The Most Capable Band

[Spoon]

"My Morning Jacket arrives as promising band with new albums"
By CLAY MASTERS / Daily Nebraskan
November 29, 2004

...My Morning Jacket has gone through great changes over the years. They've had three drummers and their original lead guitarist and keyboardist left the band last year. But this doesn't worry James.

"I'm very excited about this current lineup," James said. "I feel this is the most capable band we've ever had and we're all getting along really well."

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From the Daily Nebraskan, linked on the News tab.
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So do you folks agree with Jim that that the current line-up is the most "capable" incarnation of the Jacket?  I know that Danny learned to play the keys just to be in the band.  And I've heard that Carl's got quite a resume as compared to Johnny, but...

A few things strike me about this quote...

First, it helps Bo and Carl's case for being in the band now, which has always been iffy considering that in the bio it still says that they're just "joining them on the road" and they're not listed under "band members" in the contact tab.

Second, it sounds a lot like the quotes I heard when Patrick joined the band.  I think Jim used to say that he anticipated that Danny/Jim/Johnny/Patrick/Tommy was probably going to be considered the band's "Classic Line-up."  It sounds more hollow this time.  I hate to say it, but my gut tells me we're going to see more line-up changes before this is all said and done.  Especially with the low-level of commitment to Bo and Carl.  

By the way, I don't remember much fuss around the departure of J. Glenn or Chris - is that just because it was a different time in the band's career or were they not very "capable" drummers?  I'm just wondering - I thought they were both great - actually Chris is my favorite of the three, but I'm not much of a "technical" aficionado, if you know what I mean.  

Third, the quote could be taken to suggest that the band was fighting before Danny and Johnny left, which, I guess has always been hinted at; Danny practically said as much in Velocity:

"I don't think it was much of a surprise," Cash said. "When you tour with somebody and you spend 24 hours a day next to them for years on end it gets rough after a while. It could be Santa Claus but you end up hating them after a while." http://www.velocityweekly.com/2004/0128/sound/music.html

But what I'm wondering now is if they were fighting about this being "capable" thing.  Is that why all the line up changes?  The constant touring?  Perfectionism?  Might make it difficult to have a band of friends and a band of "capable" musicians.  

I'm pretty sure that J. Glenn left on his own accord, but I think that Chris got the boot.  Now I read the good-bye letters and all that, but I have to wonder: Did Johnny and Danny get axed?  What do you folks think?  

And might the ax fall again?  And on whom?  

Which leads to my last question: From a technical point of view, how good would you say Tommy is as a bassist?  

Ah, my conspiracy theories have culminated at last.  Don't worry, Tommy!  I hear Kopilot is hiring!    

[sweatboard]

I really think that Tommy and Patrick are fixtures unless something fucked up happens.  I couldn't really imagine anybody any better than those two, I think there both very talented, especially Patrick.  I think Bo is great I'm guessing he wrote the keyboard part to It beats For You, which is really cool.  As far as Carl, who knows?  I'm not really sure how good he is yet.  I do think MMJ is one awesome as hell lead guitarist away from being legendary Taking nothing away from Jim, because he is already an awesome as hell lead guitarist.  I'm just imaging some 15 min. long three pronged guitar freakout attacks.  

[Spoon]

If you're right, then something in my heart wants that awesome as Hell guitarist to be from Louisville and not another "friend of a friend."  

There's got to be a hundred kids from Louisville dying to play in the Jacket, who know the songs and would rock their asses off on stage.  

I'm bored with "professionalism."  Harvest the roots.  Gimme that Dirty 'ol Jacket from those fuzzed-out four tracks on Learning and Sandworm over Memphis horns by Stax session musicians anyday.      

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Hmmmm....how to respond.  :-/

First off, I don't think anyone has been "booted" out.  From all appearances, everyone left of their own accord for other opportunities.  Surely anyone can understand how constant touring can wear on people;  not just the group of people, but the people themselves.  Not everyone is geared towards 300+ dates per year-that even SOUNDS exhausting.

Secondly, like all other bands, the Jacket has and will evolve.  Not everyone is AC/DC and sticks with one formula for thirty years.  As a fan, I have watched it evolve from just about day one five years ago, and it surely has evolved-the sound, the polish, the stage antics, the biscotti being thrown on the crowd...and I have really enjoyed it watching them over the years become the fine unit that they are, capable of just about anything.

I also believe that Patrick and Tommy are permanent fixtures.  Bo and Carl most likely will be too-just hear the eerily sounding harmony with Jim during the past tour, who is going to let that go?  I think this is the "classic" lineup, just like the previous lineup was "classic"...meaning they hit a stride of near sonic perfection.  Hell, all of the lineups are "classic" as I can't recall too many bad shows at all-a feat most bands can't pull off.

As for ditching the horns and going back to the fuzzy four track days, one could argue that the parallel between GBV and MMJ is apparent;  nobody killed GBV faster than Pollard's drinking and the critics who booed every record he spat out that wasn't Bee Thousand or Alien Lanes.  To that I say ballyhoo.  No one can expect any band to carbon copy what some call their "best" work, tweak it just a bit to sound "different"-everyone will say that they are "repetitive".  Only the artist knows what's best, it is their creation.  Even Neil Young's most panned record Trans was an artistic vision-it just wasn't rec'vd well by critics or fans (it's not Harvest!  how dare he!)  

I firmly believe that.  The artist knows what his/her vision is and the hell with the critics and naysayers that just want regurgitated retreads of past glory.  Ultimately, it's a fine line between repetition and reinvention...so far, I can't see any repetition, just reinvention with the Jacket;  each record is uniquely its own being.  Sure, there's similarities with each (it IS rock based music), but that's like saying rye bread is the same as pizza dough since it's all made of flour...each record is a statement, a time capsule of the artists' fears, loves, and motivations at the time.  To attempt to recreate those exact emotions is artistic suicide.

Just my two cents.  Let's just see what the new record has in store for us.  After the EP's and albums, it is a strong catalog to follow, but somehow I think Jim and co. will deliver, just as they always have and will.

[Oz]

I'm bored with "professionalism."  Harvest the roots.  Gimme that Dirty 'ol Jacket from those fuzzed-out four tracks on Learning and Sandworm over Memphis horns by Stax session musicians anyday.      

Well, I definitely agree on that. I still tend to hold on to that romantic idea of a band being a group of friends and no one is replacable, so I get your drift. "we're all getting along really well" sounds a little like "we hired them because they're good musicians and I'm happy to say they appear not to be assholes" and that's not really the 'all for one, one for all'-idea anymore, is it?

On the other hand, MMJ is Jim. The Early recordings discs show that once more. It's his baby. He can release 'Chocolate and Ice' that he played all by himself with no other band members (except for 'It's been a great three or four years', ofcourse) and no one complains. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Sure, there are bands where all the members contribute songs and they're all equally good, but there are also bands that sound crap every once in a while because some band member wrote a crap song that he wanted to sing and it was accepted because of 'band democracy'. I mean, I don't think anybody would have been heartbroken if Ringo Stars' songs wouldn't have been in The Beatles' repertoire. And then there are bands like Bright Eyes, where it's just that one guy that you either like or hate, but nobody gives a damn about who is playing the bass this time. So... I don't know. Only time will tell if Johnny will be missed on the next disc and only, err, his girlfriend can tell if Jim's an asshole for firing them. :)

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

Like I said, everyone left of their own accord, so no one is an asshole for firing anyone, as far as I can tell.  Wow, you guys get hung up on the weirdest things...isn't this like totally old news?  It happened the way it happened.  I feel some deju vu here, didn't we argue this into the ground a YEAR ago?

[Oz]

Oh, I'm not hung up at all and that firing-part was just a joke. I was just blattering about the nature of bands and such. I did make some interesting points, now, didn't I?  ;)

[antoniostrohs]

I tend to agree with Mr.Conaway.Don't think anyone was fired.It is a very demanding lifestyle choice to live on the road as a musician.Especially if you have family and other obligations to worry about.I truly believe Johnny and Danny were just worn out from the life on the road.Just from playing in weekend bar bands I know even that little bit  of playing can were thin,from having to find time to practice and shuffle work schedules.Even small cover bands have personality troubles from time to time.I stopped playing because I wanted to remain friends with the rest of the guys in the band.So I can relate,if ever so small with Danny and Johnny choices.And I hope Bo and Carl remain with the band.Anyone who has saw them in concert truly knows how talented they really are,and will make great contributions to Jim's vision.

[EC]

A few things.

I don't think anybody would have been heartbroken if Ringo Stars' songs wouldn't have been in The Beatles' repertoire

I would have.  I love Ringo's songs.  

To say that you'd like MMJ to get back to their roots, recording four tracks in the basement (maybe that's where he snoozed in the cobwebs?) is like telling someone you don't want them to grow.  Everybody starts in the basement.  Then they get a little money, and try some stuff out, then they get a little more money, and they've evolved as musicians, and try some more stuff out, and so on and so on, and then (if they stick around long enough) they have the awkward years (Dylan, The Stones, Merle Haggard, Emmylou) and then they usually come back in full force, using all of their years of music, and create something better than you ever thought.

If Radiohead stayed the same, we wouldn't have OK Computer, and man, did I ever fight it when I heard they were coming up with a new sound.  And despite where they are now, when U2 came out with Achtung Baby, I loved it, and was glad.  Nobody wanted Dylan to pick up an electric guitar.  

People have to be able to grow in order to get better.  And as fans, we have to allow the fact that there may be a couple of "mistake" albums (NOT now there aren't, but there might be, in the future, who knows, it's possible) and we'll just have to trust that one mistake doesn't mean they suck.  

[marktwain]

On a lighter note, if the new(er) guys are going to stay with the band, they need rock star names like Two-Tone Tommy and Jim James.  Any suggestions?

[peanut butter puddin surprise]

On a lighter note, if the new(er) guys are going to stay with the band, they need rock star names like Two-Tone Tommy and Jim James.  Any suggestions?

well, Carl's obvious choice is "carl hungus" and he must use the Big Lebowski costume like this one:



and as for bo:



 8)

[MMJ_fanatic]

is that a bike helmet :D?  well I think I have heard these guys live together enough to say that they cover the trail blazed by the original line up just fine.  the next cd will show us all just how faithful the group remains to the MMJ model established thus far.  I am not too worried about further lineup changes as they seemed very happy together on the road, but we aren't fortune tellers are we (or are we  ???)...

[Spoon]

As a fan, I have watched it evolve from just about day one five years ago, and it surely has evolved-the sound, the polish, the stage antics, the biscotti being thrown on the crowd...and I have really enjoyed it watching them over the years become the fine unit that they are, capable of just about anything.

As for ditching the horns and going back to the fuzzy four track days...To that I say ballyhoo.  No one can expect any band to carbon copy what some call their "best" work, tweak it just a bit to sound "different"-everyone will say that they are "repetitive"... 

Hey, I was right there with you five years ago, when nobody came to the shows and just me and a couple of friends were up front, stompin' around and raisin' hell.  So I've got a little bit of fan cred myself.

And who said anything about going back?  I loved Chocolate and Ice, for example.  The material was very fresh - really different from anything they'd done before - but the sound had that same dark and earthy authenticity of the older stuff.  

Look, I just happen to like the straightforwardness that I hear in simple recordings.  And I think the music itself is very seperate from the way it is produced.  You don't have to regurgitate the music - and if you need any more proof of that just look at all of the variety that Learning and Sandworm offer.  

But come on, you just can't deny the warmth of those old Library of Congress recordings of blues musicians from the tens and twenties.  That's the Jacket sound to me.  And I think the band was with me on that - why else would they pride themselves on recording in a fricking barn?  

And you can make all the comparisons you want with other bands, it really doesn't matter - there's always going to be some band - look, the Mountain Goats recorded every album they did on the same crapped out tape player - so it can be done, but what I'm talking about is an ethic.  

I happen to think that overproduction and novelties like Memphis horns come off as cheesy, if not ostentatious - I mean, last time I checked the Jacket didn't have a horn section (though I have to admit that I was hoping that the Max Weinberg 7 were going to jump in when they went on Conan).  

And you can say whatever you want about other bands; and this especially goes out to EC...come on Radiohead? U2?  If I thought that the Jacket was ever going to sound like those bands I'd stop listening now.  

Actually, I think Radiohead is great example of what I'm talking about.  Lots of people slobber over Radiohead, but I think that they sound WAY too over-produced and that kills it for me. Two minutes of it and I want to rip the radio out of the car.  OK Computer sounds like it was recorded in a hermetically sealed bubble by a pale boy with no immune system.  It's like the soundtrack to cyrogenic sleep.      

I feel like there's a certain darkness that wraps itself around every corner of The Tennessee Fire and Jim holds his voice up like a candle in it.  At times the darkness is so thick its hard to breathe.  And you're not sure he's going to find his way out.  And that's the charm.  I think production is just another word for squeezing out all the darkness.

tHE DARk

trapped in gasoline, a lizard on a string, no one ever screams any more. its called THE DARK. its not a sunny day for the dark. let in the dark, then you you can sleep and fuck and park. let in the dark, it's not another day for the dark. let in the dark, then you can sleep and move and park. so tight, i can't breathe, gods fingers chokin me, like a prisoner on his knees, beggin won't do a thing for me so c'mon (you can't fight it) people, oh they're my thing these days, they like to swim, and catch them rays. MONEY, dont do a thing for me, im happy now, thats how i be.

it's called the dark.

[Spoon]

And how am I ever going to get to 2000+ posts if I keep making them so long?  :)

I need to start breaking my thoughts up into like 50 posts so I can keep up with you manics. ;D

[Sal Paradise]

Hey now, if my band ever had a chance to record with the Memphis Horns I would do it in a heartbeat! NO matter how cheesy it would look!!! ;D When did the Memphis Horns become cheesy anyway. Saying it's ostentatious comes across as ostentatious ;) I don't think ISM is overproduced at all, sure they could have given it the same feel as TTF but why do that? I think they just wanna try everything they think is interesting to do. You like it or you don't, ofcourse that's up to you but saying they're ostentatious is just, just, just a TOO damn difficult word to use :P

[Spoon]

Yeah, Sal, maybe I am getting a little too big for my britches.  8)  And got a little off on a tangent while I was at it.

The original point was not about overproduction vs. fuzziness or any of that - the point was about working with "capable" musicians, which is why I brought up the Stax session musicians - so, returning to O's point: Do you agree that the the Jacket is just Jim? If you can just hire a lead guitarist or a piano player, what kind of a "band" are you? Do these other guys have a stake or are they ultimately just session musicians for the main man?

I say: Long live the Winter Death Club!  Dirt One Forever!
  

[Oz]

I meant that MMJ started with Jim and still mainly evolves around Jim. His voice and his songs are the trademark, not Patrick's drums. With all respect, ofcourse. I'm not saying if I think that's right or wrong, it's just how it is and that's why he can release 'Chocolate and Ice' without fans having troube with the fact that Tommy's not on it. And I know a lot of, there we go again, U2-fans ( :P) wouldn't like it if U2 would release an album without The Edge and with another guitar player instead.

[Sal Paradise]

No one can deny Jim is the heart of the band, it's pretty obvious. But, I think if Patrick and Tommy would leave now, the band as we know it would fall apart. I really hope they're gonna stick around for a long long time. Bo and Carl are pretty new and if they decide to leave it wouldn't hurt as much. NOt that I would want them too cause they do a great job right now. Anyway, Spoon, I hear what you're saying but there's more to being in a band than just being able to play your instrument and I really don't think the last changes happened because they were easily replaceable. It happened and was dealt with in the best way possible I guess. Sure, it would have been cool if it was another longtime friend from some barn (jk ;) ) in Louisville but that's easier said than done. If it takes a friend of a friend to keep rockin like they do, so be it.

[po]

dear spoon,

there is this crazy thing that happens as the years go by...  people grow up - they change - they move forward - they evolve.

clearly this is a concept that has escaped you.  

how sad for you that you live in a world of five years ago.  and how pathetic that you can't forgive these guys who you don't even seem to know for moving on with their own lives and music.

if you love winter death club so much what do you have against tommy?  he was in that band.  did he sleep with your girlfriend or something?  kopilot is hiring?  you're an asshole.

[EC]

OK Computer sounds like it was recorded in a hermetically sealed bubble by a pale boy with no immune system.  It's like the soundtrack to cyrogenic sleep.

That's very funny.  And yet I disagree.

Yes Radiohead, and yes U2 (the record I was specifically referring to was Achtung Baby, and yes I liked it.)

And as far as the darkness (not the band, I'm speaking about actual darkness)- maybe they didn't feel like being dark anymore.  Maybe they felt like including a bit of summer into their work.  (Just to continue that metaphor.)

It is my opinion that the only person who can get away with solid dark and angst (well into his forties) is Morrissey.  But he mixes is up, too.  I mean, you know, in varying degrees.

And as far as the band's changing of hats, well, you have to figure that new musicians bring new feel to the band.  If they were cookie-cutter players who mastered the songs EXACTLY the same as the old guys, then I doubt they would be interesting enough to play with this band.

If you don't like the "produced" sound, that's cool.  I'm just saying that a lot of bands tend to move in that direction, and I think it's partly from curiosity of all the cool stuff they can get to do.  So OK Computer doesn't do it for you.  

Editing, mixing, mastering world is an artform in and of itself.  I happen to agree with you that generally I prefer a feel that is more homegrown, but that's usually because the more produced stuff sucks and is less honest.  People rely on post production to "fix" mistakes, as opposed to using it to enhance their work.  If the band is artful, musical craftsmen, then, like Radiohead (yes, Radiohead, Radiohead, Radiohead), I can dig it.