I don't disagree that an extended rule would benefit the NBA, in no other employment sector is one denied the ability to competently work when you have reached majority age except for certain professions that require certification because of the effect you can have on other individuals.
EDIT:  My apologies for coming off like a dick here Wiz. ;D  It's just a topic that grinds my gears. [smiley=beer.gif]

Maybe "certification" is the way we should view what's going on -- the effects on impressionable youth by the actions of immature athletes in the public eye is not negligible.

It may be unintentionally racist, but I wonder if the same would situation would be true if white guys could jump.

/tongue planted firmly in cheek

Well we better start certifying Hollywood actors, TV stars and rock stars too.  

Imagine if music school competition was the rage so guitarists couldn't sign a record deal until they were 21. ;D  Tongue planted firmer in cheek

I'm with you, man! Think of the benefits to society if the likes of Lindsay Lohan or Justin Beiber had been held up for years in certification procedures, only to fail utterly by the time they had come of age! Children's parts in any professional dramatic endeavor would have to be played by adults when no certified candidates could be found!  ;)

Okay, enough -- what am I doing in an NBA thread anyway? I hate the NBA!

[Ruckus]

I just think the rule is completely bogus and racist but I think most would agree with you.

How so?  I get bogus, but racist?  
I think 18 year olds are babies and tend to lean towards self-centered behavior.  Especially the Lebrons of the world who have always been a star, even in high school.  I am all about the team, not just the star.  

It's the result, not the intent here.  All I'm saying is that the NCAA has an illegitimate monopoly on intercollegiate athletics for profit while helping to deny certain athletes of their actual market earning power through collusion with the NBA in this case.  While I don't disagree that an extended rule would benefit the NBA, in no other employment sector is one denied the ability to competently work when you have reached majority age except for certain professions that require certification because of the effect you can have on other individuals.
EDIT:  My apologies for coming off like a dick here Wiz. ;D  It's just a topic that grinds my gears. [smiley=beer.gif]

Maybe "certification" is the way we should view what's going on -- the effects on impressionable youth by the actions of immature athletes in the public eye is not negligible.

It may be unintentionally racist, but I wonder if the same would situation would be true if white guys could jump.

/tongue planted firmly in cheek

Well we better start certifying Hollywood actors, TV stars and rock stars too.  

Imagine if music school competition was the rage so guitarists couldn't sign a record deal until they were 21. ;D  Tongue planted firmer in cheek

I'm with you, man! Think of the benefits to society if the likes of [highlight]Lindsay Lohan or Justin Beiber[/highlight] had been held up for years in certification procedures, only to fail utterly by the time they had come of age! Children's parts in any professional dramatic endeavor would have to be played by adults when no certified candidates could be found!  ;)

Okay, enough -- what am I doing in an NBA thread anyway? I hate the NBA!

I have no idea who they are.  Clearly I'm not as impressionable an adult as you. ;)

[Crispy]

I'm with you, man! Think of the benefits to society if the likes of [highlight]Lindsay Lohan or Justin Beiber[/highlight] had been held up for years in certification procedures, only to fail utterly by the time they had come of age! Children's parts in any professional dramatic endeavor would have to be played by adults when no certified candidates could be found!  ;)

Okay, enough -- what am I doing in an NBA thread anyway? I hate the NBA!

I have no idea who they are.  Clearly I'm not as impressionable an adult as you. ;)

Ahem...ummm, I recall hearing those names somewhere...may have been some loud youngster visiting the nursing home.

[capt. scotty]

Hey Cap.  I gotta disagree with you on the physicality argument.  That has just been bantered about as justification for the NFL rule but essentially what is going on is collusion between the NCAA and the NFL and NBA.  If you ask me, both the NBA and NFL have a monopoly on a unique sector of employment and implement these rules for the mutual benefit of the NCAA and the two professional leagues.  Unlike hockey, soccer and baseball, NCAA basketball and football are multi-billion dollar industries.  By keeping these rules, the NCAA makes it's money while the professional leagues have a natural developmental league that they do not have to fund because both would be net losses.  
 

I can def see that being the case for football, but Im not so sure NCAA basketball is making more $$$ because of the 1 and done rule. Hell, everyone here says they hate the rule. I guess that doesnt necessarily equate to watching college hoops less, less interest in the sport, etc for every individual, although it does in my case.

....but I still standby the physicality argument to a degree, although your line of reasoning involves money and everyone knows thats always #1.

[capt. scotty]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/LeBron-James-bashes-Trent-Dilfer-on-Twitter?urn=nfl-293762

Talk about timing miscues. This might be worse than Brandon Marshall calling out Sterling Sharpe a couple months ago. Love the Marshall vs Sharpe chart as well  ;D

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Brandon-Marshall-meet-Sterling-Sharpe?urn=nfl-274064

[.Walt]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/LeBron-James-bashes-Trent-Dilfer-on-Twitter?urn=nfl-293762

Talk about timing miscues. This might be worse than Brandon Marshall calling out Sterling Sharpe a couple months ago. Love the Marshall vs Sharpe chart as well  ;D

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Brandon-Marshall-meet-Sterling-Sharpe?urn=nfl-274064

I don't think this is worse than Brandon Marshall. Yeah, Dilfer won a superbowl, but he's always brought up as a shitty QB to win a superbowl. Maybe average is a better word than shitty. Sharpe was legit.  

[capt. scotty]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/LeBron-James-bashes-Trent-Dilfer-on-Twitter?urn=nfl-293762

Talk about timing miscues. This might be worse than Brandon Marshall calling out Sterling Sharpe a couple months ago. Love the Marshall vs Sharpe chart as well  ;D

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Brandon-Marshall-meet-Sterling-Sharpe?urn=nfl-274064

I don't think this is worse than Brandon Marshall. Yeah, Dilfer won a superbowl, but he's always brought up as a shitty QB to win a superbowl. Maybe average is a better word than shitty. Sharpe was legit.  

Whats funny though is the Heat are struggling, and Lebron still hasnt knocked the dirt off The Decision backlash, and he comes out and says something like this. I think its worse than Marshall though because all Marshall said was 'what did Sharpe ever do?' whereas Lebron makes the leap to saying you shouldnt be able to analyze an athlete unless you are better than said athlete. Pretty absurd.

[capt. scotty]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-101224

This was a pretty cool article/project I just read on ranking the best Trio's in the NBA since 1980. BH how good was his equation?

[Tracy 2112]

I enjoyed watching the Heat lose last their opener to the Celtics last night.

And I enjoyed watching the Heat lose the title to the Mavericks tonight!   :)

[capt. scotty]

I feel like Im traveling the globe watching the NBA draft  :D