Occupy Wall Street

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I'll be honest and say I just don't get it.  I hear interviews with people who are protesting that are saying they want to put an end to corporations and greed.  Really?  That's pretty broad.

I live in Sacramento and it seems like the protests are costing our already broke city a lot of money that we don't have and there does not appear to be a clear, realistic goal behind them.

it seems like a lot of people feel that way.  it's hard to imagine what it's going to take to accomplish something.  there are all types of people even ron paul supporters pushing the gold standard: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk

all types of ideas being spread right now like herpes on both side

[Jaimoe]

I'll be honest and say I just don't get it.  I hear interviews with people who are protesting that are saying they want to put an end to corporations and greed.  Really?  That's pretty broad.

I live in Sacramento and it seems like the protests are costing our already broke city a lot of money that we don't have and there does not appear to be a clear, realistic goal behind them.

You gotta look at it in a broader scope. The protest costs Sacramento money for sure, but when it's over it's over. Corporate greed, soft-taxing the ultra rich and the huge unemployment of youth etc... is ongoing with no end in sight, and inevitably monumentally more expensive than a one day/one week sit-in. Making people think about what's actually going on and/or asking questions is a good thing, regardless of whatever the perceived short-term pain.

[lucylew]

 I don't think the "big picture" of this movement has been made clear enough for me to understand. 

[Randall]

my interpretation is that people are finally waking up en masse to the fact that their government doesn't represent them - it represents the best interests of whomever pays the politicians the most money (corporations and banks), and people are pissed. 

Personally I voted for a symbol of hope in the last election, and have been underwhelmed at what has been accomplished.  I blame obstructionist tactics from the right and a president lacking the balls to force the issues and run roughshod over the wants of the opposing party as his predessor did.  I'd like to see him institute single payer healthcare (but the Healthcare industry has the public brainwashed into thinking that the status quo is peachy keen).  But there is enough blame to spread around.  Democrats, Republicans, Tea Partiers - they all are concerned with themselves first, and whomever is writing the biggest checks second.  The public they placate to avoid violent revolution- and it seems that is getting harder every day.

[el_chode]

Articles that say the world is over are just as dumb as the apocalypse people in the fringe religions. I mean at a certain level, a welfare state must collapse into anarchy until a stable system re-emerges. That's not to say it'll be easy and painless or even a revolution. It'll just happen over time. Nothing is permanent. The recession will not be any more permanent than the boom times we went through. It might take time, decades even. Or at least, 20 years. It doesn't mean people shouldn't be scared or pissed or anything. At least FDR put Andrew Mellon on a show trial during the Depression to give people some sense of comeuppance.

Here's my list of things that piss me off:

   
• Protesters protest wall street for playing by the rules they lobbied the corrupt politicians to set up.
• Protestors blindly and violently cling to their ideologies, and by proxy, their binary thought process of "democrats vs republicans".
• They fear the other side so much they can't stand to have them get elected, so they cling to their side fiercely.
• They vote in the same and/or more of the corrupt politicians who promise them more money at election and then turn their backs when it matters most.
• Wash, rinse, repeat.

The only odd thing I notice about the occupy Wall Street thing is that it seems to be an amalgam of tea partiers, socialists, anarchists, and too-dumb-to-know-much-but-protests-are-fun types - groups typically diametrically opposed to one another.

Again, while I do appreciate someone finally taking some stance and causing inconvenience, I wish they were better organized, at least enough to not have a bunch of people prostesting corporations while wearing ironic corporate logo vintage retro tshirts.

[johnnYYac]

Not to mention misspelling "billionaires"!  >:(

[Jaimoe]

The Toronto "Occupy" will be held October 15th. The organizers had a meeting in a downtown park yesterday and handed out pamphlets stating what the protest is all about. Quoting the today's Toronto Star: "young people who are fed up with the current economic and political status quo". Basically, the pamphlet asks a series of questions such as: do you have debt, are you satisfied with the government's response to climate change, do you think the land we farm should be treated with more respect, and have you lost any investments.

Ontario just had a provincial election two days ago and the enviro-friendly incumbent Liberal Party won its 3rd term, but it was tight race and they will rule in minority gov't. However, I think the protest on the 15th is aimed mostly at Canada's out-of-touch federal Progressive Conservative government and big business and banks on both sides of the border.

The Star article goes on to say that you have to admire the spirit and grassroots nature of the movement, even it appears somewhat directionless to some. Organized labour here in the city are watching proceedings closely. Hey, I'm in a union and I'll be watching (although I have no choice since I work for both the Business Network and a 24-hour news channel).

[el_chode]

I heard you Torontoans (is that what's right? Torontoids?) have some other fracas with your waterfront being sold to developers who are related to one of the party's major candidates or something? Like total nepotism at taxpayer expense stuff, no?

[Jaimoe]

I heard you Torontoans (is that what's right? Torontoids?) have some other fracas with your waterfront being sold to developers who are related to one of the party's major candidates or something? Like total nepotism at taxpayer expense stuff, no?

You are thinking about the nearby city of Mississauga, which is actually a giant suburban "city". Their mayor made a back-alley deal to help out her developer son, but it was not on the water.

We downtown Torontonians have to endure two buffoon right-wing brothers running things, one is the mayor. They and their executive council recently got out voted regarding their crazy revision of the 25-year east waterfront plan... and thank the heavens they lost, since their vision was destructive and insane: world's biggest ferris wheel, high-end shopping mall, glitzy office towers, shipping channel and very little residential. The east waterfront master plan is finally coming to fruition (vibrant mixed-use neighbourhoods with shops, transit and parks) and these two idiot Ford brothers are the anti Jane Jacobs (they hate the arts, libraries, zoos, bikes, parks etc...). 

[e_wind]

I'll be honest and say I just don't get it.  I hear interviews with people who are protesting that are saying they want to put an end to corporations and greed.  Really?  That's pretty broad.

I live in Sacramento and it seems like the protests are costing our already broke city a lot of money that we don't have and there does not appear to be a clear, realistic goal behind them.

it seems like a lot of people feel that way.  it's hard to imagine what it's going to take to accomplish something.  there are all types of people even ron paul supporters pushing the gold standard: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk

all types of ideas being spread right now like herpes on both side

I agree with Occupy as a whole, though the lack of organization and unification is making it really hard. The last minute of that video just seemed like a clusterfuck of people who can't agree on what they're fighting for

[Tracy 2112]

The Facebook Occupy Nashville page sums up all the confusion of "protesting for protesting" sake: you have all these messages of organizing and philosophical pining against government, wall street, the military, etc... and on the right side of the page you have ads for Capital One Credit Cards; refresh the page and it's Chase Bank. refresh the page and it's Groupon....

I have very little hope for America changing its course. Other than a catastrophic economic collapse where people are FORCED to change I don't see these protests having a huge effect on anything. 

However, the statement that the guy in the picture makes on the previous page- the one where billionaire is misspelled and advocating for socialism- drives home one important point: Ignorance is bliss.

[el_chode]

I'll be honest and say I just don't get it.  I hear interviews with people who are protesting that are saying they want to put an end to corporations and greed.  Really?  That's pretty broad.

I live in Sacramento and it seems like the protests are costing our already broke city a lot of money that we don't have and there does not appear to be a clear, realistic goal behind them.

it seems like a lot of people feel that way.  it's hard to imagine what it's going to take to accomplish something.  there are all types of people even ron paul supporters pushing the gold standard: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk

all types of ideas being spread right now like herpes on both side

I agree with Occupy as a whole, though the lack of organization and unification is making it really hard. The last minute of that video just seemed like a clusterfuck of people who can't agree on what they're fighting for

Let's keep in mind one last piece of the puzzle that has yet to materialize: student debt.

Yes, you see lots of these kids with +$200k in liberal arts debt. That sucks, and they're unemployed, so they're there. Good. However (and I say this as  a liberal arts major) they're also the ones who couldn't get jobs, and they honestly made a mistake getting niche degrees for that price. And I'm not making fun of niche degs - political philosophy and philosophy took me this far. But I had the benefit of having my parents help me out partially with that part of my education. I'm still in heavy debt for my law degree. The fault there is the university scam where people are trying to make a better life for themselves with a better education - things that should not be burdens on anyone's life.

The shit will hit the fan when enough people with more useful and advanced degrees show up. But right now, they can't. They have jobs, though often just barely. I have interns with me now who have masters in Genetics and Chemical Engineering + law degrees, and they can't get jobs.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

We The People Have Found Our Voice (Occupy Wall Street)

[bowl of soup]

I don't know.  I really think that there is more to all of this; some sort of inter-connectiveness (I think I just made that up).  It wasn't like the general protests of the 60's were all that "organized" and "focused" - there were a million different social agendas driving disperate groups of people to cry out for change.  Whether real change was acheived or not is open to debate, but the power of it all is beyond question.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I don't know.  I really think that there is more to all of this; some sort of inter-connectiveness (I think I just made that up).  It wasn't like the general protests of the 60's were all that "organized" and "focused" - there were a million different social agendas driving disperate groups of people to cry out for change.  Whether real change was acheived or not is open to debate, but the power of it all is beyond question.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interconnectedness  (haha you aren't making words up).  I'm the same way sometimes with words.  dictionary.com is your friend haha.  when in doubt type something that looks like the word you want and they'll give you a list to choose from haha. 

people want somebody to go after, they want something specific to be able to breakdown and criticize.  so far this movement hasn't given anybody anything real to bitch about out.  it's a constitutional right to peacefully protest.  it never stopped the god hates fags people.  it's a progressive movement that is looking for better living conditions for the poor.  with so many people it's easy for the media, bloggers, op-ed pieces to single out the dumb idiots or hippies and generalize what's going on as unorganized but the bottom line is a lot of the people out there have legitimate, personal concerns.  it's their right to protest.  there are protestors protesting the protestors.  it's insanity.  but it's a constitutional right. 

and choder I've heard student loans/debt mentioned more than once by different people involved in this movement.  so give it some time I think that's going to be a big issue that goes with this movement.  who knows, it's interesting and I'm glad to be alive right now to experience so many people being completely fed up and pissed off.  it's the america I've always dreamed about.  maybe one day weed will be legal? 

[el_chode]

Speaking of the protests in the 60s...you know...the same people who sold us out, the same ones who fought to legalize it then kept it illegal, the same ones who fought the establishment and then became it.

Fuck them all. Even if there is student loan reform, it won't affect me. Obama already tried it once, and it ended the subsidized stafford loan. So now there's no non-interest bearing loan for students. And of course, any and all changes will be prospective. There'll be nothing done to change the bad contracts already signed; there will just be changes going forward giving lip service to students while just making loans harder to get.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

Speaking of the protests in the 60s...you know...the same people who sold us out, the same ones who fought to legalize it then kept it illegal, the same ones who fought the establishment and then became it.

Fuck them all. Even if there is student loan reform, it won't affect me. Obama already tried it once, and it ended the subsidized stafford loan. So now there's no non-interest bearing loan for students. And of course, any and all changes will be prospective. There'll be nothing done to change the bad contracts already signed; there will just be changes going forward giving lip service to students while just making loans harder to get.

it really is sickening how much that part of the loan market or whatever it's called squeezes kids.  nothing like starting off your life without a job and 30K-125K+ in debt in a bad economy that simply does not have the jobs anymore.  things are straight fucked, being sensible and peaceful is the only way these protests will progress.   I really hope there is more help to college students.  it's all about the middle class.  but legit solutions, not this rhetorical bullshit romney and the other politicians are pushing.  even obama, that fucker lost major points with me this week when his administration went after the California marijuana industry.  it feels like he pissed in my face.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

should be interesting to what happens tomorrow:

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2011/10/3722467/bloomberg-tells-occupy-wall-street-protesters-clear-zuccotti-park-fr

[e_wind]

I don't see many people leaving. Only the ones who are there for the thrill, not the cause

[Tracy 2112]

Crazy Hippies @ Occupy Wall Street