Occupy Wall Street

[Jaimoe]

That wookie looks like the guy who played Shaggy in the Scooby Doo films.

[peafunk31]

That wookie looks like the guy who played Shaggy in the Scooby Doo films.

;D Matthew Lillard

[e_wind]

hahahahahahaha

[Jaimoe]

Occupy Toronto starts this morning in the Financial District. A tent city is being erected and a timeline when the protest will end is not known. The Canadian economy is strong and we don't have the same financial problems afflicting the US and many Euro countries, but these protestors say they are still concerned about the growing disparity between rich and poor, worldwide, along with rising poverty. We are not expecting another G20 fiasco since most of those idiot rioters were organized hoodlums trucked in from other cities and counties.

[el_chode]

Here's a good article of why I'm less than enthralled with the movement

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/occupy-wall-streets-greatest-strength-is-neutering-it/246671/

[ALady]

Wow, I love that.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

that article is bullshit.  it's a good example of the apathetic people in this country. 
AS IT'S HAPPENING - Occupy Times Square - approx 5:40pm - 10.15.11

I'm assuming that writer wrote the article purely because they thought "which drum circle should I join" was a funny joke.   the article reminds me of some dude whose pissed they've gotta fight a little more traffic in the morning.   a well off, normal person who generalizes these protests as a bunch of hippies.  it's worthless commentary. 

[Jaimoe]

Occupy Toronto is still going on, but it's petering out. Unseasonably cold weather hasn't helped, but I'd say its been a success.

BTW, anyone see the footage from Santiago, Chile? WOW! 60,000 marching in their dowtown hoisting a giant flag. Also, Rome is burning, literally. It's one thing to sit here somewhat smug and think the protestors in NA are a bunch of directionless hippies, but the face of protest in other countries doesn't look like Wavy Gravy.

[Penny Lane]

Unpopular post coming, and Sticky you'll hate me, but these protests are BS (at least the one down here). Protests don't really do anything. It's not 1967. Change comes a hundred other ways, innovation, education, figuring out how to keep jobs here, staying on top of elected officials and knowing who/what you're voting for. There are so many different facets of this economic turmoil, most of it inevitable and further downturn to come. SEC turned a blind eye, a couple of scumbags at AIG and all of Goldman Sachs, brokers persuading people they could afford houses with no down payments. These protests aren't organized and it doesn't seem like most of the protesters understand the bigger picture. The heart of this country is jobs, it's not a partisan issue (tiny parts of it CAN be). The jobs are gone. As a country, we need to figure out how to  keep jobs here. It's not the govt's job to create jobs, nor can they. (take all the failed green initiatives)..One example of how change can come about is how Obama was elected. Learning how to turn 3 or 4 states in the electoral college. Very well thought out, meticulous, grass roots effort with specific attainable goals. (or even one close to this band's heart, the anti-mountain top removal movement).

I'm not upset or angry, I just really think they should all pack up, go home, and start strategizing. There ARE ways to change things, this isn't one of them. I'm not saying ALL the protests, other countries are different. Maybe that CAN work other places.

[e_wind]

Unpopular post coming, and Sticky you'll hate me, but these protests are BS (at least the one down here). Protests don't really do anything. It's not 1967. Change comes a hundred other ways, innovation, education, figuring out how to keep jobs here, staying on top of elected officials and knowing who/what you're voting for. There are so many different facets of this economic turmoil, most of it inevitable and further downturn to come. SEC turned a blind eye, a couple of scumbags at AIG and all of Goldman Sachs, brokers persuading people they could afford houses with no down payments. These protests aren't organized and it doesn't seem like most of the protesters understand the bigger picture. The heart of this country is jobs, it's not a partisan issue (tiny parts of it CAN be). The jobs are gone. As a country, we need to figure out how to  keep jobs here. It's not the govt's job to create jobs, nor can they. (take all the failed green initiatives)..One example of how change can come about is how Obama was elected. Learning how to turn 3 or 4 states in the electoral college. Very well thought out, meticulous, grass roots effort with specific attainable goals. (or even one close to this band's heart, the anti-mountain top removal movement).

I'm not upset or angry, I just really think they should all pack up, go home, and start strategizing. There ARE ways to change things, this isn't one of them. I'm not saying ALL the protests, other countries are different. Maybe that CAN work other places.

I agree with some of this. I think protests can work, but not until things get so bad for the protestors that it isn't worth it any more (Kent state, for example)

Protest can definitely cause change in other places, and Egypt is living proof in 2011.

[Jaimoe]

Penny Lane, I'm assuming you are directing your thoughts on the situation in the US? Whether protests get immediate results or not (more times it's the latter), seeds are planted and things can and will change. It's happening in Syria, Egypt and down the road, Italy and Greece (and probably the rest of the PIGS). There's certainly a growing worldwide discontent, and these types of protests at least put problems up-front and generate discussions. Without them, we can all go back to complacency and grumbling about the government.

[Penny Lane]

Yeah, definitely directing my thoughts domestically. I think they have more of an impact in other countries. I just think seeds are planted better in other ways. Not sure it will bring about results immediately or down the road.

As for countries like Greece, I have no idea where the govt even goes from here or what good those protests will do...in the end, aren't they really at the mercy of Germany? Workers who've had their wages cut or lost jobs or what not..everyone has a right to protest, but I think it's different if it's for a specific reason.

I've talked to a few of the protestors, each one of them said something different...I walked away going..huh?

[Jaimoe]

Yeah, definitely directing my thoughts domestically. I think they have more of an impact in other countries. I just think seeds are planted better in other ways. Not sure it will bring about results immediately or down the road.

As for countries like Greece, I have no idea where the govt even goes from here or what good those protests will do...in the end, aren't they really at the mercy of Germany? Workers who've had their wages cut or lost jobs or what not..everyone has a right to protest, but I think it's different if it's for a specific reason.

I've talked to a few of the protestors, each one of them said something different...I walked away going..huh?

Sometimes protest is the only way the average citizen with a beef can get noticed. Writing a letter to the newspaper and/or calling a radio station is generally an insignificant means, and all media has bias, usually of the conservative variety. One thing protests do is force attention to a certain cause to the Joe Six-packs and the generally ignorant masses. You only need to convince a few. I don't need convincing about what big business are up to and the growing disparity between rich and poor. I think major urban centres are already hip to many of the worldwide issues, but the US is a different bag entirely given how divisive your country is becoming or has become (and I worry the same thing might happen to my homeland down the road). Thus, the timing of Occupy is perfect for NA.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I'm sorry to say this penny but even suggesting that protests do not work is retarded.  suggesting that these people shut up and go home is undemocratic.  the tea party protests worked who says these won't?  why censor the publics voice? 

[Penny Lane]

I think there are other ways to do things, what with twitter, Facebook, local elections, getting musicians on board, making documentaries..I just think these are too unorganized...I'm all for uprising and giving people a voice, I'm just speaking about these specific protests...


BTW Sticky, censorship is telling ME not to voice my opinion...I'm not suggesting they don't have a right to do what they're doing. I'm saying it's not going to achieve much in the end. I relish the fact that we live in a country where people gather (actually that park is private property but the ower is allowing them to be there) in public to protest. That's not my point.

"suggesting that these people shut up and go home" is DEMOCRATIC (not undemocratic), that's my right to express my opinion, just as you have the right to call it retarded...but I'm not trying to censor anything..

edited--and i never suggested that these people shut up and go home, i suggested that they stop the protests, by no means shut up or stop trying..it's almost 2012, Kent State happened 42 years ago, protests need to change with the times as well.

[Jaimoe]

I think there are other ways to do things, what with twitter, Facebook, local elections, getting musicians on board, making documentaries..I just think these are too unorganized...I'm all for uprising and giving people a voice, I'm just speaking about these specific protests...

The gadget age offers relevant platforms for protest, but twitter and Facebook are faceless and even more unorganized than the Occupy groups. Musicians are always protesting and seem to feed off public discontent, so the two are interconnected. Politicians? Good luck with that. If you want a large section of the populace to pay attention to a movie, make a documentary.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

I think there are other ways to do things, what with twitter, Facebook, local elections, getting musicians on board, making documentaries..I just think these are too unorganized...I'm all for uprising and giving people a voice, I'm just speaking about these specific protests...


BTW Sticky, censorship is telling ME not to voice my opinion...I'm not suggesting they don't have a right to do what they're doing. I'm saying it's not going to achieve much in the end. I relish the fact that we live in a country where people gather (actually that park is private property but the ower is allowing them to be there) in public to protest. That's not my point.

"suggesting that these people shut up and go home" is DEMOCRATIC (not undemocratic), that's my right to express my opinion, just as you have the right to call it retarded...but I'm not trying to censor anything..

edited--and i never suggested that these people shut up and go home, i suggested that they stop the protests, by no means shut up or stop trying..it's almost 2012, Kent State happened 42 years ago, protests need to change with the times as well.

they're already doing all of things you've suggested.

1.) they are socially networked out the butt.  twitter, facebook, webstreams with chats, webpage now, etc.  ever expanding.  they have social media dominated.  after all that is where awareness of these protests came from in the first place.  the network news channels haven't taken these protests serious in the slightest.   this is a big deal and the way you can tell is people like rush limbaugh generalizing the entire movement as dirty hippies, etc.   this will not be given the light it deserves by the corporate news networks. 

2.) I'm not telling you to not voice your opinion.  say whatever you want, I don't give a fuuuck.  but who are you to say these, now, thousands of people aren't going to make a difference?  they sure think they're going to and they have spread awareness at the very least, about the wealth gap.  telling these people to pack up and go home because YOU don't think they'll accomplish anything or because YOU do not think they're organized enough is fine but you're wrong.  It's an assumption, you aren't there occupying shit so why do you care how organized they are? and on top of that you do not have the ability to see the future.  would you have guessed the gun wielding tea baggers would have gained as many seats in congress as they did?  I wouldn't have, I thought they were full of shit and then the 2010 elections happened.  there are far more occupy protestors and members of the movement than the tea party.  These people will influence the next election one way or the other.   

3.) the park is private property but last I checked all of new york is privately owned.  the movement already conceded once and moved from their initial spot at that bull statue when they were barricaded out.   russell simons offered to pay for the cleaning of the park so that nothing would get out of hand, but the protestors ended up cleaning it themselves instead.   the main reason I think the cops didn't move in was the city council signed a letter asking bloomberg and his fellow boners to back the fuck down and chill.   so I think the private park bullshit is just another excuse to dissolve the movement. 

4.) telling people to stop protesting is telling them to shut up. 

5.) Musicians have played for the protestors.  Tom Morrello played a short set the other day, Neutral Milk Hotel played a set.   small events have happened but if the past proves anything it's that you can't convince people to vote one way or the other with corporate concert events.  (See: Vote For Change Tour 2004 which pushed John Kerry hardcore and did absolutely nothing for his numbers). 

6.) you keep saying it's not the 60's or it's not this or that and that all things have changed since the 60's.  well you're right, things have changed, mostly for the worse.  Reagan, one of the worst presidents in our history, just under bush jr, fucked shit up sleeping with the banks like merrill lynch and co. during his presidency leading to all the bullshit deregulation.  same with bush and his bullshit policy.  deregulated everything, give corporations as much power as possible.  and now, a few years later corporations have more rights than the citizens.  it's bullshit.  instead of race wars and Vietnam, we've got a top heavy economy where a few percent of the population is all comfy and cozy while the rest of us suffer.   there is plenty of reasons to protest that is why you can't get a straight answer about who believes what.  sure there are the outliers, ala the "save the whales" people and whatever but overall this is an economic protest and the poor is in the right.  these protests are just and necessary.  there is nothing more democratic than protesting for your own rights.   making your voice heard.  and that's what all of this is about, our voices.  the manipulation of the way we live our entire lives from the day we're born until the day we die is a structured system.  corporations patenting gene sequences and all sorts of crazy shit.   

these protests will achieve much more than people want to admit.  especially conservatives who are now realizing they can't trick the public for longer than a couple years.  this is the progressive, liberal answer to the tea party movement.  It's bigger, stinkier, and more bad ass than the tea party was or ever will be. 

I guess what it really comes down to is I can't understand why any person in this country would want to stand in the way of something like this, even if it's all over the place idea wise as to what needs to get done.  it's about initiating a discussion and I think they've succeeded in that regard also.  I hate the tea party but the only thing I've really had against their protests were the guns they brought.  otherwise, who I am to judge?  It's not like this is a Klan Rally.   let them speak, let them occupy the parks, that's what they're there for, public organizing and other bullshit.  new york is gross as fuck as it is, these people aren't going to make it any grosser. 

[pawpaw]

These protests are a year too soon. Agree with them or not, the Tea Party protests put pressure on politcal candidates at the right time and really made an impact. If the Occupy people could organize and vocalize specific demmands and keep the momentum up until next November, that's how they can affect change.

2012 is gunna be ugly.

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

here's a like for most of the available live streams from the various protests going down:

http://www.occupystream.com/

[Sticky Icky Green Stuff]

These protests are a year too soon. Agree with them or not, the Tea Party protests put pressure on politcal candidates at the right time and really made an impact. If the Occupy people could organize and vocalize specific demmands and keep the momentum up until next November, that's how they can affect change.

2012 is gunna be ugly.

2012 will be a fucking bloodbath.   I think they started it at a good time and I think it will be around until the election.   it took them a month to grow from like 150people to where they are now and now it's spreading exponentially across the globe.  the past week or so the movement really has seemed to grown more steam. 

people won't forget about shit like this:
URGENT - Occupy Wall Street - NYPD Cop Punches Female Protester In Face - Do They Want A Riot?